Helsinki Commission Condemns Pending Legal Action against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia

originally posted by: RobertConrad
Very good piece came out in the New York Times about the situation:

www.nytimes.com...

Some very enlightening news. For example Jehovah's witnesses are considered extremist because they are non-violent and are "pacifists".


"In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the putative extremism seems to derive mostly from the group’s absolute opposition to violence, a stand that infuriated Soviet and now Russian authorities whose legitimacy rests in large part on the celebration of martial triumphs, most notably over Nazi Germany in World War II but also over rebels in Syria."

Really they are being attacked first because the government knows they will not retaliate. They are non-violent and therefore it is impossible to radicalize them.

“I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks they are a threat,” said Alexander Verkhovsky, director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia. “But they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.”

And since Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, the governmental official lose no votes by attacking them:

“A big reason they are being targeted is simply that they are an easy target,” Ms. Fagan said. “They don’t vote, so nobody is going to lose votes by attacking them.”

So they are targeted because they are non-violent, politically neutral and "pacifists". (This term they use to describe the organization, which is somewhat true in the sense they refuse to go to war in whatever country they are in. But not in the sense that they do not believe in war. They believe the Bible is true regarded God's coming war of Armageddon to rid the earth of wickedness. And it will be a just war but waged not by humans, but by Jesus and his holy angels against corrupt human society.)

It also has a lot to do with Jehovah's Witnesses exposing the Russian Orthodox Church. Over the years there have been several campaigns to expose that the Church is really working for the government, and an arm of the government, and is really controlled by Satan. The Church wants to destroy Jehovah's Witnesses for exposing their true nature.

Of course that will never happen.

In fact God states:

(Isaiah 54:17)  No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah.

Interestingly enough, I thought this should be added concerning the NY Times article cited above. Notice how spies penetrated the congregation:

His troubles began, he said, when undercover security officers posed as worshipers and secretly filmed a service where he was helping to officiate in 2010.

Here they are referred to as "undercover security officers." But we know they were spying.

And it is not surprising that the government has spies pretending to be peaceful worshippers. Their spies are everywhere.

It is funny that when they took the elders to court for extremism after spying on them, they had no evidence:

Accused of “inciting hatred and disparaging the human dignity of citizens,” he was put on trial for extremism along with a second elder, Vyacheslav Stepanov, 40. The prosecutor’s case, heard by a municipal court in Sergiyev Posad, a center of the Russian Orthodox Church, produced no evidence of extremism and focused instead on the insufficient patriotism of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

(Galatians 2:4) . . .But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;

Interestingly enough I was talking to a neighbor today about the situation. We struck up a conversation. And I asked him, you lead things to their logical conclusion, what would really happen on earth if everyone was a Jehovah's Witness?

He thought a few seconds then said, 'Well I imagine there would be no more war, no more violence, no more terrorists, no more extremists, no more thievery, no more corruption.'

I nodded my head to him said, 'you reason well.'

And while it may be true that a servant of Jehovah may do something bad, they are disciplined and either repent or are shunned for their bad conduct. Even one of the 12 apostles turned out to be a traitor, Judas, and betrayed the master to his death. So it should not surprise us that from among God's own people there rise up evil people. Just as Satan himself was once an angel who turned evil. Everyone has free will.

In any case, we have already solved the problems this world is facing. And the solution is God's kingdom.

This world has no idea what to do. But we have already shown them.

a reply to: RobertConrad

And while it may be true that a servant of Jehovah may do something bad, they are disciplined and either repent or are shunned for their bad conduct.

Unless it's about child abuse. Then they just turn a blind eye and keep quiet.

IGNORE CHILD RAPE ALLEGATIONS.
CHILD ASKED TO KEEP QUIET ABOUT ABUSE BY JW
JW LEADER SHIELDING MOLESTERS
JW ELDER COMES CLEAN ABOUT SECRET SEX OFFENDER REGISTER

originally posted by: RobertConrad
Very good piece came out in the New York Times about the situation:

www.nytimes.com...

Some very enlightening news. For example Jehovah's witnesses are considered extremist because they are non-violent and are "pacifists".


"In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the putative extremism seems to derive mostly from the group’s absolute opposition to violence, a stand that infuriated Soviet and now Russian authorities whose legitimacy rests in large part on the celebration of martial triumphs, most notably over Nazi Germany in World War II but also over rebels in Syria."

Really they are being attacked first because the government knows they will not retaliate. They are non-violent and therefore it is impossible to radicalize them.

“I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks they are a threat,” said Alexander Verkhovsky, director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia. “But they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.”

And since Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, the governmental official lose no votes by attacking them:

“A big reason they are being targeted is simply that they are an easy target,” Ms. Fagan said. “They don’t vote, so nobody is going to lose votes by attacking them.”

So they are targeted because they are non-violent, politically neutral and "pacifists". (This term they use to describe the organization, which is somewhat true in the sense they refuse to go to war in whatever country they are in. But not in the sense that they do not believe in war. They believe the Bible is true regarded God's coming war of Armageddon to rid the earth of wickedness. And it will be a just war but waged not by humans, but by Jesus and his holy angels against corrupt human society.)

It also has a lot to do with Jehovah's Witnesses exposing the Russian Orthodox Church. Over the years there have been several campaigns to expose that the Church is really working for the government, and an arm of the government, and is really controlled by Satan. The Church wants to destroy Jehovah's Witnesses for exposing their true nature.

Of course that will never happen.

In fact God states:

(Isaiah 54:17)  No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah.


Interestingly enough, I thought this should be added concerning the NY Times article cited above. Notice how spies penetrated the congregation:

His troubles began, he said, when undercover security officers posed as worshipers and secretly filmed a service where he was helping to officiate in 2010.

Here they are referred to as "undercover security officers." But we know they were spying.

And it is not surprising that the government has spies pretending to be peaceful worshippers. Their spies are everywhere.

It is funny that when they took the elders to court for extremism after spying on them, they had no evidence:

Accused of “inciting hatred and disparaging the human dignity of citizens,” he was put on trial for extremism along with a second elder, Vyacheslav Stepanov, 40. The prosecutor’s case, heard by a municipal court in Sergiyev Posad, a center of the Russian Orthodox Church, produced no evidence of extremism and focused instead on the insufficient patriotism of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

(Galatians 2:4) . . .But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;

I recommend reading the NYTimes news article for further information. Of course there is much more. But it is very interesting that they are called extremists because they refuse to use violence.

originally posted by: RobertConrad

originally posted by: RobertConrad
Very good piece came out in the New York Times about the situation:

www.nytimes.com...

Some very enlightening news. For example Jehovah's witnesses are considered extremist because they are non-violent and are "pacifists".


"In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the putative extremism seems to derive mostly from the group’s absolute opposition to violence, a stand that infuriated Soviet and now Russian authorities whose legitimacy rests in large part on the celebration of martial triumphs, most notably over Nazi Germany in World War II but also over rebels in Syria."

Really they are being attacked first because the government knows they will not retaliate. They are non-violent and therefore it is impossible to radicalize them.

“I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks they are a threat,” said Alexander Verkhovsky, director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia. “But they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.”

And since Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, the governmental official lose no votes by attacking them:

“A big reason they are being targeted is simply that they are an easy target,” Ms. Fagan said. “They don’t vote, so nobody is going to lose votes by attacking them.”

So they are targeted because they are non-violent, politically neutral and "pacifists". (This term they use to describe the organization, which is somewhat true in the sense they refuse to go to war in whatever country they are in. But not in the sense that they do not believe in war. They believe the Bible is true regarded God's coming war of Armageddon to rid the earth of wickedness. And it will be a just war but waged not by humans, but by Jesus and his holy angels against corrupt human society.)

It also has a lot to do with Jehovah's Witnesses exposing the Russian Orthodox Church. Over the years there have been several campaigns to expose that the Church is really working for the government, and an arm of the government, and is really controlled by Satan. The Church wants to destroy Jehovah's Witnesses for exposing their true nature.

Of course that will never happen.

In fact God states:

(Isaiah 54:17)  No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah.


Interestingly enough, I thought this should be added concerning the NY Times article cited above. Notice how spies penetrated the congregation:

His troubles began, he said, when undercover security officers posed as worshipers and secretly filmed a service where he was helping to officiate in 2010.

Here they are referred to as "undercover security officers." But we know they were spying.

And it is not surprising that the government has spies pretending to be peaceful worshippers. Their spies are everywhere.

It is funny that when they took the elders to court for extremism after spying on them, they had no evidence:

Accused of “inciting hatred and disparaging the human dignity of citizens,” he was put on trial for extremism along with a second elder, Vyacheslav Stepanov, 40. The prosecutor’s case, heard by a municipal court in Sergiyev Posad, a center of the Russian Orthodox Church, produced no evidence of extremism and focused instead on the insufficient patriotism of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

(Galatians 2:4) . . .But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;

I recommend reading the NYTimes news article for further information. Of course there is much more. But it is very interesting that they are called extremists because they refuse to use violence.

You said that before, but I proved you wrong with
THIS
THIS
THIS

a reply to: TerryDon79
So when are you going to ban catholics and protestants? Cause there are nutcase killers in all religions.

a reply to: crazyewok

I think all violent and abusive cults should be banned.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: crazyewok

I think all violent and abusive cults should be banned.

Thats a lot of prisons you need to build. Hope you dont mind a huge tax hike!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: crazyewok

I think all violent and abusive cults should be banned.

Thats a lot of prisons you need to build. Hope you dont mind a huge tax hike!

So let's let cults run rampage because it's gonna cost too much to do anything about it?!

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: crazyewok

I think all violent and abusive cults should be banned.

Thats a lot of prisons you need to build. Hope you dont mind a huge tax hike!

So let's let cults run rampage because it's gonna cost too much to do anything about it?!

I would hardly call JW running ramapage. A a few cases of individuals becoming murders doesnt count. Thats like saying ATS runs ramapage because we once had a mass shooter on the site.

And what the difference between a cult and religion?

I would let people believe whatever they want to believe providing they obey the laws.

If anyone breaks the law punish them and lock them away but as individuals. Same with anyone that tries to obstruct the police or courts.

I don’t believe on putting people in prison for the actions of others.

I really don’t like Islam but I would not punish the millions of law-abiding Muslims in my country for actions of a few law breakers and the same with JW.

a reply to: crazyewok

You didn't look at any of the links did you?

Try reading just THIS SINGLE LINK.

They have a “2 Witness” rule, which says that anyone who accuses an adult of abuse must have a second witness. If there is no second witness, the accuser is punished for a false accusation - usually by ordering that no Witness may talk with or associate with the “false” accuser. This is called dis-fellowshipping. For a kid raised only with other Witnesses, it was horrifying. Even your parents would have to ignore you.

But it's just a few individuals, right?

a reply to: TerryDon79

So? what they do within there own religion is there own buisness. Putting enitre familys in prison because one does not like their ways is draconian.

You dont like how JW manage there affairs? WELL DONT #ING BE ONE. Simple problem solved.

Long as they obey the law of the land I dont give a #.

a reply to: crazyewok

That's the point. They DON'T obey the laws of the land. They make their OWN laws to suit their OWN needs.

By law, child molestation HAS to be reported. Regardless if there's 1 or 100 witnesses. JWs have decided they didn't like that so chose the 2 witness rule.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Then as I said. Arrest and charge any JW that have been invloved in obstructing the course of justice.

Rather than tar all 5 million odd, just arrest and charge those that have been proven to have broken the law.

a reply to: crazyewok

It's the head of the cult that decided the 2 witness rule. All the cult followers do as they're told, like good little sheep.

But it's good to know that you'll allow kids to be molested because "it's their own business".

a reply to: TerryDon79

Again what is the diffrence between a cult and religion?


And by your logic all catholics should be rounded up and imprisoned because bishops have covered up child abuse.

All muslims too seeing as so many Imans have declared Jihad.

a reply to: crazyewok

I already replied to that.

ALL murderous and abusive cults should be banned. Be it JWs, Scientology, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Pastafarians or whoever. If their cult leaders are actively covering up abuse and murder, they should be banned.

Clear enough now?

a reply to: TerryDon79

And how would such a ban work?

Very unfeasbale to me.

a reply to: crazyewok

You already came up with a solution, you just didn't like it because of a "tax hike".

But no, let's just let them do what they want. I mean, it worked well for Jonestown.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Imprisoning million/billions of Catholics, JW, Muslims ect is unfeasible and quite frankly draconian and disgusting. You pretty much putting them in prison for the action of a few/there leader s in though the vast majority have done nothing wrong. You basically making thought a crime!
What would you do with them in prison? Keep in there for life? I mean it’s a thought crime you cant rehabilitate a thought or belief.

Luckily tyrants like you are a minority.