20 new science papers find climate driven by solar changes

a reply to: Teikiatsu

So this is earth-based monitoring, which we know is skewed in the last 50+ years by urbanization.

Urbanization affects solar output?

originally posted by: mersaultdies
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Then there is the strange behaviour of our Sun. Declining solar activity linked to recent warming The Sun may have caused as much warming as carbon dioxide over three years. Quirin Schiermeier An analysis of satellite data challenges the intuitive idea that decreasing solar activity cools Earth, and vice versa. In fact, solar forcing of Earth's surface climate seems to work the opposite way around — at least during the current Sun cycle. Joanna Haigh, an atmospheric physicist at Imperial College London, and her colleagues analysed daily measurements of the spectral composition of sunlight made between 2004 and 2007 by NASA's Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment (SORCE) satellite. They found that the amount of visible light reaching Earth increased as the Sun's activity declined — warming the Earth's surface. Their unexpected findings are published today in Nature1. The study period covers the declining phase of the current solar cycle. Solar activity, which in the current cycle peaked around 2001, reached a pronounced minimum in late 2009 during which no sunspots were observed for an unusually long period. ... Contrary to expectations, the net amount of solar energy reaching Earth's troposphere — the lowest part of the atmosphere — seems to have been larger in 2007 than in 2004, despite the decline in solar activity over that period. ...

Here you are referencing work that supports the DECREASE of solar activity warming earth.

If this is the case, then why did the INCREASE of solar activity prior to that also warm earth during the 20th century?

Perhaps the increase in carbon in the atmosphere makes more sense as the primary driver of climate change?

My theme is MAGNETIC POLE SHIFT is changing our climate. Temps are NOT moving enough to be outside of statistical data error calculations used by people like me.

Many factors are NOT being considered for a very dynamic situation and we simply are just barely smart enough to understand any thing collectively speaking . We will understand this perhaps when we get to a Level One Civilization as described by Dr. Kaku.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Teikiatsu

So this is earth-based monitoring, which we know is skewed in the last 50+ years by urbanization.

Urbanization affects solar output?

Nope it doesn't, you are correct Phage.

ETA


The data collected about the Earth on the other hand , is what is a least a little bit skewed. How bad is still too dynamic to ascertain.

originally posted by: mersaultdies

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: mersaultdies

It should be noted that 1998 was a very strong El Nino year. Using it as a starting point might be considered cherry picking.
Try using 1997, or 1999.

ElectricUniverse: To ensure that you aren't cherry picking dates why don't you take an average of the (average) temps from years around your start and finish points. That would ensure that your results are less skewed.

For 1898 do you know the temps for 5 years either way?
The same for 1998?

That way the strong EN mentioned won't be responsible and you want to present an accurate picture, right?

Or even, change the years of your first comparison from 1897-1997 or something else analogous?

Can't wait to see your findings.

Truly, we do ourselves a big disservice to not go all the way back in geological records that suggest huge cyclical swings in temps and magnetic pole shifts. We can't talk about a short window of 2-3000 years and be seriously looking at the entire data set. We did not live then but Archaeology studies and Geological formations suggest we are not going to be able to stop it if it gets brutally cold or tremendously warmer than today. When our Sun expands, as it is predicted to do in what I hope is a very distant future, there is likely no living anything on the Earth and maybe not in it either.

a reply to: Charlyboy

Thank you for your honest and sincere reply I do really appreciate it. In fact, I wish more people had the amount of humbleness that you display because I believe it is a very essential trait to have, not only in the sciences but in everyday life as well.

How much data we have does some to present some challenges.

What was the actual temperature in the 1920's, huge portions of the world had no weather monitoring stations?

a reply to: D8Tee

Obviously the point you are trying to promulgate is incorrect.

The Earth is a closed system in so far as it atmosphere and adding CO2 to the planet? Its like pouring 30 gallons of water into a kitchen sink at once and not expecting it to overflow. Those in a position of power today descendants of those who where placed in a position of power to all the technology related to the production of Oil. Upon the scale of what in reality is a World industry and to be clear is beyond any boarders for a great many things.

The patents that specifically relate to oil and control of it. Are the families of individuals who took control of the world economy, when Kings and Queens where replaced. This of course would have been the families who were running things at the times of all these Revolutions. But at scales where they actually interacted in what today we call Civilians but then essentially were called Peasants.

As far as I am concerned you can cite whatever you wish to, in relation to what scientist claim supports your position.


Based upon my background its not really relevant realistically. Your implying that the reason for global warming is Extraterrestrial.

Where in reality there are literally 100 0f thousands of facts that are well established that make clear that Terrestrial conditions. Are Primary in every sense of the "word" to what is the proverbial "engine" to what effects the Atmosphere
on Earth.

In relation to our discussion I disagree the preponderance of evidence offers clearly that you have to be wrong.

And as much as you clearly feel that I am a pawn of Elite?

To be sincere and in so far as this discussion I think you and your compatriots are mistaken.

Any thoughts?

a reply to: Justoneman

Now that post is the perhaps the best summation of the situation we could hope to read. Thanks for your contribution to this thread. Knuckleheads abound and the comments earlier about Kashia's apparent emotional reaction are spot on IMHO.

IMHO you are the one who's being gullible.

a reply to: Kashai

Obviously the point you are trying to promulgate is incorrect.

The analysis of Cooks paper which I posted comes from his own data.

The patents that specifically relate to oil and control of it.

What patents? Source please.

As far as I am concerned you can cite whatever you wish to, in relation to what scientist claim supports your position.

I wasn't looking for your approval or permission but thanks for granting it.

Based upon my background its not really relevant realistically. Your implying that the reason for global warming is Extraterrestrial.

When did I say that?

And as much as you clearly feel that I am a pawn of Elite?

huh? How you arrive at that conclusion?

To be sincere and in so far as this discussion I think you and your compatriots are mistaken.

I kinda figured that part out already.

Any thoughts?

It's been a cold April. Globally.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Justoneman

Now that post is the perhaps the best summation of the situation we could hope to read. Thanks for your contribution to this thread. Knuckleheads abound and the comments earlier about Kashia's apparent emotional reaction are spot on IMHO.

IMHO you are the one who's being gullible.

BEST LAUGH I've had all day thanks... YOU been drinking?

a reply to: Justoneman

Myself Laughing Out Loud in so far as your last commentary.

To be Sincere....

I could not give the Hind End of an Overweight Ratus as to your opinion on this topic.

Grow up

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Justoneman

Myself Laughing Out Loud in so far as your last commentary.

Could not give the Hind End of an Overweight Ratus as to your opinion on this topic.

Grow up

Strange how the same old attack attack stuff I am getting from the AGW team is becoming boring. Read the papers and you WILL know the truth. Keep spouting the IPP crap and you will be forever in the tank for liars. About all I have left to offer you. IF you study you will have a chance. IF you just attack personality you aren't going to have the veracity needed to be successful in debate.

At 58 being in this field of work for over 30 years I find I have to draw it out carefully just to begin to get the facts presented for those who would not see for themselves. You can do better, will you?

a reply to: Justoneman


If you actually had written any of these papers then it would actually make sense these comments could be construed as a personal attack against your position. Otherwise that you take personally to my commentary to the extent that you define it as a personal attack is complete BS.

That you believe that the Oil and Coal industry is acting in the best interest in the survival of the Species? There are words that I could use but the are not allowed in this forum.

There exist a mentality among the Elite that relates to Civilians pretty much the same way as if the correct term for them was Peasants (in refection to current stereotype's that applies to that term).The difference is that Countries no longer relate to recourses economically as individual countries.

As far as these issues being "Old" that is irrelevant.

a reply to: Justoneman


I hope you do not mind that I talk to you this way.

If you like I can go all formal on you but IMHO it would not be as much fun

a reply to: Kashai

The patents that specifically relate to oil and control of it.

What patents are you talking about?

a reply to: D8Tee



The Bush family who controls Shell, The Russian Aristocracy currently under the Control of Vladimir Putin. The Members of OPEC and pretty much anyone else who is knee deep investment wise.

Seriously the first electric cars were built in the mid-19th century.

Here is the modern version...

www.tesla.com...

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: D8Tee



The Bush family who controls Shell, The Russian Aristocracy currently under the Control of Vladimir Putin. The Members of OPEC and pretty much anyone else who is knee deep investment wise.

Seriously the first electric cars were built in the mid-19th century.

Here is the modern version...

www.tesla.com...

You mentioned patents that specifically relate to oil and control of it.

What do you mean, patents for oil wells?

a reply to: D8Tee


Oil wells. But as far as absolute legal control of this industry?

a reply to: Kashai

Can I have an example of some of these patents, cause over here there's many companies all drilling those holes in the ground.

a reply to: D8Tee



Where is over here?

If you looked into who actually ran those companies you could find that they schedule golf as well as other activities together.