US launches Tomahawks on Syrian airbases

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Not a lot of presumption on my part. Your responses reek of fear, regardless of what that fear is telling you.

It not "fear". some of us with working brain cells want to be 100% certain it was Assad and to think things through before we get invloved with another middle eastern mess.

Syria has been in the crosshairs for a long time. Most of my life, and Im old. Lots of reasons... but who is Trump to say no when such a ripe opportunity presents itself. He CANT. Look, Russia doesnt want to get into an occupation war either... and they see how its bled us dry. They dont have much blood left.
Whatever youre told.. or fed.. by the "news"... it isnt the whole story and youll NEVER be 100% certain of anything.

Theres only ONE country I want ( actually WANT) war with... and thats NK. Unfortunately we have to deal with China on that one. Syria is a paradise for its citizens compared to NK.. Assad is a choir boy compared to Obese Kimmy. Unfortunately we have to play the hand we are dealt. All cards come up Middle East right now.

Notice how the narrative has changed to hardware; an obvious deflection from the real problem....a potential WAR and renewed involvement in the ME.

a reply to: TheRedneck

You got that right. Too many folks seem to think EMP is this magical thing that can take anything out.

It's way too easy to harden against it, Faraday Cage against it, and block it.

Certain things will get taken out, as you can't completely protect them. But most of the major systems are protected against this very thing, and have been for many decades since we learned what nuclear EMPs could do way back when.

Several of the radar systems I worked on had quite a bit of protection against just this.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Vector99

Like talking to a brick wall.

30 year missile platform.

Well damn that Ford someone is driving must be getting close to 100 years old! It's a "Ford" platform.

Would you PLEASE educate yourself? Or go join and LEARN how these things work.

Warhead on these missile: the equivalent of a 1,000 pound bomb. That's small. My own Harpoons had a bigger warhead explosive power.

So: Small type of bomb vs. Very Big Airbase.

Takes quite a few to amass a large amount of damage.

Of course I guess Trump always could have ordered a nuke package instead of the HE warhead, that certainly would have done more damage, but I guess he showed a little bit of restraint there.

Again: Learn, you're really showing your ignorance with each post.

Gotta use the old stock first..

I dont think folks understand the scale of size VS amount destruction with a lot of the hardware. Call it a cool scary name and they think its a nuke or something. They dont get that these were very small.. and thats what you use in a surgical strike. They also dont get that we cooperate more than fight with Russia and china.. and both knew well in advance of this surgical low load strike.

a reply to: Vector99



then all those reports of USA ships sitting stranded for hours after a Russian Aircraft flew over them is just folklore?


I know I read the reports, which pointed to the fact that the Russians have a capability to override/black-out the electronics in a contained radius (say a 2 kilometer zone) that may include a aircraft-carrier or similar weapons platform


am I confusing reality with lucid dreams ?

a reply to: eriktheawful

39% accuracy rate on this strike.

23/59 missiles hit the target.

A 1000lb payload is NOT small.

Not very big airbase.

Job was a success, I guess? It achieved the goal.

We successfully pissed off the Russians, endangered future sorties, and broke off all military cooperation with Russia in Syria.

Win?

a reply to: Vector99

I'm talking about anti-aircraft inside Syria itself.

Anti-aircraft are not very effective against Tomahawks. They fly too low and too slow for the targeting systems to work well, and for radar to even detect them easily. They are very good against fighter planes, but we also have planes that can take them out from a distance if need be.

No country in the world is fully protected against attack. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. The current technology is simply too advanced. However, just like a home security system is designed to convince robbers to go elsewhere instead, a good military combined with a willingness to use it will convince attackers to find better targets.

I know several here are concerned about the 'willingness to use it' part, but there is a huge difference between being willing to fight and being anxious to fight. I'm glad we are willing; I never want us to be anxious.

TheRedneck

Renewed involvement?? We never left! New war?? Been war there with us there as long as I can remember. Damned internet just gives you a visual 24/7.

Youre doing just what the mand control box wants tough... getting all upset and fearful thinking something is more than business as usual

a reply to: Vector99

nvmd.

brick wall is a brick wall.

I don't see how this is not a win for Putin.

He got full heads up and he and Assad evacuated all men and equipment worth keeping.

He got an excuse to abandon cooperation and coordination with the US and international community.

Without coordination with Russia...the US can't continue to bomb or fly in Syria.

Trump gets a brief PR win. Putin gets Syria. It cost no troops or equipment.

What am I missing?

originally posted by: EternalShadow

There can be NO MISTAKES WHAT THE AIRCRAFT TYPE IS, WHEN IT WAS IDENTIFIED, AND WHERE IT WAS GOING!! ALL IS KNOWN WITHIN AN AO!!! WITH THAT KNOWN, WHAT'S WITH AMBIGUITY ABOUT HOW IT PLAYED OUT??? ITS NOT LIKE WE HAVE THE RED BARON UP THERE CAUSING HAVOC....EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYTHING!!!!! IS MONITORED, ANALYZED, IDENTIFIED.

SO.....a more important question would be, WHAT'S THE AIRCRAFT TYPE AND WHO KNEW THE PAYLOAD!!!!???

Understand where I'm getting at??

I'm putting out the feelers before we see the footage that will cannonize the public.

I'm haven't been following the story as closely as I can, so is it proof positive it was some kind of aircraft that dropped the chemicals? I don't see where Syria could get one in the air and not everyone know...in 2013 it was rockets, and this seems more likely in this case too.

I can see four that have something to gain here, and none of them are Assad, Trump or Putin.

1. Our own CIA outside of channels, war is job security.
2. Someone(s) in Assad military leadership to oust him.
3. (Farther fetched but there) Israel to get the US back into the Middle East in full force.
4. Someone else testing to see what Trump would do.

originally posted by: Indigo5
I don't see how this is not a win for Putin.

He got full heads up and he and Assad evacuated all men and equipment worth keeping.

He got an excuse to abandon cooperation and coordination with the US and international community.

Without coordination with Russia...the US can't continue to bomb or fly in Syria.

Trump gets a brief PR win. Putin gets Syria. It cost no troops or equipment.

What am I missing?

Youre missing that it was coordinated with Russia... completely.

a reply to: St Udio

Yes, the disabling of the USS Donald Cook (I believe that's the one?) by a Russian Sukhoi-24 is nothing but folklore. The Cook has a hardened Aegis system aboard, so an EMP wouldn't affect it anyway. If i'm not mistaken, most ships in the US naval fleet have been hardened against EMP attacks. I could be wrong on that though

a reply to: neo96

This is true, Obama dropped billions of Bombs and killed numbers of innocent men, women, and children. not to mention Lybia, and at least 7 other countries he was bombing, Hilliary was just as war-hungry

Imperialism knows no political label

a reply to: TheRedneck

You aren't getting it.

The US no longer has free flight ability in Syria. Russia might shoot them down, Syria might shoot them down. We run nearly daily sorties in Syria. With that purty piece of paper we did it without worry of Russia or Syria shooting at us, and vice versa.

Now?

Now if an American jet gets shot down, well, oh well. Russia and Syria said they won't respect a non-fire agreement anymore.

Oh yeah, I'm sure you will respond with let them try.

If Russia does it we won't do a damn thing. They have thousands of nukes pointed at us.

Our best option after this? Pack up and get out of Syria.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Vector99

nvmd.

brick wall is a brick wall.

Explain my friend, I'm all ears.

a reply to: Vector99

You don't fire 59 missiles at 59 targets. You double and triple target every missile. Some of those missiles aren't going to reach their targets, through failures, or being hit.

a reply to: crazyewok

It not "fear". some of us with working brain cells want to be 100% certain it was Assad and to think things through before we get invloved with another middle eastern mess.

We've had over a century to figure out how to not get into a Middle-Easern mess. History seems to indicate that your approach is exactly what gets us into these Midfle-Eastern messes.

We need to stay out of the area unless we're going in with guns blazing.

I wish we had never gotten involved with Iranian politics. I wish we had never gotten involved with Sadam Hussein. I wish Bush 43 hadn't started this war. I wish Obama would have tied up loose ends before leaving one area for another. I wish Obama had had the guts to actually follow through on his statements.

But that didn't happen. We're there. That cannot be changed without leaving another mess. So while you guys work your neurons silly over something others can already see clearly or details that don't matter, akin to a tourist trying to read up on animal psychology while being mauled by a lion, the rest of us want to stabilize and get the Hades outta the area.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

If it was sarin gas those first responders would be dead....

So, everything's just hunky-dory... they killed children agonizingly with 'good' poison gas.

Really? You really think that matters?

TheRedneck

Ya cause screw accuracy of information who needs to really now what's going on , let's just rush in there and kill em all!!!!

I swear no wonder Trump got elected , common sense has vacated this country

a reply to: St Udio

Both Russia and the US have some very good HPM systems, but it's very hard to shut a ship down. Those reports were blown out of proportion and exaggerated.