The right to offend and the right to be offended

(Disclaimer; This is not a thread about ATS, it's rules, it's staff or it's management.)


A recent thread caused me to think about the right to offend.

I searched and found an essay titled, "Freedom of Speech means Freedom to Offend".

rebirthofreason.com...

It talked about many of the things I was thinking about.

With the possible exception of property, there is nothing more sacred than one's freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means the freedom to say with words, spoken or written, anything one chooses to say. It is not freedom to say only what offends no one, it is not freedom to say only what agrees with some authority's official line; it means freedom to say anything, even if everyone else in the whole world is offended by it and even if it contradicts every official doctrine of every authority that ever existed.

Self-censorship is an on-going activity in our society. We do it as to not offend. Offending someone or some group has become a crime of sorts. Sure, there are laws for libel and such, but just giving an opinion on any given topic is sure to fire someone up.
But when we self-censor, we are voluntarily denying ourselves the right to free expression.

It is okay to say offensive things. It is also okay to be offended by such things.

Being offended by anything just indicates you are human and have your own opinions. But just as your opinions are paramount to you, opinions that you disagree with are just as paramount to others.

We live in a society that has an ever shrinking obligation to upholding freedom. We only defend what we like, and condemn what we don't. We've stopped looking at freedom of speech and have filtered it to "socially acceptable speech".

From BLM to the KKK to innocent posts on an internet site, we are inundated with opinions and (at the same time) we are inundated with condemnation of such opinions.

Criticism is also free speech, silencing others is not.

You cannot use your freedoms to deny others of their freedoms, no matter how offensive they may appear.

I don't think people understand or respect free expression any more.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You do have the right to get punched in your mouth if you say the wrong thing to someone.

a reply to: DBCowboy


Watch the Freedom of Speech assembly on April 15th at the University of Berkeley. Then get back to me on the direction this country is going with anti fascists being the fascists and the meaning of Free Speech!


"The Fascists of the future will be called Anti Fascists."!

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: DBCowboy

You do have the right to get punched in your mouth if you say the wrong thing to someone.

Antifa supporter?

You also have the right to be arrested or have your ass handed back to ya!

a reply to: DBCowboy

Words from the wise

In the name of free speech;

Grow some # thicker skin you sensitive people!

Sorry, peace and love to all.

a reply to: DBCowboy

There's a line somewhere between self-censoring and not being an asshole.

If a person let everything they think fly with no filter, they'd probably be ostracized by most of society. Or elected president.

a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

I've never understood how people get offended.

Weak trait IMO.

Say what you want, be strong, it's easier.

I think it's when people go out of their way to offend people that it becomes borderline Rights To Ought Fallacy (ie just because you have the Right, doesn't necessarily make it right to use it in any given circumstance)...


The thread you're talking about should have been kept open in my opinion.

I was enjoying the back and forth.

I wasn't offended by the OP, despite him going out of his way to offend.

Really it's just words (or drawings) on a screen.

No big deal at the end of the day.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Civility and decorum are some of the biggest contributors to a functioning society. When you take the greedy route and proclaim that JUST because you have the right to say something then you should it causes a breakdown in society. Sure you have the right to say whatever dickish things come to your mind, but that doesn't mean you should.

And just because there are consequences for your words doesn't mean that your freedom of speech is infringed. The 1st Amendment only applies to government restricting speech. That's it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

SnF

originally posted by: kyleplatinum
I've never understood how people get offended.

Weak trait IMO.

Say what you want, be strong, it's easier.

Especially on the internet, its just words by people who want to offend mostly.'

a reply to: DBCowboy



You are so right

I have said for sometime now, and have posted on occasions that the current bias

toward *Political Correctness* is likened to a contagious decease.


More and more people are developing a penchant for, and wallowing in being

offended.


Get over it ..... you snowflakes.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
(Disclaimer; This is not a thread about ATS, it's rules, it's staff or it's management.)


A recent thread caused me to think about the right to offend.

I searched and found an essay titled, "Freedom of Speech means Freedom to Offend".

rebirthofreason.com...

It talked about many of the things I was thinking about.

With the possible exception of property, there is nothing more sacred than one's freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means the freedom to say with words, spoken or written, anything one chooses to say. It is not freedom to say only what offends no one, it is not freedom to say only what agrees with some authority's official line; it means freedom to say anything, even if everyone else in the whole world is offended by it and even if it contradicts every official doctrine of every authority that ever existed.

Self-censorship is an on-going activity in our society. We do it as to not offend. Offending someone or some group has become a crime of sorts. Sure, there are laws for libel and such, but just giving an opinion on any given topic is sure to fire someone up.
But when we self-censor, we are voluntarily denying ourselves the right to free expression.

It is okay to say offensive things. It is also okay to be offended by such things.

Being offended by anything just indicates you are human and have your own opinions. But just as your opinions are paramount to you, opinions that you disagree with are just as paramount to others.

We live in a society that has an ever shrinking obligation to upholding freedom. We only defend what we like, and condemn what we don't. We've stopped looking at freedom of speech and have filtered it to "socially acceptable speech".

From BLM to the KKK to innocent posts on an internet site, we are inundated with opinions and (at the same time) we are inundated with condemnation of such opinions.

Criticism is also free speech, silencing others is not.

You cannot use your freedoms to deny others of their freedoms, no matter how offensive they may appear.

I don't think people understand or respect free expression any more.

I can't draw but I reckon he would look like one of those guys frm Rotherham.

a reply to: seeker1963

Ah ok. The point was that if you go too far you might get hurt and that's on you. Like talking bad to a Marine or worse if you talk bad about his mother.

Cause and effect. One of the drawbacks of free speech.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

What made you think I was an Antifa supporter?

Just a generalization. The fact you seem so week that it is okay to punch someone because their words might offend you?

If someone said something untoward about your closest family member would you consider yourself weak if you kicked their ass???

Some would call that valour.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: seeker1963

Ah ok. The point was that if you go too far you might get hurt and that's on you. Like talking bad to a Marine's or worse if you talk bad about his mother.

Cause and effect. One of the drawbacks of free speech.

That I can agree with.

My big issue in todays environment of whackydoodlness is that we have people whom have taken an ideology to the extent of making it okay to assault someone for what they believe in or who they voted for?

I truly mean that in a non partisan statement and a person who really values my Constitution from those gone so far left OR right that they have become the useful idiots for those they claim to abhor?

Like I said in the other thread right before it got closed, it all boils down to intentions. If you aren't trying to offend, well too bad for the offended, and if you are trying to offend, than you are a loser.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Now and then we see groups of teens who've driven vulnerable people to their deaths by verbal harassment. Or we see hate-preachers triggering nutcases to drive vehicles into crowds. Some abuse the ideals of freedom of speech to invoke fear amongst others or to stir up hatred in their own groups. There are power relations involved here where those without power have no defence and those with the power exploit it.

Extreme examples and deliberately chosen to highlight the need for boundaries in what we say to others.

There's certainly cause for concern in recent years and especially through social media. None of us want Google, FB or whatever other platform imposing boundaries that suit them. We don't need arrogant politicians applying their own values on public discourse either.