Does Islam condone domestic violence?

originally posted by: intrptr
So, more bombing then?

Let's compromise: NO more bombing by the West OR supporting its allies that do; and no more terrorist attacks against the West by Muslims.

Deal?

(What a shame those Muslim women will continue to be subjugated and oppressed because the countries they live in believe in holy scripture justifying that subjugation and oppression? No crying to the UN for help. No crying to the USA for help. Not my problem, doesn't affect me or any of the women in the country I live in, so just let it be, hey?)

a reply to: Dark Ghost

They could sure use some feminist teachings for their women . Assertiveness training and perhaps some self defense lessons too.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I provided a link. Yes there are many who still believe that crap and practice it.
I live in the south and I've heard this be submissive # over and over in normal conversation. I don't go to church.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

They live in countries that condone cutting out a woman's clitoris just so she won't cheat.

Edit: Sorry looking at too many thread simultaneously, need a break.

Personally I'm past treading carefully because in my opinion the way a country/religion treats their woman is clearly visible when you go to that country, know people from that country or see how they are doing overall.
Domestic abuse is rife in every country in the world.
However there is a difference in how it is accepted.
In the west, we have just as much domestic abuse than in muslim countries but in the west it is frowned upon, there are laws against it, women have the resources to contact someone to get help. There are organisations that will take victims in and there is actually a penalty for a crime committed.

In muslim countries, there is probably the same [possibly more] domestic abuse. Yet they are saying all the time that they respect women and treat them well. Well, they don't. They do not have a better record than us. A lot of abuse happens behind closed doors and despite being witnessed by others, nobody goes to the police. Nobody gives those women a helping hand to leave and go to a safe home.
At least we have acknowledged our predicament, which is the FIRST step to actually do something about it.

By telling me on one hand that islam is the most peaceful religion [but then also yields the biggest and most violent terrorists] and on the other hand telling me how wonderful women are treated [kept more likely] yet we KNOW that there is no way out for an abused islamic wife without incredibly bad repercussions often even so called 'honor' killings. Then I can't take their words seriously.

That is the difference and on top of all of this, the koran says that women have to be respected and at the same time can be caned lovingly] or punished [without leaving bruises] and raped [because if you are married, the man can do what he wants].

So yes, it is accepted. Maybe not by everyone, but in general nobody dares do anything constructive about it. Words are empty and action speak louder. And the actions certainly are at a discrepancy to their words.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

bill oreilly is a f***** wife beater. He must be a Muslim.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Early Islam was actually more friendlier to women than Western women until around 1876 I believe.

While early Islam allowed women to inherit some property, Western women at the time have nothing until 1876 or even later in places like the German Empire.

Also in Early Islam, veiling is only mandatory to aristocratic women and that peasant women don't have to wear them accept when they are in the Mosque.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I find OPs like this really puzzling. You do not identify yourself as Muslim. I can therefore assume you are NOT Muslim?

So, assuming you are not Muslim, why ever in the world do you care what the position of Islam is on beating women? The Amish believe women's heads should be covered. I am not Amish, I don't care. Its the Amish business, not mine.

Why concern yourself with what the Muslims may or may not believe if in fact, you are not Muslim?

a reply to: mekhanics

The difference is,..... spousal abuse is specifically ordained and sanctioned by Allah in the Qur'an. I don't think the laws of the city nor state in which O'Reilly resides has a lawful edict allowing a man to physically discipline his wife.

a reply to: Dark Ghosta reply to: Dark Ghost

"Out of context", "Cannot be properly translated into English", "That website is inherently Islamophobic"...NO that will not work.

You wouldn't take seemingly controversial statements from the Talmud out of context or quote from anti Semitic websites

So why do you take seemingly controversial statements from the Hadith out of context and quote from anti Islam websites?

Your approach towards Islam is not very different from neo Nazi approach towards Judaism.

Think about it

Islam as a pre-modern religion, just like Christianity and Judaism, does have laws that go back when woman were 4th class citizens that would be interpreted by today’s mores as domestic violence.


I hasten to say the Bible commanding the stoning of wayward children to death is domestic violence

a reply to: Willtell

hasten to say the Bible commanding the stoning of wayward children to death is domestic violence

In the Old Testament, which has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, is archaic, and nothing more than a book of history for Christians (for the most part). For some reason or other you love comparing it to modern day Islam.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Willtell

hasten to say the Bible commanding the stoning of wayward children to death is domestic violence

In the Old Testament, which has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, is archaic, and nothing more than a book of history for Christians (for the most part). For some reason or other you love comparing it to modern day Islam.

I’m not comparing the two, I’m making the point about pre-modern dogmatic faith versus reformed modern faith.

I use the term pre-modern rather than obsolete which means( no longer in use).

The fact is some orthodox Jews do not think it is obsolete, they still believe in it as a form of guidance. Also some Christians.

a reply to: Dark Ghost
Would mutilating the genitalia of a very young little girl fit in your explanation of DV?

If so - yes, they do.

If you consider DV would include forcing their young boys to walk across landmines to pave the way for fighters with their own blood and pave the way for their family to go to 'paradise' for their blood being shed?

If so - yes, they do.

And of course the beating of their wives, children, etc.

Pretty much I'd say 'Yeah, they do'.

peace

Condone it? They positively encourage it!

1,4000,000 results @ islam cleric instructions on how to beat wife search on Bing

www.bing.com...


And considering a muslim 'wife' may be only a few days old, she could be first scolded and advised, then sexually rejected (a moments reprieve) and finally physically admonished for 'disobedience' at not knowing or understanding the 'rules'.

Completely insane.

All of the Muslim women that I have met are very strong inside and out. Women in general are strong.

Muslim women, in my opinion, do not suffer inequity for any weakness on their behalf. Instead, the women who are subjugated are often trapped in a socio-cultural prison, no fault of their own. If their personal social culture (family, friends, town) justifies spousal subjugation based upon Qur'an verse 4:34, then any objection by an abused woman will be taken as religious disobedience and divergence from social norms. In these situations, the woman is alone in her stance against a pack-mentality greater in number. In these cases, the woman even risks soiling her own reputation as a bad wife, even in the eyes of her own family.

Also, in many of the geographic areas relevant to the discussion of the op, divorce is still largely taboo. Women do not receive such legal compensations as compared to the U.S., so any divorced woman may very well suffer economic hardships. Additionally, it may be extremely difficult for a divorced woman to re-marry, as she will forever be attached to a stigma that she must be a bad and/or unfit woman to have been divorced.

I am willing to bet that the greater majority of Muslim men do not beat their wives, as compared to those who do. I do not believe this issue is a "Muslim" issue, but rather, a theological/theocratic issue. Heck! It's even a secularly human issue, as spousal abuse and subjugation exists throughout all of the world to some extent or another.

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: Dark Ghost

aren't there conflicting quotes in the Quran
on how to treat women ?

The whole Quran is one giant self conflicting text that's where abrogation kicks in.
Making it even worse!

Search Results Naskh (tafsir) Naskh (نسخ) is an Arabic word usually translated as "abrogation"; It is a term used in Islamic legal exegesis for seemingly contradictory material within, or between, the two primary sources of Islamic law: the Quran and the Sunna

If it conflicts you must adhere to the later often more violent text.

a reply to: JAY1980

If it conflicts you must adhere to the later often more violent text.

dangerous to take your morality from a book

a reply to: Hecate666

and us women have acess to hand guns