Could psychedelics become an accepted treatment for mental health problems?

a reply to: Tuomptonite

Could this be another better health outcome for a better price?

This is how our system works-the US medical system is the best in the world at one thing-cost. We are number 30 for health outcomes-Columbia has better health outcomes than the US for a much better price.

originally posted by: Namdru
a reply to: seasonal

Could psychedelics become an accepted treatment for mental health problems?

In a word, yes. Those of us who understand how much benefit potentially exists there, should keep our minds intent upon that happening. The biggest stumbling block is indicated by the words, "accepted" and "treatment". To be accepted there has to be a treatment based on sound methods. To develop sound methods, there has to be sound understanding. For sound understanding, mental health professionals have to be experienced with psychedelics themselves. And to be properly experienced with psychedelics, they have to apply sound methods to their use.

I think you might note, there is a dependency loop in the above analysis. The medical and counseling professions lack a proper protocol for understanding, i.e., to use psychedelics themselves. To use psychedelics at all, one has to have at least a rudimentary grasp of psychopharmacology, not of accepted drugs, but of unaccepted ones as well. There's another hitch -- to develop sound methods, there has to be understanding of psychopharmacology and how that relates to physiology (not to mention psychology). Again, the psychopharmacology cannot be properly understood without using the drugs on people (and for healing purposes, the must also be used by prescribing physicians themselves).

The crux of the problem is, scientists are too materialistic in their outlook, and also lawyers and legislators as well. All this points to the fortunate, or unfortunate fact that healing with entheogens, gnoseogens or psychedelics has traditionally been the province of 'witch'-doctors, shamans and priestesses/priests, and for very good reasons. Science, as we know it in mainstream American industry and academia at least, is a godless, soulless, desolate province of human existence. As much as they want to, scientists will never be able to master the full potential of these substances if they don't enlighten themselves first.

Love everything about your breakdown here! Spot on description of where we are at, are you familiar withthe organization called MAPS?

Nothing new. Look into Sandoz's Sansert.

If psychedelics were effective, Freud would have treated his patients with the
drugs. However, he continued his research and expanded the frontiers of
psychiatry with innovative insights into the physical and temporal
manifestations of the different types of psychiatric disorder - neurosis,
paranoia, schizophrenia, and phobias. Using regression with psychoanalysis,
he even cured hysterics when he visited the hospitals.

Good luck with that psychedelic treatment, on patients who are already out of
touch with reality. Too bad psychotropics aren't the silver bullet.

originally posted by: ThatHappened
If psychedelics were effective, Freud would have treated his patients with the
drugs. However, he continued his research and expanded the frontiers of
psychiatry with innovative insights into the physical and temporal
manifestations of the different types of psychiatric disorder - neurosis,
paranoia, schizophrenia, and phobias. Using regression with psychoanalysis,
he even cured hysterics when he visited the hospitals.

Good luck with that psychedelic treatment, on patients who are already out of
touch with reality. Too bad psychotropics aren't the silver bullet.

Freud was a coke addict and did some interesting things but people like Reich and Jung went on to further the true understanding of our psyche, this is without getting into the philosophies of the East and what their generations of research into the nature of the mind has done.

The reality that has been built up upon the banning of these natural substance is one of absolutely lunacy. The pills you speak of cause side effects that are absolutely shocking. From furthering mental imbalance that requires more medication to the fact that every pill is harmful to the physical body.

We have co-evolved with these sacred substances. You naturally produce the most potent psychedelic known to man and you have the audacity to claim to understand whether or not it would have benefit, not to mention the research that has been done by MAPS and the astounding level of success that has been achieved.

Your level of ignorance will die out, much like the notion that Cannabis is evil.

a reply to: ThatHappened

Good luck with that psychedelic treatment, on patients who are already out of
touch with reality. Too bad psychotropics aren't the silver bullet.

Mental Health like any other complex disease (cancer for instance)... these health problems are multi layered and multi layered...
So -> it is logical to reason that a singular magic bullet to conquer these infirmities does not exist, Neither in fact or in theory


an individual treatment must be reasonably determined and might include rare minerals or elements administered in unusual ways... medicinal concoctions that are one-of-a-kind might be the magical elixir for that particular persons chemical & genetic genotype....

medicine has had It's day, now we must move beyond the one-size-cures-all thought patterns of yesterday...

I feel more 'Spiritualism' is a missing ingredient in health treatments of the modern world

this 'spiritualism' might include the 'other realities' opened by ethnogens & hallucinogens that currently sit in the dust-bin of culture.... sheeze, must we keep the dunce-cap on forever ?

a reply to: ThatHappened

Freud

Jung

I've accepted them as a treatment for mental health problems.

Will they be accepted legally? not with out a fight from big pharma.

I'm actually reading book edited by Graham Hancock called "The Devine Spark"

I just made it through a chapter that talks about a study done in the 60's i believe it was. They administered 30 milligrams of psylocyben mushrooms to a group of i think 20 different people.

The results of the experiment were that everyone of the subjects that wasn't given a placebo had long lasting beneficial mental health effects.

The problem is with psylocyben as a treatment it is usually " once is all you need." Big pharma is looking for drugs that make money, not something that you take one time and thats it.

So people have begun experimenting recreationally with microdosing instead - usually taking less than around 20 micrograms of T&C-25 to get the brain-boosting benefits without the high (it's something of a fad in Silicon Valley right now).

From my thread: Science and the Summer of Love... 2017 Style.

Silicon Valley has tech people using small doses to "stay creative" on their own volition. Attitudes are changing. My question from my thread is, "Will we now have the 'real' Summer of Love"?? Instead of muddy people standing around watching a concert we get tech industry insiders re-imagining the future and the consumers reaping the rewards.

As a side benefit, there is the "all is one" feeling that is a "hang over" from the T&C-25 experience. Can we end greed, fix social problems, and clean the environment, all without government inference? Boy, the Orange Guy would have a twitter spaz out like no other!

If the DEA were at all honest, certain plants and fungi would taken off the list. As would T&C-25. They all have medicinal value.

originally posted by: ThatHappened
If psychedelics were effective, Freud would have treated his patients with the
drugs. However, he continued his research and expanded the frontiers of
psychiatry with innovative insights into the physical and temporal
manifestations of the different types of psychiatric disorder - neurosis,
paranoia, schizophrenia, and phobias. Using regression with psychoanalysis,
he even cured hysterics when he visited the hospitals.

Good luck with that psychedelic treatment, on patients who are already out of
touch with reality. Too bad psychotropics aren't the silver bullet.

so if freud didnt advocate for it then its bunk?
oh ok.
im sure frued didnt advocate for a lot of # that is used today.
ancient(and current) cultures use psychedelics to treat all sorts of things as well as to expand the mind and go on thought experiments......
its just that people in the states are uptight about # so we are not legally allowed to do it

it is gaining traction though....

a reply to: seasonal

Nicholas Sand certainly thought so.

Nicholas Sand (May 10, 1941 – April 24, 2017)[1] was a cult figure known in the psychedelic community for his work as a clandestine chemist from 1966-1996 for the Brotherhood of Eternal Love.[2][3] Sand was part of the League for Spiritual Discovery at the Millbrook estate in New York, has been credited as the "first underground chemist on record to have synthesized '___'" and is known for manufacturing large amounts of '___' en.wikipedia.org...

Sand produced Orange Sunshine, very popular in the late 1960's and a large part of the 2015 British documentary, Sunshine Makers. www.youtube.com...,

During Vietnam, Sand fought for the right for American soldiers to have access to Orange Sunshine. He said he hoped the drug would expand their minds beyond obeying orders, bringing about peace and brotherly love.

American PTB had other ideas, seeking and eventually arresting and imprisoning Sand and introducing the world to Agent Orange.

My view is both naturally occurring and manufactured, these substances do cut through modern fog-mind, fed a diet of marketing/social media/tv/MSM crud, left barely a figment of the fat controllers wet dream. The same fog-mind that accepts Agent Orange is sane but Orange Sunshine is evil and criminal.

There is another currently active Thread here about a study revealing higher intelligence in cannabis users and I think something similar applies to those open to mind expansion via entheogenics.

If only if it was so easy TEOTWAWIAIFF, even today the employee is required
not to use any drug, according to the company's terms of employment, so the
person cannot indulge unless they are high up in the organization and have no
fear of what would happen if other people knew they use weed.

Most of the working stiffs cannot and do not want to abuse or use drugs. Some
companies make sure of this.

They ( Silicon Valley Companies) are giant hypocrites and drug users probably.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Yep, give '___' to veterans with ptsd.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
They give speed to kids with ADHD to slow them down. Maybe if the give hallucinogenic drugs to someone who is hallucinating it works the same???

Lol. Nope.

a reply to: rickymouse

Water intoxication is one step away from death, and it is more a confusional state than a high.

The interesting thing about psilocybin and others is that they can be one dose cures for depression and PTSD in the right circumstances, and the animal models done so far have identified increased hippocampal neurogenesis after psilocybin treatment.
Thats very significant as depression and PTSD routinely shut people down so much that they have no new experiences and have no new neurogenesis-- which is a risk factor for Alzheimer's.

The new information about psychedelics is very promising, as it offers the prospect of much shorter and more effective treatments, with far fewer side effects.

Food choices may make some difference but it is all highly inconsistent.

a reply to: Barliman

Maybe there could be enough of the active compound to cure some mental diseases in one of these chemistries. www.erowid.org... It doesn't have to be fully psychoactive to work.

I really do not know much about these plants, they may be poisonous for all I know. I sure wouldn't be trying these things without researching them.

a reply to: seasonal

I actually have ADHD, diagnosed in my mid 40's, so can speak from experience both as a patient and a health practitioner with an interest in the area.

The stimulants don't really slow us down- but they do make it easy to stay on topic and not get distracted. After you have spent 45 years pickingup after and apologising for your inadvertent errors, that is appreciated.

The stimulants (dexamphetamine and methylphenidate) are actually very cheap drugs (5 cents a tab to make dexamphetamine commercially) and the there is little profit for pharma in pushing the classic stimulants -drug companies have been working hard to get us all to prescribe more expensive alternatives (atomoxetine and guafancine).

However the best any of these drugs can do is mitigate symptoms-- which is not a bad thing provided you don't get carried away with them.

ADHD, however, is a disorder that primarily involves brainstem, cerebellum and basal ganglia- all involved with behaviours that should operate automatically, and it also has elements of clumsiness and minor perceptual difficulties associated with it. I doubt that psychedelics would have any lasting effect on those. (Yes I do know you were making a joke, but ADHD is a common and impairing problem and the jokes really do have the effect of making people over cautious about considering the diagnosis).

The psychedelics seem to work well on problems that operate at the level of consciousness and automatic reactions at the level of the amygdala, and the way they work appears to be through breaking the brain out of default patterns of constructing reality. So the default severe fear response in PTSD can be dissolved.
(It is a bit like the common experience on '___' of looking at a rug with a complex pattern and seeing the pattern shift and change. Given the psychology of perception, and the way we see in detail only through our macular vision and then add in our memories of the rest of the scene from when we were looking straight at it to create an image of the place we are in,
I would say that what goes on here is that our brain temporarily drops its preferred way of assembling visual data, and tries out a few different combinations to see if they work. It is probably the same for emotional stimuli.

Giving psychedelics to someone who was hallucinating anyhow would obviously be a hazardous exercise and there have been no suggestions that this should be tried therapeutically.

a reply to: seasonal

It would be interesting to look more closely at the ones who relapsed.
In humans depression will almost always have some social correlates that help it to persist.
So its not as though one could just do the drug treatment and nothing else-
more comprehensive work would be needed- exercise, pleasurable event scheduling, reviewing issues like debt, alcohol intake.

However it seems that they do more than just relieve symptoms:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"Effects of psilocybin on hippocampal neurogenesis and extinction of trace fear conditioning."

'___' is present in the Limonia family in pretty good amounts. pubs.acs.org...

Next time you eat an orange, pay attention to how you feel.

originally posted by: rickymouse
'___' is present in the Limonia family in pretty good amounts. pubs.acs.org...

Next time you eat an orange, pay attention to how you feel.

Interesting, but it will not have any effect if eaten- in ordinary circumstances.