Poverty Is A Disease

Why Poverty Is Like A Disease

In human children, epigenetic changes in stress receptor gene expression that lead to heightened stress responses and mood disorders have been measured in response to childhood abuse.4 And last year, researchers at Duke University found that “lower socioeconomic status during adolescence is associated with an increase in methylation of the proximal promoter of the serotonin transporter gene,” which primes the amygdala—the brain’s center for emotion and fear—for “threat-related amygdala reactivity.”5 While there may be some advantages to being primed to experience high levels of stress (learning under stress, for example, may be accelerated6), the basic message of these studies is consistent: Chronic stress and uncertainty during childhood makes stress more difficult to deal with as an adult.

From one perspective, epigenetics offers a compelling narrative of life experiences feeding back directly onto the basic programming that makes us who we are. But the field also has some foundational controversies. In June of last year, a team of researchers from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bristol University, and the European Bioinformatics Institute published a paper arguing that the field is plagued with misinterpreted results. The sources of misinterpretation included confusing cause and effect (diseases can produce epigenetic markers as well as the other way around); spurious and misinterpreted statistics; confounding variables which cause apparent correlations; and a large variability among the epigenomes of individual cells, which is usually not controlled for in experiments.

I grew up poor....but not so poor i didn't know how we would eat. I wasn't a choosy kid, and would eat just about any food given to me (lucky for my mom, i guess). But we were poor, with normal social things my friends did not being a part of my experience. My wife and I talk about our childhoods, and she is shocked that my first vacation happened as an adult. She thought she grew up poor.

But in the grand scope, our poverty was mild and minor. We had school, we ate daily, and our homes passed building codes.

Many of you know my own experiences in this regard, at least in a broad sense. I've always believed in meritocracy. Over the past 2 years the things I read in science journals is leading me away, towards the notion that poverty creates biological changes that make it almost impossible for humans to overcome poverty. The roles of cause and effect in the discussion of poverty and ability are being reversed.

There is a pretty big p-hacking dust up in the world of social science, so I will wait for more info before continuing to refine my position. But if the research holds up, it seems that meritocracy is dead, and liberal social policies are the only way to save humanity from its own self imposed lowest denominator.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That p-hacking thing is actually turning out to be a very big thing and is likely to turn alot of things we think are true into a big fat pack of lies.

Epidimiology as a "soft" science may be giving out its last gasp!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That p-hacking thing is actually turning out to be a very big thing and is likely to turn alot of things we think are true into a big fat pack of lies.

Epidimiology as a "soft" science may be giving out its last gasp!

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Read this last night:

arstechnica.com...

Looks like the world of diet behavior is about to be upended.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You could well be right that poverty is like a disease. In my day I worked with a lot of very impoverished people and noted that their thought processes were quite impaired as though they were in constant fight or flight mode.

You are also probably correct the meritocracy is dead. Problem is though that the reasons for why the meritocracy is dying are so numerous and complex, its near impossible to fix.

Liberal (Leftist?) social policies will work in the short term, but as unemployment deepens because of robotics, AI, etc., eventually the bottom of the next "big reset" Economic Depression looks like Venezuela.

My guess, and its only a guess, is that TPTB, have figured out that the only solution is endless ground war similar to the Viet Nam war.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In addition to biological changes, there's also Learned helplessness

I don't think any of it is unavoidable or inescapable. We can change, and we do, But it is a kind of trap

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Creating a culture that everyone is a victim doesn't help much either.....

a reply to: TonyS

I have several thoughts on this. But primarily, im concerned with capacity and what that means.

I think a problem of the "globalist" economic system is that it requires infinite growth. The Earth cannot provide this. Right now, the only horizon left is Africa. It will likely take 10 years to solidify the monetization strategies and have the pie all divvied up. 10 years beyond that to complete infrastructure. Before that happens, the well is dry, unless we monetize Antarctica or find another source inside the Earth. Or....off Earth.

at this point, its our only real hope. And it has to happen soon.

a reply to: seeker1963

Maybe not....but poverty is pretty much a state of victimization. We have always said they were victims of poor decision making. But we may ave reversed cause and effect in our understanding.

That will be hard for some folks to admit.

Well I guess the poor could create group therapy sessions where they have coffee and donuts, and talk about their feelings.

Then after a set period of time pass out tokens.

I don't view poverty as a disease.

Every single person has the ability and capacity to change their circumstances, and yes people it can be quite a hard thing to do.

But life wasn't never meant to be easy.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

There are indications that "change" can take 3 or more generations to happen, due to methylisation of DNA limiting gene expression and hardwiring some behavioral traits.

I see this in myself, traits that I know better but am helpless to stop. I know im pretty smart, nd i know i have enormous self control. I exercise both regularly. Yet i find myself behaving irrationally in specific ways that just baffle me. When I read these studies (there are quire a few, as you are aware) it just makes sense of things that I struggle to make sense out of otherwise.

Of course, that doesn't mean its true. So we will need more studies. But the notion of killing 2 birds with 1 stone by paying parents to get their kids to school both enrages and intrigues me.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: TonyS
I think a problem of the "globalist" economic system is that it requires infinite growth.

I think there are two philosophies on poverty. One is "too bad there's nothing you can do about it". And the other is "we can have public policies that are effective in fighting poverty."

Many people believe the best way to fight poverty is by having smaller government whatever that means. So far, it doesn't seem to be working. But the people who believe smaller government usually would say the reason we have so much poverty is precisely because government is not small enough.

Poverty is just not a serious issue. It will never be addressed. Our politics are driven by lobbyists and NOT by public opinion. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Why would any politician piss off who the lobbyists are representing for the sake of fighting poverty and representing people without money. Money talks, everything else is irrelevant.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Over the past 2 years the things I read in science journals is leading me away, towards the notion that poverty creates biological changes that make it almost impossible for humans to overcome poverty.

Sorry..I'm calling crap on that one.

In 8 out of 10 cases..poverty is a choice...made unknowingly by your parents...or you.

This whole thing is bananas...I just cant stand this reoccurring notion that somehow...your life...is a byproduct of chance...and that you are unable to make a difference to it.

I just dont believe that.

originally posted by: neo96
Well I guess the poor could create group therapy sessions where they have coffee and donuts, and talk about their feelings.

Then after a set period of time pass out tokens.

I don't view poverty as a disease.

Every single person has the ability and capacity to change their circumstances, and yes people it can be quite a hard thing to do.

But life wasn't never meant to be easy.

Neo, read the link.

Its not psychological. Its genetic. If true, it would be impossible to argue against. Right now, you can dispute the study as there is a null value study filed as well. But if the study turns out to have validity, it will be beyond argument.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Creating a culture that everyone is a victim doesn't help much either.....

Creating a culture where practically everyone is NOT successful is also a problem. You how to score a home run in business? Start on third base and hit a single.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't think you'll find too many people arguing as to whether poverty is a disease or not.

What separates us is discussing the cure.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

What you believe is irrelevant to what is true.

Read the link. If you feel like it, read the sources linked within. I've read some, you can do the same and we can share notes.

But if you are going to call crap on my thoughts, you need to walk my path first. Or at least something close to it. Otherwise, its pure peanut gallery behavior.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Over the past 2 years the things I read in science journals is leading me away, towards the notion that poverty creates biological changes that make it almost impossible for humans to overcome poverty.

Sorry..I'm calling crap on that one.

In 8 out of 10 cases..poverty is a choice...made unknowingly by your parents...or you.

This whole thing is bananas...I just cant stand this reoccurring notion that somehow...your life...is a byproduct of chance...and that you are unable to make a difference to it.

I just dont believe that.

Yeah, it's a choice. Anyone can start a business to compete with Home Depot. You just have to have drive. If you imagine it anything is possible.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That link may say it, but I don't believe it.

Wealth is a state of mind.

Poverty isn't a disease, it's a social construct, created to further induce control.

If you're poor, you're less likely to push for change, because you want what little help you get.

Also, as someone who's been on Food Stamps before, it's not really set up to GET YOU OUT OF POVERTY... As a family of two adults and kids, you cannot make over 45k a year, and still collect Food stamps, you can't make more than 50k a year and still get health insurance, think about that for a moment, doesn't really leave much money after you make 46k - 50k to buy what FS provided so you're either forced to stay in jobs paying under a certain amount or push on through this insane barrier where you're trying to better your situation however you get less assistance to do such, it's kinda keeping many there.

Now to put things into perspective, 45k to 50k is the AVERAGE of what a American family makes a year.

The more insane part is, we have more jobs that pay a non-family-living wage than we do jobs that pay a family wage that are available at any given time.

The system is designed more or less to keep you down, there are people in San Francisco I watched in a documentary that are 40+ years old with college degrees ( some multiple ) and decades of experience in the corporate world who are homeless because of age bias.

This is also another reason why cities have more poverty than rural areas, due to mass transit and locale, however gentrification and other issues force these folks who basically have no where else to go.

Something has to be done, because this issue is only growing and becoming more problematic as youths see no end and get easily discouraged and swayed to other less ideal situations because of such.

Military veterans are among many homeless, not because they are drunks, addicts or don't care, but because of an amazing disregard for what it means to have military service as your background and many hiring don't see such value and don't hire out of experience and other issues, when many times not, you have experience 10 fold.

I worked on $23 million dollar fighter jet, was in charge of such, I signed a folder sheet every workday, stating that this jet was operational ready condition, if it crashed, or otherwise had an error, they were sending me to Fort Leavenworth to break rocks for a new living ( Hard Prison time ). I've saved people from walking in front of the intake while the jet was running, that would most certainly kill them. I've had such a hard time finding work when I got out, because of the civilian BS like licenses and certs, when I already had the training, just not the civilian paperwork, often overqualified and couldn't even get a job changing Cessna tires and pumping gas, when that was a part of what I did daily.

I had to reinvent myself, teaching myself new skills in a ever evolving world to increase my value and still had trouble finding work, it's never as easy as it seems, you can try and try and end up hurting yourself more than if you did nothing many times. lots of catch 22s. I'm fine now, but that was a sketchy decade that was hard to handle at times, it makes you feel worthless at times, knowing you have value and skills yet no chances are given.

There are many many many other issues, but diet isn't one, it's our society, it's our government and it's a conspiracy on levels many aren't looking at or are otherwise afraid too.