The two Koreas - Education thread

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: markosity1973
I'm not a watcher of videos. Do they say much about the Chinese element in the situation? How when the United Nations forces pushed forward into the north, it was the Chinese army that responded and pushed them back again? How Douglas MacArthur speculated too recklessly about the need to take the war direct to the Chinese, and had to be sacked?
That is the kind of history which we don't want to be repeated.

Yes, the Korean lady mentions that is why there was an armistice signed. Because the POTUS of the day did not want to use Nukes against the Chinese for fear of starting WW3 only a few short years after WW2 had ended.

We didnt have to use nukes but didn't want to go on a full war footing against China. Russia was also threatening. Also remember the context of NATO and america allowing Russia to take over east Europe. It was that or go right into WWIII so soon after WWII. For all the concern we showed these nations during WWII they really didn't give a crap what we thought after the war was over.

a reply to: markosity1973

I have noticed in many a thread about the rising tensions about North Korea that most people have absolutely no idea what North Korea is really about, what South Korea wants and how the USA fits into all of this.

Korea was divided after WWII by the west so they could maintain a military presence on the Asian continent.

The southern portion of the Korean peninsula is occupied by the US military to this day. Recently installed THAAD missile launchers and a Carrier "Strike" group have also increased tensions in the region. US Bully antics, throwing its superpower weight against hapless sovereign nations, as usual.

a reply to: intrptr


When China is upset at NK you know where the problem actually lies.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: intrptr

When China is upset at NK you know where the problem actually lies.

'China' is the real object. Korea is a stepping stone, like Syria is for Iran, like Ukraine is for Crimea, etc.

Lets remain in touch with the actual Geo-Strategic objectives and not be fooled by Geo Political ones.

a reply to: intrptr

So if China knows they are the actual target, and even they are not protecting NK and defending them, it must be REALLY bad. You just opened my eyes to just how much at fault NK must really be.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It was the plan during the cold war...then it ended...then China got rich...then globalism died and islands starting to pop up in the ocean.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: intrptr

So if China knows they are the actual target, and even they are not protecting NK and defending them, it must be REALLY bad. You just opened my eyes to just how much at fault NK must really be.

Blaming the victim, again.

China did defend Korea last time. They will again, too, if the uS military s stupid enough to try that again, let alone open a whole other front.

Anyone else reading this can begin to make the connection with the Geo-political term, "Asian Pivot".

Lol, dumb as dirt, didn't learn anything from German mistake of opening to many fronts during WWII.

Go head on, while we are burning more of our reserves, the Chinese and Russians will be building theirs and waiting...

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

At one time maybe, not today.

a reply to: intrptr

If the US' enemy China is blaming NK why shouldn't they be blamed?

a reply to: markosity1973

There is guy named Myers who stated that's it's possible North Korea can take control of South Korea not by war but peacefully

The stars are aligning very nicely for the strategy [Kim Jong-un] inherited from his father. Just as North Korea is perfecting its nuclear weaponry, China has acquired the economic power to punish South Korea for improving its missile defenses. Opinion polls in the South now strongly favor the left-wing presidential candidate Mun Jae-in, who in 2011 expressed hope for the speedy realization of a North–South confederation. If he or anyone else from the nationalist left takes over, years of South Korean accommodation of the North will ensue, complete with massive unconditional aid.

This went on under George W. Bush, and the alliance survived. Donald Trump, however, is much less likely to allow an ostensible ally to subvert UN sanctions while paying tributary visits to Pyongyang. And Kim Jong-un knows this. He knows that whatever security guarantees Trump gave to Seoul were made to the current conservative administration only. So Kim Jong-un has a better chance than his father did of pressuring the alliance to a breaking point. With China’s support he can pull a left-wing South Korean administration in one way while pushing the Americans in another.

Having lived in South Korea for the past 15 years, I don’t share most Americans’ confidence that it will always choose America over a North-supporting China. My own impression—bolstered by the ongoing controversy surrounding the stationing of the THAAD missile defense system—is that a growing number of South Koreans would rather see their state’s security compromised than risk their own prosperity.

Here's an ominous threat from Fat Boy's granddaddy.

As Kim Il-Sung told his Bulgarian counterpart Todor Zhivkov in 1973, “If they listen to us, and a confederation is established, South Korea will be done with.”

freekorea.us...

Now before you say it's impossible, Myers stated in another article that South Korea have been infiltrated by Ultra Nationalists that want to establish a Korea ruled under them and they admired North Korea due to their fascist tendencies.

If people in the West find this scenario almost as ludicrously improbable as the other one, it is because they have always overestimated South Koreans’ loyalty to their own republic and their hostility to the North. For a long time I made this mistake myself. In 2009 I was sure the DPRK would soon push Seoul and Washington too far, resulting in a punishing retaliation that would start a process of regime collapse.

I was right about the increase in North Korean belligerence, wrong about everything else. Had anyone told me that the Kim Jong Il regime would be able to torpedo a South Korean naval vessel, killing 46 sailors, and then bombard Yeonpyeong Island, killing 4, without suffering any serious retaliation from the Lee Myung Bak administration, I would not have believed it. My mistake lay in not realizing that moderate South Korean conservatives do not identify much more strongly with their republic than the left-wing does. They too, being pan-Korean nationalists at heart, will get angrier about Japanese claims to Dokdo than about their blood-brothers’ attack on an actual, populated island.

This is hard to understand without knowing the warts-and-all history of the South Korean protest movement, to which even many of today’s ruling party members belonged in their youth. Alas, this remains a taboo topic in Korean Studies. In the West, researching it would bring one into conflict with the dominant academic orthodoxy, according to which the military dictators’ allegations of North Korean subversion of the opposition were almost wholly false.

For our part, we must at least stop acting as if the only motive for North Korea’s armament too preposterous to discuss were the one that the country has reiterated, and acted in accordance with, for the past seventy years. Our initial response to 9/11 was to reduce it to a protest against U.S. support for Israel. Only recently have we begun to understand that the jihadists quite literally want the whole world. It is wishful thinking to assume that the ultra-nationalists in Pyongyang, who are far better armed than Islamic State, do not at least want the rest of their ethnic homeland.

www.nknews.org...


He explains that it was deeply rooted in Korean Nationalism and that it has Nazi like tendencies

He is currently researching how pan-Korean nationalism undermines state patriotism in South Korea. Successive Seoul administrations have neglected to inculcate pride in the republic as a state entity, Myers says, instead equating it with the Korean race: “This is no problem when you have a nation state like Japan or Denmark, but is a problem when you have a state divided.”

This explains why, he continues, there were no mass protests against last year’s North Korean attacks. Moreover, the issue impacts beyond the strategic space: It also hinders South Korea’s globalization. So Myers won’t be departing Korea quite yet? “I want to be here for unification,” he says, though he warns that it could be cataclysmic. “Ultra-nationalism is an appealing ideology — the Third Reich fought to the end, even sending their children into battle,” Myers muses. “We should not underestimate its appeal.”

That impression was reinforced on a trip he made to North Korea in June. Driving from Pyongyang to Wonsan on the country’s east coast, he was able to see rural villages up close. Yet despite their poverty, there was no sense of things falling apart. “You get the impression of a nation that is still cohering,” he said. “It is not simply because of repression, but because the regime still manages to inspire people.”

leonidpetrov.wordpress.com...

My point is though what is delaying the Ultranationalists from taking over is Kim Jong Un and the US. Kim Jong Un because he cares about is living a luxurious life while the US will never allow a fascist Korea. In order to realize their dream of a fascist Korea they need to eliminate Kim Jong Un and have US troops withdraw from the Peninsula.

a reply to: markosity1973


It could all be propaganda still. Missile could have been set to blow with Russia taking credit. US could have shot it down and Russia is taking credit. Missile is crap and like so many others blew up if that line is true

Besides if we knew that Russia and China want nothing to do with this and we knew it, we wouldn't go to war with Russia and China whatever NK did.

And really Russia should demonstrate more clarity about its intentions here. The lack of clarity leads to these speculation and posturing.

a reply to: starwarsisreal


OK who does some much business with the US and yet needs the US to withdraw its troops? Such a demand has the flavor of flexing from China......which has been flexing. All this spin and sales pitch could simply be a way to sell the idea of turning our backs on Formosa and Korea to the american public.

In other words considering the nature of the current relationships we have with China and Russia its not much to ask for some clarity of position from China and Russia. Clarity in our favor considering half the junk in my house was made in China.

Unless China and Russia for that matter still have old aspirations front and center.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: markosity1973

I have noticed in many a thread about the rising tensions about North Korea that most people have absolutely no idea what North Korea is really about, what South Korea wants and how the USA fits into all of this.

Korea was divided after WWII by the west so they could maintain a military presence on the Asian continent.

The southern portion of the Korean peninsula is occupied by the US military to this day. Recently installed THAAD missile launchers and a Carrier "Strike" group have also increased tensions in the region. US Bully antics, throwing its superpower weight against hapless sovereign nations, as usual.

Oh this is some comedy right here. American bully tactics. How many missiles has NK launched during Obama? Fired some over Japan. No, Korea deserves some attention at last.

a reply to: Logarock

when the economy collapse and both China and US fall,only then will the UItranationalists will take power. We saw this happened in Germany.

I know US is a bully and all but I wouldn't want another Nazi Germany around.

I'm pretty sure China will never want Ultranationalists either since they fought war against them back in WW2 (Yes I know it's Japan but Myers stated somewhere I forgot where that the Korean Ultranationalists' ideology are based on that of Imperial Japan).

An ultranationalist Korea would be more dangerous to China's security.

China would rather have a Communist Korea than a Fascist Korea that believes that Koreans are the master race.

I'm pretty sure already the Ultranationalists within North Korea are plotting against Kim Jong Un because he is a liability.

Regarding the "failed" missile test.

SK's 24-hr news channel YTN cites govt sources: "missile was to probably test warhead & exploded deliberately by NK"

a reply to: markosity1973


There was no good reason to split Korea, or for that matter, French Indo-China in the first place. The Soviets contributed nothing to defeating Japan and only declared war on Japan after Hiroshima. Right up there with Malta and the 'agreement' after WWI.

Outright idiocy that's given us two more wars and likely a third one.


You omitted one passible result of the current mess, especially if China backs Trump and there IS some indication they will, and that is an internal coup. Perhaps the best of all possible scenarios.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: markosity1973


You omitted one passible result of the current mess, especially if China backs Trump and there IS some indication they will, and that is an internal coup. Perhaps the best of all possible scenarios.

That is the scenario they have been hoping for all along. The military exercises that the US conducts near the DMZ are exactly that scenario - assuming control after the Kim regime collapses.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Our best hope is an effective decapitation attack.
Our worst fears are what his artillery will do to the south.
WE will be fine.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Those troops on the boarder undoubtedly have orders to attack in the event of a decapitation attack. South Korea will be devastated though.

Personally I feel North Korea while testing nuclear weapons, and testing ICBM's, are of concern, there isn't any real reason to put North Korea front and center because their weapons tests keep failing. Now when they start building functional WMD's then it will be time to seriously start looking at what needs to be done.

originally posted by: gpols
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Those troops on the boarder undoubtedly have orders to attack in the event of a decapitation attack. South Korea will be devastated though.

Personally I feel North Korea while testing nuclear weapons, and testing ICBM's, are of concern, there isn't any real reason to put North Korea front and center because their weapons tests keep failing. Now when they start building functional WMD's then it will be time to seriously start looking at what needs to be done.

So you recommend waiting until they're a serious threat? Capable of retaliation against anyone in the region? NK has the second largest submarine force in the world. It wouldn't take much, even right now, for a sub to launch a short ranged nuclear missile from a sub, or from a container ship for that matter, and EMP a west coast city.