The hidden history of Mary and Joseph

a reply to: firefromabove

Where do you get your information from,other then your imagination,at best things were assumed so how you can narrow things down to years,just a wild ass opinion at best

a reply to: xbeta

Err only in certain patriarchal communities do baby girls have no worth. Go back to pre-history and the role of women was equal to and even greater than men...we reproduced and that was vital for the continuation of the genetic line. Just look to mother nature for the true value and power of the female gender, society is nothing without women and any society that diminishes the role of women is doomed to eventual atrophy.

a reply to: firefromabove

Just wondering what your definition of apocryphal is ?

a reply to: Oldtimer2

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: firefromabove

These are Christian traditions!

No, they are not.

The New Testament does not contain this book, and nor is it's contents taught in any church.

Nice attempt to deflect from the Islamic marriage thread though.

Furthermore, regardless of the ages of marriage between the pair, Mary remained a virgin unlike Aisha. That is why she is called the Virgin Mary.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The average lifespan in ancient times was 35 but that figure was skewed by a high child mortality rate. So if a person made it to their teens it was common for people to survive to 40-50 at least. So reaching 90 or 100 was not impossible.

Old men marrying 7-10 year olds was legal even in early american history. So anyone attacking early marriages in islam or Judaism are totally ignorant of their own history. Early marriages were culturally important to ensure the well being of children. Love and happiness was of no importance because they were luxuries that could only be afforded by the elite of the time.

a reply to: Raggedyman

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: firefromabove

When the image of the virgin appeared at Tepayac to Huan Diego in 1531 she is described as appearing about 14 or 15 years of age, in many tradition's this is the age the holy spirit brought Jesus into her.
www.thoughtco.com...

I quite believe this, thank you this will give a good retort to those that argue she could not have been a virgin because of the passage about Jesus brother's and sister's, I do believe she is the immaculate conception.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: LABTECH767

Never mind, see next post.

a reply to: xbeta

What's with all the random tunes...is it supposed to mean something?

a reply to: destination now

Random? in what way?

i dont think it is appropriate to discuss language tree in this thread openly. the title wouldnt fit to it. Sometimes communication on same topics requires some 'randomness' as you put it. I believe in diversity. But they are all same subject as the title puts it. I am sorry if it bothers you.

a reply to: LABTECH767

The immaculate conception was created at a latter date (obviously after Paul's time) on the wrong interpretation of Isaiah 7:14, the word almah means young unmarried woman (so bastard son, not son of a virgin).

This I think is exactly how Jesus would have preferred to have been born . However latter Christian authorities would have seen that as a major negative in expanding Christianity to a greater audience.

a reply to: xbeta

well it's just a random bunch of songs that I don't see as having any relevance to the OP..maybe I've missed something?

a reply to: destination now

I am sorry. I am trying everything for you to not miss anything. If you miss anything, I miss something too.

still I believe you can report me somewhere if you really think it is wrong.

Okay Fire,

I will concede that Joseph was quite possibly elderly. The apocryphal book the Protoevangelism of James (non scriptural) does shed some light on your claim.

To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity. However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated "virgin of the Lord," to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).

She was a Temple Virgin and was deliberately married to an old man to look after her. She was to remain a virgin and an old man was considered a suitable guardian because, well 90 year old men have a very tiny sex drive. This was a non sexual marriage in order to solve the problem of a single pregnant Temple Virgin, which would have been scandalous.

The entire book was written in support of the Eternal Virgin claim. So it does not have any parallels with Mohammed and Aisha other than older man with younger woman. She did not lose her virginity and even you Muslims revere her.

a reply to: xbeta

I'm not offended, I just don't understand the relevance of the vids you posted in a thread about joseph being and old man and mary being a young girl..sorry, I'm not wearing my cryptic hat today, I need points to be made in more simplistic terms.

a reply to: destination now

I am sorry, I have inclination to songs too. Can you try this?

www.youtube.com...

but trust your inner feeling. even with slightet doubt, find that place to report me if inappropriate the way i communicate about the topic.

a reply to: xbeta

well I always took that song to mean that we all have power in us, we are "born this way" and we should celebrate who we are, we don't need to become what other people want us to be...well that's my interpretation.

a reply to: glend

The average lifespan in ancient times was 35 but that figure was skewed by a high child mortality rate. So if a person made it to their teens it was common for people to survive to 40-50 at least. So reaching 90 or 100 was not impossible.

Yes, in the New Testament it says:

John 8:57 "Then the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”"

jewishjournal.com...

What the Torah Says to Older People About Aging In Pirke Avot 5:24 and Psalms 90:10, God lays out His plan for how people are supposed to prepare for their life's work. Through the teen years, the Jew should study the Bible, Mishnah, the Commandments, and Talmud. By twenty, the Jew's life work begins, but he does not take positions of authority until age 30. Age 40 brings discernment, and by 50 the Jew is ready to counsel others. Not until age 60 is a man considered an elder, and is endowed with special strength at age 80.

Psalms 90:10; Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

www.lrshul.org...

At Mishnah Avot 5:24, we find the 14 Ages of Man At five years of age the study of Scriptures, At ten years of age the study of Mishnah, At thirteen subject to the commandments, At fifteen the study of Talmud, At eighteen marriage, At twenty pursuit of career, At thirty peak of achievement, At forty wisdom, At fifty able to give counsel, At sixty becoming an elder, At seventy fullness of years, At eighty for special “strength” (Psalm 90:10), At ninety body bent, And at a hundred as good as already dead and gone from the affairs of this world.

Clearly, long before Jesus' time men and women were living as long as we do today; probably just not as many.