Division is not cause by opposing beliefs, it's caused by a persons attitude.

Something I've been thinking about lately - Political stances are not what causes division, it's honestly about people being assholes.

From denying a person their freedom of speech, to preventing individuals from just enjoying life because of bigoted beliefs ( No, I'm not referring to anything in particular, so don't go there. ) - These are not actions taken by reasonable people. I honestly haven't met/conversed with/debated a person , or many people, that could not be spoken to in a reasonable way - I've seen them on tv, and online - But in the real world? People are inherently better than what we see on media.

For example, in Utah - there's a LOT of LDS people, especially where I live... Yet, I've met religious leaders that have good relationships with their gay children, I've spoken to a large amount of people about the legality of marijuana and many seem to believe that medical use, at the very least, is warranted. Regardless of the beliefs and opinions held by some of their superiors, I have found that a large amount think for themselves - Only those that are more weak-minded and need to follow a cause blindly and unrelenting are the kind you'll hear about in the news. ( applying to any side of politics/stances/etc. )

On the other hand, opinion pieces you read about on happenings at places like UCLA do not depict the type of "liberal" I am accustomed to. The closest university to me has hundreds, if not thousands of students who identify as being more on the left side of things, yet... None of them are violent, regressive, loud and unrelenting - I actually have amazing conversations with these students even when we don't agree on something ( Gun rights come to mind, some want more control/even less want bans ) - Yet none of us ever yelled, belittled the other - Ad-hominem attacks were practically non-existent.

Broad brushes do nothing to help us, friends. The real world is NOT to be found on your tv/computer screen.

Go outside, talk to a neighbor - You'll see what this nation is really made of.

Let other people dig their own way to madness.

-Deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

Of course it's their attitudes.

No one can agree on everything, but nice people can get along just fine.

It boils down to friendliness and willingness to respect others.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Exactly - This doesn't seem to be well-circulated, though.

Even those that are less fanatic on each side seem to think their ills might come from the opposite political party, while really it comes from people that are jerks. The loud, annoying, fanatical type.

I wish to spread this line of thinking - There needs to be a place where those with opposing views can have a conversation, hear the other side, talk about things in a reasonable mann.... Oh, wait...

a reply to: deadlyhope

So let me summarize. Unless I believe exactly the way you do and have opinions exactly the same as yours I'm an a hole.

I think the problem our country faces is we do not respect people who have opinions different than our own. At this time anyone who has an opinion different than yours is the "enemy" and needs to be flamed and roasted for their obviously "insane" beliefs.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: deadlyhope

So let me summarize. Unless I believe exactly the way you do and have opinions exactly the same as yours I'm an a hole.

I think the problem our country faces is we do not respect people who have opinions different than our own. At this time anyone who has an opinion different than yours is the "enemy" and needs to be flamed and roasted for their obviously "insane" beliefs.

I understood the op to be the opposite of the way that you took it.
Weird.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Is that really what you wanted to get out of my message?

No, that's not the situation. Here's an example...

I am pro-life. As a husband and father I believe it is completely reasonable for me to find a wife with the same stance as me. It's important to me, and I believe I should be able to apply it to my way of life the best I can.

I do not believe I have a right to apply it to your way of life. If you are pro-choice ( Not sure your stance. ), and believe that abortion is something that is necessary in whatever circumstances you see fit - You are free to either make that choice, or to have a partner that agrees with that choice - If it is important to you, to have that as an option.

We could fight, get violent, or otherwise be assholes about our points of view.

Or, we could live and let live.

a reply to: snowspirit

It's actually very common for people here to think that I'm taking some hard-line stance on whatever I bring up - I'm not sure exactly why. I suppose that I should add smiley faces and winks and such to depict that my tone of voice is non-threatening and kind? Due to the fact that words do not convey tone very well?

Oh well.

All in all, I want to live, and let live.

Individualistic freedom rather than the government dictating which stance is "better"

Outside of this corner of the Internet (where everything seems to involve a political conflict) I have quite a few close friends who are polar opposites of me politically. We don't agree on basically anything yet we have been close friends for years.

The key is that we are comfortable with not agreeing with everything. To be honest that would be a boring life to live. Surrounding yourself with people who are exactly like you in every way? Na I couldn't do it.

There's more to life that just political debate. Go golfing, go camping, go hunting, go to some shows, go to an art museum, get out of the damn house, get off the Internet, go talk to some people face to face, and for christs sake be open to more than one opinion.

If someone has a crappy attitude just eliminate them from the circle. Don't waste your time with dickheads. Same applies to this place to.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Here's my deal, I really like to push the boundaries and deeply question our mentality and beliefs.
Most people think I press their buttons but in reality I'm just trying to force them to face the facts of reality.

Usually they get angry and spiteful towards me, like even just a few minutes ago someone posted a very hateful response to my position "that I don't sympathize with celebrity suicides" for a whole myriad of rational reasons and points. They said the F word several times and condemned me harshly. Made an account just to post that 1 hateful remark towards me for not agreeing 100% with their hardline personality cult ideology.

I didn't start a fight, I just Dared to have a position different than others because I wanted to make a point about how hypocritical people tend to act over celebrities and all that.

You see the key here is that I wasn't really even disrespecting the suicide offender/victim, I was expressing disdain for the reactions of the mindless masses towards such an event and lamenting such an inevitable hypocrisy.

I get that so often in so many places because I DARE to think differently, that there just comes a point where I have to not care what others think about me. I'd like to care, but if it's going to be this contentious and cut throat I think I'll be better off not caring at all what they think - and I doubt they think very much to begin with anyways.

I'm not going to let people's hatred or anger (which is fleeting and meaningless anyways) stop me from being me. I don't intend to offend I just offend with my intent. Me being me is worth more to me than the whole world hating me for it. I'm not a mind slave to random bullies.

I'm tired of people trying to threaten, belittle, or bully me into agreeing with their stupid ideas.
It's always been happening and it always will happen most likely. People have been doing it for thousands of years, always resorting to threats and violence when they don't get their way.

I didn't get mad at anyone, I didn't intentionally make anyone mad. I just wanted to express my feelings too that's all. I have to cut people deeply to show them what's really going on way down inside themselves. I guess it's pretty normal for people to scream at the doctor for helping them, but it's just something I never can quite get used to. It's always disturbing to unveil and discover the truth about what's really inside.

originally posted by: AnonyMason
Outside of this corner of the Internet (where everything seems to involve a political conflict) I have quite a few close friends who are polar opposites of me politically. We don't agree on basically anything yet we have been close friends for years.

The key is that we are comfortable with not agreeing with everything. To be honest that would be a boring life to live. Surrounding yourself with people who are exactly like you in every way? Na I couldn't do it.

There's more to life that just political debate. Go golfing, go camping, go hunting, go to some shows, go to an art museum, get out of the damn house, get off the Internet, go talk to some people face to face, and for christs sake be open to more than one opinion.

If someone has a crappy attitude just eliminate them from the circle. Don't waste your time with dickheads. Same applies to this place to.

People on the Internet tend to show their true colors and become very brazen.

Many people were not educated well or taught manners or self-development skills, so they resort to very nasty comments and underhanded tactics in these internet discussions.

ATS has a really bad mix of these types of people, but it is actually better than most places because there are some rules being enforced around here thankfully.

My main complaint with all debates overall is the high probability that someone will resort to a very nasty putrid garbage attitude and will begin making personal attacks rather than focus on the discussion itself. The way people judge and insult each other is simply unacceptable to me.

Here's an example : I didn't like Hillary or Trump or anyone running for office ok? But to see the way people would insult Hillary or Trumps physical appearances so consistently and often? It was vomit inducing. I cannot tolerate that childish attitude where people do that. At a fundamental level we should never ever insult someone for their physical appearance, I know how much it hurts and I'd never do that to anyone. The few times I slipped up and joined the mockery I really regretted it because I knew what I did was very immoral and immature.

I just wish our society would teach self-development and manners and respectfulness the same way we teach basic reading writing and arithmetic. People just simply don't know how to handle their negative feelings or to process them effectively so they can work them out before they start hurting everyone else's feelings wrongly due to the fact they themselves are the one with the real problem.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Very well said. Both of your posts.

a reply to: deadlyhope

True enough, but when some are trying to get along, and others come in and demand no one disagree, we all have a problem. I watched video yesterday, wherein a guy was holding a sign that stated, "THE RIGHT TO OPENLY DISCUSS IDEAS MUST BE DEFENDED". People were calling him a Nazi, telling him he should be ashamed of himself, and they ran him off the street, while police did NOTHING.



Beyond ridiculous, and I'd bet those same people call those that disagree "fascists".

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: deadlyhope

So let me summarize. Unless I believe exactly the way you do and have opinions exactly the same as yours I'm an a hole.

I think the problem our country faces is we do not respect people who have opinions different than our own. At this time anyone who has an opinion different than yours is the "enemy" and needs to be flamed and roasted for their obviously "insane" beliefs.

Gee, you mean like this? Do you really not see the irony in your post here??

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: deadlyhope

So let me summarize. Unless I believe exactly the way you do and have opinions exactly the same as yours I'm an a hole.

I think the problem our country faces is we do not respect people who have opinions different than our own. At this time anyone who has an opinion different than yours is the "enemy" and needs to be flamed and roasted for their obviously "insane" beliefs.

Which OP did you read because I seem to have missed it.

a reply to: muzzleflash

OK, I will admit that I did find it bizarre that Hillary wore so many pantsuit jackets that all seemed to have the exact same cut that was so unflattering to her and I remarked on it because I couldn't imagine why she would do that.

There are people that very few other people like because of their attitude.
Because of their attitude, they may not have normal "real life" interaction.
The internet gives them a place to be their miserable selves without typical social interaction.

This site has more than a few of these people.

a reply to: AnonyMason

The difference I'd wager is that you aren't discussing things with them on the internet.

You are interacting face to face. When you have to be face to face with people, you are less willing to be blunt with them and even if you are, you have all the cues of body language and tone that the internet does not afford.

You may read my words, but you have no clue what state of mind I am in when I write what I write. Your mind has to substitute those things, and your mind, frankly, will be biased by your personal opinions and feelings about the subjects being discussed. Because you don't know me or see my body language or hear my tone of voice, you can't offset your personal biases with my own cues to know what or where I am really coming from. Ergo, I am as bigoted, or racist, or homophobic, or right wing nutty, or whatever, as *you* think I am and vice versa.

This is how it works for all of us here, and we would be wise to remember that. Clearly, with some people you can tell exactly what they intend, but with others, you should ask yourself if your going off knee-jerked or not.

a reply to: ketsuko

I understand the your interpretation. The main difference is that I am blunt with every one. Especially my close friends.

Regardless of my own personal interactions with friends you do have a point. It's easy to make mistakes when dealing with people on the Internet. It happened to me just yesterday while conversing with another member. Wasn't the first time and undoubtedly won't be the last either.

a reply to: AnonyMason

I just mentioned what I did because I know what you mean about having friends/acquaintances with 180 degrees opposed points of view. The only times we've had trouble with that is when our interactions have become solely electronic (i.e. internet).

Most of the times here I state what I mean to say plainly and there is no particular emotion behind it. If there is, it's a playful tone. Only rarely do I unleash the snark in a truly sarcastic manner.

And I never speak from hatred. I walk away first.

a reply to: deadlyhope

It's actually very common for people here to think that I'm taking some hard-line stance on whatever I bring up - I'm not sure exactly why. I suppose that I should add smiley faces and winks and such to depict that my tone of voice is non-threatening and kind? Due to the fact that words do not convey tone very well?

Same here. Sometimes I try to add emojis, gifs, or "lol" to show that I'm half joking, being facetious, or the such. But my tone is usually still misinterpreted. Meh...

By the way, I agree with your OP. There are jerks & kindhearted people in every demographic. Most people are somewhere in between, depending on the topic. The key is getting people to either focus on the kindness angle or to just agree to disagree.