The latest Feminist deflection

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Have YOU met any of these people? If so, how many? I'd wager that your exposure to them is 95 to 100% reading about them on the internet.

Thanks for answering (but not actually answering) my question with a knee-jerk reactionary question. Don't worry, I won't return the favour.

I have never met a feminist in real life who wants to genocide men or the one that wants to segregate 90% of the male population either, which is good for my sake I believe.

I HAVE met and spoken with men and women who identify as feminists who share some of the concerns I have raised in this thread alone. I have NOT met 100 feminists in total (or knowing they were feminists just by looking at them). I doubt you have either. I have done LOTS of research into feminism over the last few years because I wanted to understand where they were coming from. What I have found out about modern day feminism it is has caused the pendulum (despite starting before the centre) to swing way past the centre to the other extreme.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ypperst


"Oh yeah, im going to the cluuub to see if I can get some guys attention. I'll wear this very tiny skirt, high heels, show my stomach, pushing my breats up, getting drunk as #" And then they wonder howcome they get raped when they walk home alone in the dark. Thats pretty stupid to be honest.

Just because you go to a club and want guys to admire your beautiful body doesn't mean you want them to rape you against your will.

We should be focusing on how horrible it is that a guy is following a woman home in the dark so he can rape her. Why are you not focusing on that? Why are you focusing on what you think the woman is doing wrong? Why aren't you focusing on what the man is doing wrong?

AS I Said, no one should be raping anyone.
I find it horrible that some males find woman as something they should rape.

But we know that there is sick people around, dont we? This world is not some magical womderland is it?

Try go to your nearest ghetto with a bulletproof vest and a knife sticking out your pocket. There is a big chance that someone there would punch you, even tho they shouldnt do that.

Your logic is flawed

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
I have never met a feminist in real life who wants to genocide men or the one that wants to segregate 90% of the male population either, which is good for my sake I believe.

So how do you know that you aren't being lead astray by anti-feminist propaganda?

I HAVE met and spoken with men and women who identify as feminists who share some of the concerns I have raised in this thread alone. I have NOT met 100 feminists in total (or knowing they were feminists just by looking at them). I doubt you have either. I have done LOTS of research into feminism over the last few years because I wanted to understand where they were coming from. What I have found out about modern day feminism it is has caused the pendulum (despite starting before the centre) to swing way past the centre to the other extreme.

What I've found out about anti-feminists is that they know next to nothing about how feminism actually works and instead think that the opinions of one or two feminists they met (or even worse read about on the internet) equals the beliefs of the whole. Thus they argue that it allows them to fallaciously dismiss the whole movement.

Nothing new here for me in this thread either. First you accuse me of not knowing my own movement and talk about extremist feminists like they are the norm and now that you've admitted that you haven't actually met any of these extremists you still want to argue like their opinions are the majority. Typical dehumanization tactics.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I'm sure women would love to be paid the same as men. I'm sure that they'd love for men to stop deciding their reproductive rights too.

See my earlier post in regard to the supposed wage gap. (www.abovetopsecret.com...) there is the link so you can examine it yourself.

Men don't think they can control women's right to choose to have or not have an abortion because they are men, they do so because they have been brainwashed by religious beliefs that do not make sense. Don't believe me? Can you explain why there are thousands of women in the USA who agree with those men on the issue? Can you guess why those women share the same views? (In case you are not aware, I am pro-choice. I don't believe abortion is a straightforward issue, but on balance pro-choice is the more reasonable option.

And don't pull out the BS about "reproductive rights". What reproductive rights do men have again? Oh yeah: don't have sex if you don't want to risk pregnancy. If you do get her pregnant and don't want the child, you can't stop her from getting a abortion. Or what if you want her to have the baby and you will support her when she does but she wants an abortion? No say again. How can a woman avoid both situations? By not having sex without knowing she is risking a pregnancy? Oh wait, THAT is sexist. What right do I have, as a male, to prevent her from engaging in her sexual freedom?

Man those "reproductive rights" are SO skewed in the favour of men, it is unreal you should bring them up.

I'm always confused by the term Men's Rights Activists. What rights have we lost that justify attacking womanhood as a whole?

I tried to avoid this thread... really, I did. I closed it three different times. God, I wish I were stronger.

But... I'm not.

I remember when feminism was young. I was all for it. If a woman can and does the same job as a man, why shouldn't she make as much? Rape... any sexual assault, actually... is wrong, a crime, and should be vigorously pursued and the perpetrator severely punished. Period.

But then came the question of when is sexual assault sexual assault? Women can easily trap men in situations where they at least appear to be guilty of such. If a man and a woman are alone, and the woman screams "rape," who is believed? Most of the time it is the woman.

Feminism did not care about this dynamic. Innocence or guilt was irrelevant. All that was relevant was the word of the woman. That is why I personally rejected Feminism.

Dark Ghost earlier asked a question: if women make less than men, why are women not employed more than men? The answer is obvious from my last paragraph: women in close proximity are a legal risk to any man's liberty. It doesn't require any action on the part of the man to create this risk... only existence as a male in the wrong situation. I personally avoid close contact with women unless I am certain they are anti-feminist and their integrity is above reproach. I'm sure most CEOs do as well. It has become an unwritten rule of survival in society, created and promoted by Feminism.

And in the process, less uproar is created when rape does occur, because now there's this little doubting voice in the back of peoples' minds: "Did he really do it?"

The brutal truth is that men and women are different. Aside from the anatomically obvious, their biological responses to external stimuli are different, and their emotional responses are different. Males typically are more aggressive, stronger physically, and less emotional. Women are typically more dependable, more intelligent, and have greater emotional strength. Biologically, women are instinctively driven to attract males, while men are instinctively driven to respond to the attraction with sexual activity.

Of course (and I only have to state the obvious here because feminists may be watching), these are generalizations and anyone can find specific cases that do not follow general tendencies.

Humans also have intelligence, however, and this allows us to overcome most of those biological desires. Most, not all. Thus, we can have laws that prohibit rape and expect them to be followed. In the process of having laws, we must have the concept of fairness and reason; otherwise those laws become little more than a method used to bully individuals randomly. For example, if a sexual encounter is purely consensual until 0.001 second before consumption, is the consumption still consensual? A feminist will say no, but a realist will say initially yes, but no if not de-escalated quickly. The woman had a duty to call it off sooner, although the man has a duty to accept the change in consent as quickly as practical. That is reason.

If a woman dresses seductively, goes to a bar, flirts with men, and gets drunk as a skunk, is she liable for any ensuing rape? Legally, no! Morally, no! Realistically... she contributed by placing herself in known danger. That does not mean she should be required to wear a burka at all times (I cannot believe that was even suggested), but it does mean having friends nearby, controlling how much she drinks, or at least keeping the flirting to lower levels. It is no different than a guy going to a rough bar, getting drunk as a skunk, and cussing some dude with a bad attitude and limbs the size and consistency of redwood tree trunks. He us not responsible legally for having the stuffing beat out of him, but he is realistically guilty of contributing to his own beating. He should not have taken the actions he took, and all the law can do is lock up Mr. Redwood Tree. It cannot prevent the beating from happening.

If the purpose is to stop sexual assault, the suggested course will be to educate women on potential dangers and aggressively pursue legal violations, while also discouraging false allegations. If the purpose is to extract revenge on men for the crime of being men, the suggested course will be to hold women harmless in all situations, indeed, to encourage dangerous behavior, aggressively pursue legal violations, and encourage allegations with respect to actual truth behind them.

Which course does Feminism support?

This will fall on deaf ears, of course. I know that. Like I said, I tried to keep my trap shut... I really did!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I'm sure women would love to be paid the same as men. I'm sure that they'd love for men to stop deciding their reproductive rights too.

See my earlier post in regard to the supposed wage gap. (www.abovetopsecret.com...) there is the link so you can examine it yourself.

I see a bunch of words and your opinion by no facts or evidence refuting its existence.

Men don't think they can control women's right to choose to have or not have an abortion because they are men, they do so because they have been brainwashed by religious beliefs that do not make sense. Don't believe me? Can you explain why there are thousands of women in the USA who agree with those men on the issue? Can you guess why those women share the same views? (In case you are not aware, I am pro-choice. I don't believe abortion is a straightforward issue, but on balance pro-choice is the more reasonable option.

I wasn't born yesterday. I know what the issues are surrounding abortion. That doesn't change the fact that men largely determine abortion laws for women.

And don't pull out the BS about "reproductive rights". What reproductive rights do men have again? Oh yeah: don't have sex if you don't want to risk pregnancy. If you do get her pregnant and don't want the child, you can't stop her from getting a abortion. Or what if you want her to have the baby and you will support her when she does but she wants an abortion? No say again. How can a woman avoid both situations? By not having sex without knowing she is risking a pregnancy? Oh wait, THAT is sexist. What right do I have, as a male, to prevent her from engaging in her sexual freedom?

Man those "reproductive rights" are SO skewed in the favour of men, it is unreal you should bring them up.

No one said the situation was a simple solution. That is why we are still having issues, but to pretend like we shouldn't do something because fixing the problem would be complicated is silly and dumb.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
What I've found out about anti-feminists is that they know next to nothing about how feminism actually works and instead think that the opinions of one or two feminists they met (or even worse read about on the internet) equals the beliefs of the whole. Thus they argue that it allows them to fallaciously dismiss the whole movement.

Can you define anti-feminist? I really recommend you read my recent thread which deals with what you have just said. Here it is: The Ultimate Battle of the Sexes

Nothing new here for me in this thread either. First you accuse me of not knowing my own movement and talk about extremist feminists like they are the norm and now that you've admitted that you haven't actually met any of these extremists you still want to argue like their opinions are the majority. Typical dehumanization tactics.

I didn't even know you were a feminist until you just told me. I assumed you were an "ally" or an "echo-feminist". Interesting that you just made that conclusion (actually an unwarranted assumption) about me while accusing me of making an assumption about you.

I have met enough feminists to know that they do not share a unified view that is consistent. Again, check out the thread I linked above.

Dehumanisation? Are you really going to throw at that card? Who am I trying to "dehumanise"? How can I dehumanise an ideology exactly? Please explain how.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Now its 60% of mens wages?

I'm suprised there arent large numbers of actual lawsuits to support this "wage rape culture" thats so prevalent. The only one I can think of is google as the perp

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I'm always confused by the term Men's Rights Activists. What rights have we lost that justify attacking womanhood as a whole?

None. It exists because traditionalists view rights as some sort of zero-sum game where a group gets new rights that must mean another group has lost them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I see a bunch of words and your opinion by no facts or evidence refuting its existence.

Ok, how about you show me evidence there is a wage gap? You know one that is done by renowned economist at the very least? A person who would understand how wages are calculated in a capitalist economy. Is that a fair enough request?

I wasn't born yesterday. I know what the issues are surrounding abortion. That doesn't change the fact that men largely determine abortion laws for women.

Men under the spell of religious beliefs. Please show me some atheists that are pro-life and can explain their position rationally? Go ahead.

[Dark Ghost]And don't pull out the BS about "reproductive rights". What reproductive rights do men have again? Oh yeah: don't have sex if you don't want to risk pregnancy. If you do get her pregnant and don't want the child, you can't stop her from getting a abortion. Or what if you want her to have the baby and you will support her when she does but she wants an abortion? No say again. How can a woman avoid both situations? By not having sex without knowing she is risking a pregnancy? Oh wait, THAT is sexist. What right do I have, as a male, to prevent her from engaging in her sexual freedom?

Man those "reproductive rights" are SO skewed in the favour of men, it is unreal you should bring them up.[Dark Ghost]

No one said the situation was a simple solution. That is why we are still having issues, but to pretend like we shouldn't do something because fixing the problem would be complicated is silly and dumb.

Umm, ok? How does that relate to what I just said?

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
I have met enough feminists to know that they do not share a unified view that is consistent. Again, check out the thread I linked above.

No #. There is no movement in existence that has a unified view across all its members/followers. That is part of the human condition. No two people think exactly a like. So it should go without saying that feminism means different things to different people.

Dehumanisation? Are you really going to throw at that card? Who am I trying to "dehumanise"? How can I dehumanise an ideology exactly? Please explain how.

I see it all the time. The attempt to paint feminists as evil, rights stealing people from men. It isn't true. You brought up that stupid strawman earlier about extremist feminists like they were the norm, but then you even admitted to never having met one (though I'M the one who is supposed to wake up to their meager existence apparently). That is an example of dehumanization. You were trying to lazily blanket label all feminists like they wanted to kill men, but I wasn't buying it. I don't know feminists like that. YOU don't know feminists like that, so why do you even think they are real people and not cartoon characters invented by anti-feminists?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I'm always confused by the term Men's Rights Activists. What rights have we lost that justify attacking womanhood as a whole?

You simply need to do more research into the topic. You are ignorant of the facts and the situation at present.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Have you noticed how the same people that cry about being passed over for a job/school/etc for a woman/minority/etc it's a violation of their rights are the same people that vehemently argue against things like state sponsored schooling or a universal basic income because those things aren't covered by the Constitution? I wonder if they know their cognitive dissonance is showing.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Go ahead. Elucidate me. Because as far as I can see men still have all the rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
No #. There is no movement in existence that has a unified view across all its members/followers. That is part of the human condition. No two people think exactly a like. So it should go without saying that feminism means different things to different people.

But I didn't argue what you are stating above. I argued that there are inconsistencies between prominent feminists in regard to core feminist beliefs such as: if equality has been achieved or if more needs to be done to achieve it, if more attention should be paid to issues affecting men and whether equal rights for women actually means the same thing as special rights for women.

I see it all the time. The attempt to paint feminists as evil, rights stealing people from men. It isn't true. You brought up that stupid strawman earlier about extremist feminists like they were the norm, but then you even admitted to never having met one (though I'M the one who is supposed to wake up to their meager existence apparently). That is an example of dehumanization. You were trying to lazily blanket label all feminists like they wanted to kill men, but I wasn't buying it. I don't know feminists like that. YOU don't know feminists like that, so why do you even think they are real people and not cartoon characters invented by anti-feminists?

You obviously have not read through my replies before you joined the thread. To save you further embarrassment, I suggest you do so now or if you cannot handle the heat, leave the thread and come back when you can.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ypperst


"Oh yeah, im going to the cluuub to see if I can get some guys attention. I'll wear this very tiny skirt, high heels, show my stomach, pushing my breats up, getting drunk as #" And then they wonder howcome they get raped when they walk home alone in the dark. Thats pretty stupid to be honest.

Just because you go to a club and want guys to admire your beautiful body doesn't mean you want them to rape you against your will.

We should be focusing on how horrible it is that a guy is following a woman home in the dark so he can rape her. Why are you not focusing on that? Why are you focusing on what you think the woman is doing wrong? Why aren't you focusing on what the man is doing wrong?

Why not focus on learning girls and boys how to act towards each others?

FFs, 95% of men know its horrible and yet you make it sound like only 20% men know its wrong.

we want to help women, not rape them.

But again, the world is not a fairy tale.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Have you noticed how the same people that cry about being passed over for a job/school/etc for a woman/minority/etc it's a violation of their rights are the same people that vehemently argue against things like state sponsored schooling or a universal basic income because those things aren't covered by the Constitution? I wonder if they know their cognitive dissonance is showing.

I assume you are referring to the USA constitution? You are aware that not everyone on this website is from the USA? Were you aware of that fact?

(So making comments like you just did with the intention to embarrass me, but have it backfire on you because of your ignorance and assumption that I live in the USA and have stated my support for the US constitution at the very least, does kind of make you look stupid as well.)

So no, I will not "elucidate" you, because at this point you seem beyond my capabilities to educate. Do some research. It's not hard. Don't choose to play the role of ignorance, stupidity AND laziness all at once.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
But I didn't argue what you are stating above. I argued that there are inconsistencies between prominent feminists in regard to core feminist beliefs such as: if equality has been achieved or if more needs to be done to achieve it, if more attention should be paid to issues affecting men and whether equal rights for women actually means the same thing as special rights for women.

Yes and there are inconsistencies just like this in every movement. Plus, feminism itself is a very broad label that encompasses and uses a lot of different beliefs. This AGAIN speaks to how pointing out anecdotes of the extremists doesn't help your case. It just shows lazy researching on your part, especially since even you are admitting that feminists have wildly different beliefs between each other.

You obviously have not read through my replies before you joined the thread. To save you further embarrassment, I suggest you do so now or if you cannot handle the heat, leave the thread and come back when you can.

Yeah assholeish arrogance is TOTALLY going to convince people of your argument.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I'm aware you're from Australia. However, the majority of the users on this site are American. So it stands to reason that most of the Men's Rights Activists on this site are also American. If what I typed doesn't apply to you (obviously other than country of origin) than I think it's clear you were not one of the people I was talking about. However, the aggressiveness in your response seems to be quite telling.