Stop sending your kids to college and stop going to college, Why the Economy Sucks Exhibit B

a reply to: kaylaluv

I get what you're saying and I think it's a multifaceted problem. The price of college is such that it just doesn't make economic sense right now for many jobs. If you've ever read my thoughts on the matter, my opinion is that if a job requires college it needs to be paying 40% of the median wage as a starting point or more. At other times I've said no one should ever accept any job that pays less than $26/hour (the purchasing power of minimum wage in the 50's converted to todays dollars).

I also see a lot of people who seem to have the opinion that a 6 figure job is supposed to be the reward for a productive career towards the end of that career. Again though, I just don't agree. This has a lot to do with my field, but within 2 years out of college I think one should be at 100k. Many companies start people at 100k with no prior experience... but that's only in certain cities in certain fields.

Overall, I think that part of the problem is that people have unrealistic expectations because of a select few fields, as well as a media that portrays everyone being wealthy. But I do think there's an issue with many fields not paying enough as well.

In the end, I think people care too much about money. If you can meet your daily expenses and have a comfortable life, then enjoying your job is more important than anything else. Of course, I recognize that not everyone can meet their daily expenses and that's a real issue.

Edit: And I should add, 100k doesn't mean what it used to. Purchasing power and inflation are very real influences on just how far a paycheck goes. 100k in 2007 is the same as 140k today. If someone hit 100k today at the end of a 40 year career, by inflation their salary is only as good as $24,000 when they started and by purchasing power it would only be worth about $18,000.

6 figure salaries aren't some lofty goal anymore. While as an income percentile it's still pretty high, in terms of how great a salary it is... it's not really all that great anymore.

a reply to: schuylersee thats the problem. kids take courses that they a .think are easy. or b. that they think is cool. instead of c thats really hard. or d. that is a field that is actively looking for workers..
case in point i have a friend who won a full ride scholarship to ecu based on him playing football for them after he got to school he decided not to play football so they told him he would have to pay so he got a loan and his moms helped him pay on it. he decided to major in public speaking because he just knew he was going to be the next big time rap star.when he graduated with his degree he found that it was not worth two piles of fresh manure he currently works at walmart as a stocker and at a fastfood restaurant. what he needed was to listen to me when i told him one play ball fool you getting a free ride use it and major in something that could be used for a job later if nfl did not call he told me i was full of crap and i didn't know what i was talking about. guess what i was right.

a reply to: toysforadults




what I would like to see is better guidance counseling at the
high school level, with programs that work with industries in the area
with work programs and offer a path to apprenticeships.
I am a Journeyman Machine Repairman and there are not that many of us around these
days and with automation exploding they are going to need them. Collage is not for everyone
some people like to get ahold of something and make it work, its not a really bad living, not getting rich but raised 2 children comfortable. My 27yo son is a Plummers apprentice.


Edit to add; My education was paid for by the company I worked for and had a full time job to boot.

a reply to: kaylaluv

One of the issues I see nowadays is that young people want instant gratification. They want to come out of college making six figures. In my day, it was understood that it would take years of building up experience to get to that point.

I think simply covering the basic necessities is very hard for a lot of these young people hence why they are rioting all over the world.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: toysforadults

Everything that can be exploited is being exploited. Medical insurance-property tax-public schools always need more$$S-and of course colleges are designed to get the absolute most $$$$ out of people (18-19 years old) who have no idea of the sh-storm they are getting themselves into.

Let's face it-every single thing that is required to be "successful" is pegged at 7,000 RPM and the engine is about to blow. If "they" can milk you for it they are. I hope this all works out, but.....

I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be allowed into college until you're 25 or older and have some life experience. 18 year olds are completely clueless, and really don't understand debt, or what they want to do in life.

I started college when I was 17 years old. The 4 years prior to that, we farmed on a hog farm.
So, when I started, I last 6 months before getting banned from the dorms and dropped out because of partying.

After a year and a half of odd construction jobs and fast food jobs, got my head on right , worked full time in the day, went to night school. Took me three years to get that degree.

My daughter is 18 years old, and is putting off college for a year or so to get right in the head. She delivers pizza on the beach and hope either she pursues a career in as a therapist or meets some rich nice guy. Just as long as she is happy.

The problem is, if you don't know what you want to do career wise, then you can't build up to that and define yourself as such. That's the real key to obtaining work now a days, catering yourself to the job you want. It's going to mean taking an intern position or working for lower pay. Hell even working volunteer status can be a good avenue.

I was denied the G.I. Bill after paying into it, and honestly it was the best thing that can ever happen. Because it forced me to figure out the scam of college fast, I taught myself all I know today and raised a family on odd jobs and so forth. But now, I field multiple job offers for my position, I can choose where I want to work instead of struggle to get there.

Prepare for your future and it will be prepared for you.

a reply to: darepairman

Maybe it's just my screwed up way of thinking about things, but why hold a job that doesn't provide upward class mobility? You said it yourself, you're not getting rich. If you're just treading water in your job, why encourage anyone else to follow the same, or a similar path?

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: schuylersee thats the problem. kids take courses that they a .think are easy. or b. that they think is cool. instead of c thats really hard. or d. that is a field that is actively looking for workers..
case in point i have a friend who won a full ride scholarship to ecu based on him playing football for them after he got to school he decided not to play football so they told him he would have to pay so he got a loan and his moms helped him pay on it. he decided to major in public speaking because he just knew he was going to be the next big time rap star.when he graduated with his degree he found that it was not worth two piles of fresh manure he currently works at walmart as a stocker and at a fastfood restaurant. what he needed was to listen to me when i told him one play ball fool you getting a free ride use it and major in something that could be used for a job later if nfl did not call he told me i was full of crap and i didn't know what i was talking about. guess what i was right.

I'm no stranger to hard classes. Sometimes they're really useful, and sometimes they're pointless... just like the easy ones. In any major though, you should always be learning something useful. Whether that's how to read and write, how to reason, about the world in general, or something useful to the types of jobs you want to do in life.

It's been my experience that most classes contain something useful, only a handful are really useless... and even then I've found it's more an issue of individual career tracks inside of a major than the information itself not being any good.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: darepairman

Maybe it's just my screwed up way of thinking about things, but why hold a job that doesn't provide upward class mobility? You said it yourself, you're not getting rich. If you're just treading water in your job, why encourage anyone else to follow the same, or a similar path?

Because sometimes it's not about money, but what the job offers you in those little daily experiences. I wouldn't encourage anyone to get into the tourism industry (hotels and the like) expecting to get rich. But it's a great way to expand your world view if you don't have the desire or ability to go out & explore the world yourself. My income wasn't all that great, but frankly, the reward of interacting with & learning from the foreigners vacationing here on a daily basis was well worth it, and thus to me was something that a fatter bank account can't rival.

a reply to: schuyler

You nailed it. The real problem, as you say, is that once upon a time, if you weren't pretty bright you didn't get accepted to college in the first place. And you certainly didn't graduate. Now literally anyone can get into SOME college, and provided you show up for class pretty much anyone can make it to graduation and come out with a degree. That means that where once a college degree meant you were one of the best and the brightest, now it just means that you were willing to go into debt and put in your X number of hours sitting in the classroom...whether you learned anything or not.

a reply to: Aazadan
Well, I don't consider 90-100K per year with 7 weeks vacation treading water but as I said you wont get rich but live a comfortable life as I see it, and there are chances for advancement if you choose to go that path.

a reply to: Nyiah

I agree with you Nyiah, I was just trying to make the point that there are other options than collage

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: Nyiah

I agree with you Nyiah, I was just trying to make the point that there are other options than collage

There are absolutely other options than college. It all depends on what your personal and/or professional goals are. I don't think anyone should be shamed for not going to college, but I don't think anyone should be shamed for getting a liberal arts degree either.

I got a liberal arts degree and I was making more than some people who didn't go to college, and less than other people who didn't go to college. I just followed my own personal/professional goals and I did alright.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Just a question, how much of that degree do you use in your line of work? Not an attack, but just an honest question.

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: kaylaluv
Just a question, how much of that degree do you use in your line of work? Not an attack, but just an honest question.

Right now I am staying at home while homeschooling my high school-aged daughter. I have used lots of things I learned in college to teach her, mostly critical thinking skills.

When I was in the workforce, I used my critical thinking skills that I picked up in college, which I did NOT learn about at all while in high school. In my high school, as long as you could memorize, you would make an A. I struggled in my first couple of years in college as a result of my poor high school education.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Good for you, but was it worth the tuition you paid?

originally posted by: darepairman
a reply to: kaylaluv

Good for you, but was it worth the tuition you paid?

Since my parents paid for it, you might ask them that. Since it made me a better person than I was and I became financially independent, I would think their answer would be yes. Keep in mind I went to a public school (University of Houston) which wasn't very expensive compared to the Ivy league or private universities.

Surely if USA spent less $ on wars and more on education the cost to get a degree would not be so high?
But oh I forgot, most of you love your rotten capitalism and all the wars that are caused by it.
You can't have both.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Thanks for the replies.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If all parents would simply do what you are, even if it was on the side of their public schooling, how much better off would kids in general be as they grow into adulthood.

What I think is the problem isn't a school issue as much as it's a society issue and the break down of communication between parent and child.

What we call a family isn't as it used to be,

More families need to not just eat and talk together but parents need to actually parent and teach their kids what the world is now, how it differs from their youth and what they can do about the present situation to get ahead and be all they can be, in civilian life.

Too many parents and not enough mentors leads to a misinformed population.