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originally posted by: Byrd
originally posted by: punkinworks10
HOLY CRAP
That is astounding, looks like Carter and McNeish werew correct after all.
This gives new life to such finds as texas street and calico hills.
Not really; it's too early for that.
This is going to be an interesting debate in the paleontological communicty. Looking forward to it.
originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
originally posted by: Byrd
originally posted by: punkinworks10
HOLY CRAP
That is astounding, looks like Carter and McNeish werew correct after all.
This gives new life to such finds as texas street and calico hills.
Not really; it's too early for that.
This is going to be an interesting debate in the paleontological communicty. Looking forward to it.
Opens up all kinds of doors. I recall something about Leakey putting a date of about 200k on some flaked cobbles in the Arctic. Then there's Thomas Lee at Sheguiandah. Heads will explode!
originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: anti72
Well, it makes theoretical sense, since Homo species got to Australia, and such ... why not the Americas?
Of course the Leakey's primary association was with Olduvai Gorge. I have to find that New World reference. Sheguiandah is Northern Ontario...Manitoulin Island, and still the focus of ongoing debate.
originally posted by: Byrd
originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
originally posted by: Byrd
originally posted by: punkinworks10
HOLY CRAP
That is astounding, looks like Carter and McNeish werew correct after all.
This gives new life to such finds as texas street and calico hills.
Not really; it's too early for that.
This is going to be an interesting debate in the paleontological communicty. Looking forward to it.
Opens up all kinds of doors. I recall something about Leakey putting a date of about 200k on some flaked cobbles in the Arctic. Then there's Thomas Lee at Sheguiandah. Heads will explode!
I don't recall Leakey being in the Arctic... I was fairly certain that it was Africa. That and Lee are plausible because we have evidence of hominids in the area at that time.
Stratigraphic, Sedimentological and Faunal Evidence for the Occurrence of Pre-Sangamonian Artefacts in Northern Yukon
A. V. JOPLING,' W. N. IRVING2 and B. F. BEEBE2
ABSTRACT. The stratigraphic position of artefacts of undoubted Pleistocene age found in the Old Crow Basin has long been in question.
We report on geological, palaeontological and archaeological excavations and studies there which show that artefacts made by humans
occur in deposits of Glacial Lake Old Crow laid down before Sangamonian time, probably during a phase of the Illinoian (=Riss) glaciation.
The geological events surrounding and following the deposition of Glacial Lake Old Crow were complicated by a changing lake level, localized soft-sediment flowage, pingo formation and dissolution, and by the colluvial transport of vertebrate fossils and artefacts.
Following deepwater stages of the Lake, an environment not greatly different from that of the present is suggested by the excavated vertebrate fauna and by permafrost features, although warming during the succeeding Sangamon can be considered likely.
Sangamonian and later phenomena in the Old Crow Basin are referred to briefly; they show that humans persisted in the area for some time.
originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
JohnnyC,
Yes, you are thinking of Leaky at Calico, but may be conflating it with this,
Stratigraphic, Sedimentological and Faunal Evidence for the Occurrence of Pre-Sangamonian Artefacts in Northern Yukon
A. V. JOPLING,' W. N. IRVING2 and B. F. BEEBE2
ABSTRACT. The stratigraphic position of artefacts of undoubted Pleistocene age found in the Old Crow Basin has long been in question.
We report on geological, palaeontological and archaeological excavations and studies there which show that artefacts made by humans
occur in deposits of Glacial Lake Old Crow laid down before Sangamonian time, probably during a phase of the Illinoian (=Riss) glaciation.
The geological events surrounding and following the deposition of Glacial Lake Old Crow were complicated by a changing lake level, localized soft-sediment flowage, pingo formation and dissolution, and by the colluvial transport of vertebrate fossils and artefacts.
Following deepwater stages of the Lake, an environment not greatly different from that of the present is suggested by the excavated vertebrate fauna and by permafrost features, although warming during the succeeding Sangamon can be considered likely.
Sangamonian and later phenomena in the Old Crow Basin are referred to briefly; they show that humans persisted in the area for some time.
Stratigraphic, Sedimentological and Faunal Evidence for the Occurrence of Pre-Sangamonian Artefacts in Northern Yukon
originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
JohnnyC,
Yes, you are thinking of Leaky at Calico, but may be conflating it with this,
Stratigraphic, Sedimentological and Faunal Evidence for the Occurrence of Pre-Sangamonian Artefacts in Northern Yukon
A. V. JOPLING,' W. N. IRVING2 and B. F. BEEBE2
ABSTRACT. The stratigraphic position of artefacts of undoubted Pleistocene age found in the Old Crow Basin has long been in question.
We report on geological, palaeontological and archaeological excavations and studies there which show that artefacts made by humans
occur in deposits of Glacial Lake Old Crow laid down before Sangamonian time, probably during a phase of the Illinoian (=Riss) glaciation.
The geological events surrounding and following the deposition of Glacial Lake Old Crow were complicated by a changing lake level, localized soft-sediment flowage, pingo formation and dissolution, and by the colluvial transport of vertebrate fossils and artefacts.
Following deepwater stages of the Lake, an environment not greatly different from that of the present is suggested by the excavated vertebrate fauna and by permafrost features, although warming during the succeeding Sangamon can be considered likely.
Sangamonian and later phenomena in the Old Crow Basin are referred to briefly; they show that humans persisted in the area for some time.
Stratigraphic, Sedimentological and Faunal Evidence for the Occurrence of Pre-Sangamonian Artefacts in Northern Yukon
It was a while ago. The past...it can be confusing, eh?
originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Byrd
Its pretty sciencey, ill give you that. And it isn't easy as far as work goes. I work with a lady (who is well outside her degree) with a degree in Anthropology. I was shocked, actually, to see it hanging on her wall given what we do for a living. She shared some of the stories of her labs working in the desert around the general area of Alpine, TX (Sul Ross graduate), and i'd sweat and swat flies just listening to her.
I love anthroplogy, so it isn't a sleight. But its a study supported with science, not a science itself.
originally posted by: TSZodiac
Let me posit a theory - DNA researchers will tell you that about 50,000 years ago there was a human genetic "bottleneck" affecting every continent, where there were less than 20,000 people on the entire planet (less than 2000 in the whole of Europe). These same genetic researchers will tell you that ALL of the pre-1492 populations of the Americas were the descendants of only about 70 people.
Nearly all major civilizations/religions have a Flood Myth/Story.
Is it possible that a global catastrophe reduced the global population to "pockets" of people on Earth, where there previously were much larger groups of individuals/civilizations - that involved massive and sudden flooding.
originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: anti72
So the question being begged: how would we know if this were human and not mousterian or something?
originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Opens up all kinds of doors. I recall something about Leakey putting a date of about 200k on some flaked cobbles in the Arctic.
Wiki
In 1959 Louis Leakey, while at the British Museum of Natural History in London, received a visit from Ruth DeEtte Simpson, an archaeologist from California. Simpson had acquired what looked like ancient scrapers from a site in the Calico Hills and showed it to Leakey.
Leakey viewed it as important to study the Calico Hill site,[7] as he was convinced that the number and distribution of native languages in the Americas required more time than 12,000 years to evolve and acquire their current distribution.[8] In 1963, Leakey obtained funds from the National Geographic Society and commenced archaeological excavations with Simpson. Excavations in an area stratigraphically separate from a verified 10,000-year-old Paleoindian site were carried out by Leakey and Simpson, who believed that they had located stone artifacts that were dated 100,000 years or older, suggesting a human presence in North America much earlier than estimated.
originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
Not to derail too much but I thought I recognized Lee's name, and sure enough he was the guy who made the finds on the Ungava in the eastern arctic.
I agree he took a drubbing over it as well. His finds just didn't fit the narrative that Canada needed at the time to bolster it's claims in the arctic. I think he nailed it and it's just a matter of time before someone goes back into it with fresh eyes. Hope I'm still around to see it!