Acceptance of value. Legal way to discharge debt. No money required.

a reply to: anonentity

Check out how much you are worth, on my last post. Its actually your money, they have it in the stock exchange.

the way i understand what he's talking about that is the money owed to you that you paid/ invested in your U.S. Savings bonds.they make loans on U,S, Treasury Bonds.( some say they also make loans on your Social Security) hell it even says saving bonds on his computer screen(Calculate the Value of Your Paper Savings Bond(s) . not a value on your head. they are making loans on it.

here's the link to the page he was on.
Calculate the Value of Your Paper Savings Bond(s)

man some of the sh@@ people believe from a youtube video, with out even really looking at it.


besides that the guy doesn't even know what BAR stands for. it has nothing to do with the treasury, it's always been about lawyers from the get go.

he said Accredited like it was about finances, it's not, it's about being accredited as being qualified.

a reply to: seasonal


Perhaps she should of asked them under what law was she required to enter a tax return. Their is still an unclaimed prize of fifty thousand dollars, to the person who can find such a law. This is why Trump is handing out Tax relief because he knows the income tax is already being collected illegally, before the government sees a cent of it its all gone in interest to the Federal reserve in interest anyway, its irrelevant.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


At some level the moment you are born, you have a financial value which most people do not realise, you are born a debt slave, the amount is traded because you are a commodity, no wonder the world is like it is.

a reply to: anonentity

at what level is that? can you give us sources that prove that 100%? if not your just parroting foolish ignorant legalese and out right lies that these Sovereign Citizen idiots are selling. granted some can get by for a while with it, but in the end it always bites them on the ass.

Obviously you have to work within the parameters you are given.

There are laws out there, given proper research, that lawfully protect us from using our SS#.

That's what it all boils down to. Folks, you have no idea how much power you possess, being invested and documented, to actually be " free" of the system that binds you.

But no one "believes" it because most assume there's no precedent. Smh...

You have to f#king fight for it. Most don't have the time nor the spine to which the system wins and the status quo continues.

These ideas aren't necessarily wrong per se, its just that it isn't common knowledge nor procedure to conduct oneself in this manner. Hence, the backlash.

God forbid we have a thinking and knowledgeable public...oh my..

a reply to: anonentity


top tip - do this " accepted for value " idiocy on the cockwombles selling soverign citizen // freeman books DSVDs seminars etc - and see if they accept it

Point being that 'technically' the US gubment is in violation of the constitution by letting private banks control money. Only congress is to coin money, coin money being metallic and not paper, which isn't real money, like copper nickel, silver and gold.

So since the Federal Reserve is not the actual Federal government but private banks, this gives the uS citizen the right to rebel against paying taxes...

but go ahead and try, they are so entrenched in the fiat politics of state, you'll just get arrested and all your stuff taken.
Or you could be poor like me and then you don't have anything for them to take from you...

a reply to: intrptr

what about numbers on a computer screen are they legal currency?

you get your paycheck direct deposited, no currency of any kind changes hands it`s just numbers on a computer screen.

you use a debit card or credit card to make purchases and again no currency of any kind changes hands,it`s just numbers on a computer screen.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: intrptr

what about numbers on a computer screen are they legal currency?

you get your paycheck direct deposited, no currency of any kind changes hands it`s just numbers on a computer screen.

you use a debit card or credit card to make purchases and again no currency of any kind changes hands,it`s just numbers on a computer screen.

Yep, however the banks basement vaults are filled with the gold they stole from you and me that backs the notes they print. The gold in their basements, not in our hands. We get the pixels on a screen.

Proof is that one ounce of silver used to be one dollar, now one ounce of silver is many times that value. Thats how metal coins keep up with inflation. Whereas a paper note is the same amount of paper whether its printed as a one dollar bill or a hundred dollar bill. Worth about one hundredth of a cent of paper and ink.

Paper has no intrinsic value other than what we pretend it does, same with electronic dollars.

a reply to: intrptr

Iv seen not paying taxes work ... step one was make less than 15k a year ... that's where I stopped

This is no different than other crimes if ur only worth 15k a year they won't come after u for it

Taxes bills debt money being legal or not ..
Yeah Iv seen what happens if u don't pay taxes or bills ... and I don't need the same thing for debt atleast I can chose not to pay debt shure some imaginary number goes down if u do that
But than again if ur willing to try any of the methods why would u care about a fake number

It does seem that Mr. Shrout was indicted for a failure to pay or file his individual income taxes. However Mr. Shrout is on record as having said that "Aliens told him he would not go to jail", so all seems to be okay and legit

a reply to: anonentity

The first thing that you have to keep in mind is that the US Government is corrupt at every level from the White House to the county mayor and every step in between. With the millions of laws on the books, inevitable loopholes can be found. But the average Joe will not be allowed to use those legal loopholes to interfere with government sponsored theft and debt slavery.

Here's a good example: Robert Kahre vs. the IRS and DOJ

In a nutshell, Mr. Kahre fired his employees and rehired them as private contractors to skirt minimum wage laws. Then he paid them in US Silver Eagles, which is US currency with a face value of $1. This minimized their tax liability. Before doing this, he consulted with attorneys and the IRS. He was told it was all perfectly legal. He even paid the IRS in silver dollars. They didn't complain, they didn't convert the market value of the silver and give him Federal Reserve Notes as change, they just accepted the Silver Eagles at the face value of $1 each.

Later, a goon squad of Federal Agents in armored personnel carriers with automatic weapons rolled up to his place of business and busted down a chain link fence (right next to an open gate) and arrested everyone at the business. They were forced to sit outside in 100+ degree heat for hours with no water while the armed goons started confiscating records. This was all over what was essentially a tax dispute that Mr. Kahre was never informed about from the IRS, even though he told the IRS what he was doing every step of the way.

He was later acquitted of all charges, but the message was clear. When it comes to the IRS taking your money, either you pay or you will pay.

originally posted by: anonentityI know it sounds crazy but its a fact unknown by many people.

Because it is crazy, and is in fact, not a fact.

a reply to: intrptr

Didn`t the U.S. go off of the gold standard so There`s no gold backing those numbers on a computer screen or the paper money.

When you buy something with a debit card only the numbers change no actually paper money or gold is transferred from your bank to the bank of the seller.

at least they try to give paper money legitimacy by printing on it " this note is legal tender for all debts public and private".
numbers on a screen have no legitimacy as currency, maybe they should put signs on all bank computers that say " these pixel numbers are legal tender for all debts public and private"

Income tax is the outright theft of money which was earned by others, in return for their work.

Our government takes our money, while never having earned one penny of it.

It is not right.

Our government is elected by the people, to serve the people. The people have never wanted their elected representatives to steal our money. Tax makes the people servants of their governments, which shows how they have completely twisted the purpose of our governments.

It has now become an absolute dictatorship, without people ever realizing it.


Nobody realizes that income tax is truly an underhanded form of legalized slavery, of all Americans.

Income tax removes about 15-20% from anyone's earnings.

That 15-20% is almost one day of work, per week, for every week, year after year.

If you were forced to work one day, per week, forever, and someone else took all your money, that is out and out slavery.


And we are all slaves, which is absolutely a criminal act

a reply to: turbonium1

Start building your own private roads and schools, start hiring your own public service workers to manage your roads, start hiring your own cleaning services for your school buildings and utilities, make your own military and weapons and hire people to man them, and make your own peace services and transportation services.

You better live completely offgrid and never touch or access any form of public space or service again.

Or pay up.

a " simple " question for everyone on this thread - and others that espouse the delusion :

" tax = theft "

what is YOUR solution ?

hint - please answer the question - dont go off on any tangents

so come on - unless you wish to devolve back to primitive " ever man for himself " barbarism - how are you going to create the framework of a civilised society - with out any taxation ????????????????

and FFS - remember - answer the question - dont attempt to make any strawman argument about govermental missmanagement and waste

for now we are only addressing the fundamental notion of " tax is nessecary " , verse " tax = theft "

becausew - if you argue - tax = theft - i assume that you wish to repeal all taxation - as the classic argument is :

theft = the forced removal of assets - tax = the forced removal of assets , ergo tax = theft - with the unstated conclusion thjat taxation should either not occor at all or be purely volutary

so - the soultion is ?????

i dont like popcorn - but i has nuts - i await the ammussing replies

originally posted by: MuonToGluon
a reply to: turbonium1

Start building your own private roads and schools, start hiring your own public service workers to manage your roads, start hiring your own cleaning services for your school buildings and utilities, make your own military and weapons and hire people to man them, and make your own peace services and transportation services.

You better live completely offgrid and never touch or access any form of public space or service again.

Or pay up.

By and large, American workers kept from 100% of their earnings....before the Civil War.

They said income tax was only needed to pay for the Civil War. Who wouldn't gladly contribute a small portion of their earnings, to end this horrific war??

That was all a sham. Currency has no intrinsic value. The US Government was issuing US currency, back then. They print all of the money, but somehow, they need OUR money?? Sure.

When the Civil War ended, we continued to pay income tax.

And nobody noticed, or cared about it. Not really. Income tax proved to be very beneficial, to Americans, to society, to our freedom, etc. Besides, income tax is only a very minute portion of our earnings!

Income tax then became a federal law, with the 16th Amendment.


To address your point about how it pays for roads, public services, military, etc...

In 2015, the IRS collected 3.3 trillion dollars in total revenue, from 240 million tax returns.

They could pave our highways with pure gold, and it would barely make a dint into the heaping mass.

3 trillion dollars could buy 6 million homes, at half-mil per. Or 12 million condos, at 250 k per.

They don't see how something like that could ever benefit millions of Americans, many of which sleep in alleys, dig into dumpsters behind restaurants, looking for food scraps, and beg for money. Who can barely feed their kids, let alone themselves. Why should a penny of that 3.3 trillion dollars we took from Americans, directly be for the BENEFIT of any Americans?

Spending it on bombs, guns, aircraft carriers, occupying hundreds of countries with military forces, is far more beneficial to Americans, isn't it??

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a " simple " question for everyone on this thread - and others that espouse the delusion :

" tax = theft "

what is YOUR solution ?

The same way the government used to finance itself before income tax: tariffs on imported goods.

Considering we import just about everything these days, it would provide plenty of revenue for things that the government is supposed to be doing. Maybe not enough for things the government shouldn't be doing. We just have to set priorities. Which is more important, maintaining our infrastructure or maintaining military bases all over the globe? Handing out foreign aid or feeding poor people in this country? Do we really need the NSA spying on everyone in the country?

Additionally, the higher costs of imported goods would spur America back to manufacturing. It would level the playing field for American companies to compete with the prison and slave labor used by other countries. If American made cell phones and cars cost as much as their Asian counterparts, people will buy American because their jobs depend on it.

a reply to: ignorant_ape


Unless basic human nature has changed over the last few thousand years, I find it strange that at the present time, that I can buy a useful product with some thing that has no intrinsic value. The fiat money I use is totally reliant on a belief system, we all know what happens to belief systems. As silver and gold has been removed from money, and the belief system replacing it. Now earning... that is exchanging my hours of hard work, and then storing my life time of hard work in someone else's belief system, requires a leap of faith that only a fool would make. Silver Gold and land, are still the only thing worth having, that's why most of us haven't got any of them, because these hard assets are all owned by someone else.