Aliens as Time Travelers AND Space Travelers? Who says they can't be both?

Who says they can't be both?

I'm becoming a fan of the "repetition with variation" theory of time travel. It goes like this:

Suppose you go back in time and kill Hitler. This starts a new time line where Hitler never rose to power, and your future self, having never heard of him doesn't go back in time to kill him.

This starts a new time line again, where Hitler is alive. (Reigniting the original time line, essentially.)

However, at the quantum level, the behavior of photons is TRULY random. So even though all starting conditions in this new time line are exactly identical in every way to the original timeline, history doesn't unfold in exactly the same way again. Your future self may or may not go back in time to kill Hitler in this timeline.


In this theory, all paradoxes eventually resolve due to the "dice" being rerolled however many times it takes to avoid a contradiction. A time traveler wishing to alter their own past would have to be infinity lucky.

However, there is a difference between "the past" and "your past". You can change anything that is causally disconnected from you completely enough. Such as traveling to the past of a distant planet near a distant star, so far away that it has never had any meaningful impact on Earth's history.

Unless..... you've already met that planet in your own present. Then you'd have to tip toe around to avoid changing anything, or risk triggering a series of time resets that ultimately ends with you failing to change it (usually meaning that in the final reset where things resolve to, you will experience terrible, awful, luck and possibly crash your ship or die.)


You'd probably want to keep your presence a secret. And you couldn't do much to them on a grand scale while wandering around in their past, because you've already seen their future.

What use is it to do this then? You could infiltrate them and set up a "fifth column". A contingency that waits to be activated until time has progressed up to whatever your "present" situation is with them.


So if say.... they first meet us in the year 2500 AD, they might go back in time to the 1900's or earlier and begin setting something up, knowing they will still have to wait until 2500 AD to make a move.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Aliens, Time Travelers, Space Travelers, and Interdimensional beings. Who says they cant be some or all?
Even be US from our future....

Do you want to know a paradox possibility?

Aliens going back in time is one of the many reasons why we haven't hit space technology yet for civilians. Every planet with life has its own ecosystem. Each creatures has different genes. So basically. Aliens could have been the one that brought the plague in medieval age. Every new genes effecting the planet can change the planet outcome for the future. So if aliens go back in time, landed on earth, and tried not to change something. It has already change by just shedding skin cells on the planet. Time travel is dangerous. You don't know what outcome will come out for your future self unless your trying to prevent it first place by erasing the person from doing it.

ive always wondered if the UFO's are actually from a past time on our planet during a previous civilization tens of thousands or millions of years ago. knowing what we do about how time is affected by your speed relative to a point in space, ive always been curious if these are potentially previous tests of experimental high speed spacecraft that were sent out but when they got back found that the world they knew was gone and had been gone for a very long time. for them maybe it had been hours or weeks but in reality many many years had passed and now theres no way to go back. while it may not be the traditional methods of time travel it would be a form of it.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Aliens, Time Travelers, Space Travelers, and Interdimensional beings. Who says they cant be some or all?
Even be US from our future....

Supposing Faster than light travel isn't possible, but time travel is possible. So the solution to faster than light travel in space is that you take however long you need to get there, but then time travel back, so the trip is effectively instantaneous. (Or even better than instantaneous.)

Imagine if the first colonists to leave Earth for a distant planet decided to go to that planet's past, and colonize it in the past.

So maybe we are meeting the thousandth generation of of that colony, which has been around for thousands of years?

originally posted by: makemap
Do you want to know a paradox possibility?

Aliens going back in time is one of the many reasons why we haven't hit space technology yet for civilians. Every planet with life has its own ecosystem. Each creatures has different genes. So basically. Aliens could have been the one that brought the plague in medieval age. Every new genes effecting the planet can change the planet outcome for the future. So if aliens go back in time, landed on earth, and tried not to change something. It has already change by just shedding skin cells on the planet. Time travel is dangerous. You don't know what outcome will come out for your future self unless your trying to prevent it first place by erasing the person from doing it.

Yeah. The big danger of time travel would be the possibility of erasing yourself.

However, Aliens from a far away world don't need to worry about that when time traveling to our world. Because altering our history will do nothing to change their history. Nothing that happens in Earth's past will affect a planet hundreds of light years away.

We need an advanced space satellite to even *detect* a far away planet. There's no way a "butterfly effect" can travel that far.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Here's my opinion. This will solve the paradoxes.



Say you wanted to test the 'kill your grandpa before your dad was born so that you can't be born paradox'.



You have your super A.I. computer run a scan on the quantum state of your entire city and other small sections of the planet all over millions of times per second long enough that it can predict what the quantum state of all of the atoms on the planet was when your grandpa was six years old... the day of his birthday...at that very moment that picture you have in your hand was taken.

This old picture along with almost every picture and video on earth ever taken which was loaded into the A.I. cloud helped your A.I. super computer fine tune it's calculations to a 99.9999(add like 10,000 more 9's) degree of accuracy.

There your time machine awaits on the other side of the electro-plasma barrier bubble about a light-year to the middle. It looks nothing like how they predicted it to be in movies decades ago....it is far more massive, at least the machine part anyway. Even at this distance it appears twice the size of the sun from the vantage point of Earth. The portal itself is a circle with a diameter of about 100 meters. They wanted it to be large enough to secure sizable armaments....Man and their war machines.

The A.I. reminds you of some of the dangers of traveling through the portal. Sometimes the portal can become unstable and when this happens any matter touching the portal will convert to energy with 100% efficiency as it comes into contact with the antimatter that shoots toward the center from the rim of dark matter that holds the portal open. Scientists have theories on why this happens tho they aren't sure and they cannot predict it or stop it. Nevertheless it's an extremely rare event.

The A.I. also reminds you of the dangers that the paradox itself poses such as erasing yourself if you kill your grandpa. (The A.I. predicts this won't happen but it is attempting to play on your feelings and beliefs in order to convince you to stay as it is programmed to protect you from possible harm)

You shrug it off and remind the A.I. that a complete copy of your quantum state will be retained just in case. You instruct the A.I to use the teleporter to reconstruct you from that data after 5 days if you do not return.

Off you go dressed in the business attire of 1930 just for fun. You don't really need to disguise your self what with your stealth tech and you have no plans on interacting with anyone.

You know by information provided by your A.I. back at the lab that in two days your grandpa will wander about a kilometer into the woods alone to go fishing at the creek.

It took a few hours for the nano bots to build, but your quarters which are about 50 meters away from where he will be at the creek is satisfactory.

You send off your bots to find your first victim. A bear. Once found the bots enter the bear and complete it's takeover. You have a new pet. You keep it a healthy distance away because you find it repulsing.

So the time comes when your grandpa arrives. He is sitting there serenely on the shore on a log with his line in the water. He has absolutely no perception of you at his side, hovering three meters away. You watch him in complete silence cloaked in your multi functional suit.

With just your thoughts you order the bots to float the bear over behind your grandpa and attack him viciously until you know he is dead. You then have the nanobots release the bear. The bear looks around in confusion before dining on your grandpa a bit.


Mission objective complete.

You have your nanobot system deconstruct your quarters and it's self back into your briefcase. You use your portal to get back.

Back at the lab your A.I. informs you that your grandpa had not died by the bear attack at six years old. And in fact according to the record you kept of your world before you left there was no change.

Your grandpa died at the ripe old age of 20 when your dad was six, your parents birth records, marriage records, everything, it all checks out as you run the program to compare the data you took with you when you went on your trip.

So what happened? The world you traveled to was identical to your world with 99.9999(add 10,000 zeros) accuracy.

You run all of the data obtained throughout the entire experiment through your super A.I. computer. And after a few long days of work you reach a conclusion.

You can't go back in time to your own universe because you would have to physically rearrange every atom, every particle and every beam of light of your universe back to the state they were in at the exact moment they were in when you want to be there.

You concluded that you had actually traveled to a parallel world with astoundingly close resemblance to yours. But could you then travel back to that same universe a few hours before you arrived and kill yourself?

You go back and watch your grandpa only to find that the you that arrives to kill him never comes. You conclude that you had actually traveled to a parallel world with astoundingly close resemblance to the one you killed your grandpa in...

So what the hell is going on?

You run all of the data obtained throughout the entire experiment through your super A.I. computer. And after a few long days of work you reach a conclusion.

All parallel world's are on the same river of time although in different states on this river.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Yeah last line seems more reasonably reasonable

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Youre using terms and Earthly speed-of-light definitions. That's youthful thinking.. Perhaps they don't travel at all?And just "ARE".we can only think in earth terms, science and what we understand here and now, rt?

And we are pretty young yet...

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: bloodymarvelous



You go back and watch your grandpa only to find that the you that arrives to kill him never comes. You conclude that you had actually traveled to a parallel world with astoundingly close resemblance to the one you killed your grandpa in...

So what the hell is going on?

You run all of the data obtained throughout the entire experiment through your super A.I. computer. And after a few long days of work you reach a conclusion.

All parallel world's are on the same river of time although in different states on this river.

I see you are using the "multiple universes" theory. It is very popular. It's the one Star Trek uses, right?

My version comes out of quantum physics. It's based on the Schrodinger's Cat paradox.

en.wikipedia.org...

He was making a joke about Quantum Physics by suggesting that it predicted that, if you locked a cat in a perfectly sealed box, and put a machine in the box that would decide whether to kill the cat based on a purely quantum event (such as the decay of a radioactive isotope). Then if you didn't open the box for a long time afterward, the whole time the cat is inside the box it would be in a juxtaposition of states, both dead and alive, until someone opens the box to observe.

I'm thinking: what if we take Schrodinger's thought experiment at face value? Maybe the cat truly isn't dead or alive from our perspective, living outside the box? Perhaps we are free, if we so desire, to go back in time and save it (and/or kill it) if we want because the matter hasn't been decided yet?

All events which have occurred in the past, but which haven't been "reported" to you yet would be subject to change. Unfortunately your grandfather's survival has been "observed" by you, because you can plainly see you are alive. Also you have already observed Hitler's rise to power. So you can't go back in time and kill him.

But THE ENTIRE HISTORY of a planet 200 light years away would be "unreported" from your perspective. The interaction between a planet that far away, and our own planet, is simply too weak. I doubt that even one butterfly in all of Earth's history ever died because of anything happening on another planet 200 lightyears away.

You can change that planets history all you want, because you don't know its history to begin with. (So for all you know, the things you do in the past of that planet aren't "changes" anyway.)



Anyway, I find explanations that arise from Quantum Physics to be the most plausible because, if time travel is ever invented, it will almost certainly be based on a scientific theory arising from Quantum Physics anyway.

There would be no paradox at all, if it was impossible to come or go back to the same timeline. Suggesting that the space/time continuum has such infinite granularity that you could never ever point to a specific point in time because it is a completely analog system.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: bloodymarvelous



You go back and watch your grandpa only to find that the you that arrives to kill him never comes. You conclude that you had actually traveled to a parallel world with astoundingly close resemblance to the one you killed your grandpa in...

So what the hell is going on?

You run all of the data obtained throughout the entire experiment through your super A.I. computer. And after a few long days of work you reach a conclusion.

All parallel world's are on the same river of time although in different states on this river.

I see you are using the "multiple universes" theory. It is very popular. It's the one Star Trek uses, right?

My version comes out of quantum physics. It's based on the Schrodinger's Cat paradox.

en.wikipedia.org...

He was making a joke about Quantum Physics by suggesting that it predicted that, if you locked a cat in a perfectly sealed box, and put a machine in the box that would decide whether to kill the cat based on a purely quantum event (such as the decay of a radioactive isotope). Then if you didn't open the box for a long time afterward, the whole time the cat is inside the box it would be in a juxtaposition of states, both dead and alive, until someone opens the box to observe.

I'm thinking: what if we take Schrodinger's thought experiment at face value? Maybe the cat truly isn't dead or alive from our perspective, living outside the box? Perhaps we are free, if we so desire, to go back in time and save it (and/or kill it) if we want because the matter hasn't been decided yet?

All events which have occurred in the past, but which haven't been "reported" to you yet would be subject to change. Unfortunately your grandfather's survival has been "observed" by you, because you can plainly see you are alive. Also you have already observed Hitler's rise to power. So you can't go back in time and kill him.

But THE ENTIRE HISTORY of a planet 200 light years away would be "unreported" from your perspective. The interaction between a planet that far away, and our own planet, is simply too weak. I doubt that even one butterfly in all of Earth's history ever died because of anything happening on another planet 200 lightyears away.

You can change that planets history all you want, because you don't know its history to begin with. (So for all you know, the things you do in the past of that planet aren't "changes" anyway.)



Anyway, I find explanations that arise from Quantum Physics to be the most plausible because, if time travel is ever invented, it will almost certainly be based on a scientific theory arising from Quantum Physics anyway.

I disagree. I think if time travel is ever invented it will be based on string theory, which is what I based my scenario on.

I'll address your scenario.

Let's say you find a planet 200 LY away. You go to your time machine based on Pluto, you go back in time when your grandpa was a child. You warp space-time and instantly arrive at that planet. You do some things to alter their history at that faraway planet right? You can because you haven't previously observed anything from that planet.

What happens if you then warp back to earth after spending only a few days at that faraway planet, and you go and find your grandpa and kill him?

You don't solve the paradox by just avoiding it.

originally posted by: charlyv
There would be no paradox at all, if it was impossible to come or go back to the same timeline. Suggesting that the space/time continuum has such infinite granularity that you could never ever point to a specific point in time because it is a completely analog system.

I agree. I think the paradox itself by its very nature points to this.

Time travel is essential for revisionist history activity since cause and effect relationships need to be dated and recorded in the proper order.
Very similar to reverse engineering alien technology where you are overriding your ego's image of that makes the technology alien.

Greetings-


"They" are Us and not only that but We are ALL connected. You are the 'Other Me'. (Bell's Theorem)

namaste

Stay Hydrated...

a reply to: JimNasium

Remember that little poem/story called the egg? Reminds me of this. The Egg by Andy Weir

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: JimNasium

Remember that little poem/story called the egg? Reminds me of this. The Egg by Andy Weir

Eggs Actly..

Not only that, but once the Self realizes they are indeed "Eternal" and that part of them that is the actually 'Self/Soul' will never die, it just gets transferred, then the whole concept of "Time" loses its grips, and the Self who KNOWS this, becomes a "Time Traveller" They are traveling throughout 'time' and will be present, wherever they are.. These folks also usually don't consider 'time' as being linear...

You ARE "The Creator" working Your way back to 'The One Infinite Creator' "Returning from whence You came...

Have a Day!! (They are all 'good' but some are 'better' than others...)

a reply to: JimNasium


Absolutely! That is my thoughts exactly!

I look at myself and people like you that think like this as "self aware". As in the Creator has become self aware. Once the rest of humanity or at least a good number more realizes this only then will we make great progress in completing the circle!

If they travel through space for lights years they surely are time-travelers...more like time-eluders...

originally posted by: Alien Abduct



I disagree. I think if time travel is ever invented it will be based on string theory, which is what I based my scenario on.

I'll address your scenario.

Let's say you find a planet 200 LY away. You go to your time machine based on Pluto, you go back in time when your grandpa was a child. You warp space-time and instantly arrive at that planet. You do some things to alter their history at that faraway planet right? You can because you haven't previously observed anything from that planet.

What happens if you then warp back to earth after spending only a few days at that faraway planet, and you go and find your grandpa and kill him?

You don't solve the paradox by just avoiding it.

Traveling to another dimension is exactly the same problem.

The underlying assumption to Star Trek time travel is that time travel is only possible to the past of other dimensions. You can't go back and kill your grand father because time travel to your own dimension is impossible.

But why couldn't you travel to another dimension, and then time travel from there to this dimension's past?