How old is Black and White Standing for good and evil??

There is a fairly stupid myth being portrayed that not only is ridiculous, but imho provides low hanging fruit for those who don't believe in "institutional racism" and other such things exist..

People who IMHO probably do really want to help society and make the world a better place, are far too willing to ignore logical fallacies in order to have a quick and easy sound bite that sounds good as long as it backs up a cause they agree with...


For example what came first the chicken or the egg....

What Did people start referring to first??

Was it white as a symbol for good and black for a symbol of evil, or was it white as a symbol for "white people " and black as a symbol for "black people"??

Well the whole black and white dynamic is fairly recent..

A couple hundred years ago we were more than a little more segregated, with nationality having a far more central importance than today..

It used to be weather you were Irish, German, Italian except..

If I'm right, it was after we were too mixed up to still discrimate along those lines before we decided to lump all people of European ancestry into the white people box..

So I would bet that it is a far later creation than the good/evil black and white...

Hell I would even bet that the reason they decided to call peach people white and brown people black, was probably a really racist way to play off of a long standing theme of white is good and black is bad..

White and black are not even the most accurate colors you could assign to each race.. you either have to stretch it pretty far or be color blind to make that leap, lol..



So assuming all that is true, can the concept of black and white being good and evil be considered racist when it came first??

I don't think so..

I think TPTB co-optted a concept prob as old as time itself , and decided to use that fairly racist analogy to play off a pre existing belief..


So that is why attacking the good/evil concept rarely passes the smell test...and provides an easy target for shills to attack..


For instance , BLM is horrible marketing because it uses a logical fallacy in the frigging NAME!!!

Police shootings is not remotely a black only problem...and all the stats make that very clear..

More white peoples are killed by police than black.. (blacks are shot at twice they rate they should be by population) so obviously not a black only issue..

If some trailer park white kid is confronted by police, gets nervous and goes for his wallet in a freaked out moment of indecision, a lot of officers would shoot him dead too.. happens all the time..

Pushing fake points that "sound good" is not helping your chosen cause.. it is delegitimizing it..

People encounter that one stupid point and never look any deeper.. and decide your entire issue is a fraud..

White light vs Darkness of night.
Its subconscious and programmed into our brains at birth.

For humans Danger lies in the darkness of night. Not in the bright sun.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

The darkness versus the light is as old as mankind.

It was the darkness that brought predators. It was the darkness that hid enemies. It was the darkness that held the unknown.

Fire, the light, daylight, illuminated and cast aside the darkness.

If someone calls it racist, just slap them repeatedly.

I can't remember in what class i heard this first but, it goes that our fear for the dark comes from our ancestors living without light or fire. Ingrained in us. We then interpret this light vs dark differently depending on what culture you come from, add to that religion, nature, science, and dont forget human imagination.

A non race issue, I've see the black community want to be called many a thing. Black, brown, colored, negro,and the silliest, Africa American..... just more self imposed segregation

Didn't they have a myth in Ancient Egypt about the soul being weighed according to good and evil deeds, black stones were bad karma, white stones good karma?

I know the Greeks used white and black stones to vote with at one point, white stone = yay, black stone = nay.

Whomever started ascribing these monochrome colors and the whole "good/bad" dynamic to racial lines was an idiot.

It's quite literally, Black and White Thinking.

There's a whole lot of gray areas in between, as well as a whole spectrum of color.

That kind of black/white extremism doesn't sit well with anything when it comes to Human Dynamics.

originally posted by: jellyrev
White light vs Darkness of night.
Its subconscious and programmed into our brains at birth.

For humans Danger lies in the darkness of night. Not in the bright sun.

Quoted, as the kids say, for truth.

I agree - the safety of day and the dangers of night is the likely origin of that notion.

If I recall correctly the black-white duality as symbol for evil-good is found in many cultures throughout the world. Among those also cultures who had had no contact with other races, and therefore likely would not associate the white and the black with colors of the skin.

I am more comfortable in darkness.
The monsters can see you better in the light.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I am more comfortable in darkness.
The monsters can see you better in the light.

Monsters have night vision, duh.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jellyrev put's it perfectly.

I was going to say that it is as old as Abstract thought, bad thing's happen in the darkness, night predator's, attack's on people's camp's and it is far more dangerous when you can not see where you are going and any hazards in your path, this is the way that the ancient and the modern mind work.

Darkness is also a time of doing bad thing's, mounting your own attack's upon your enemy's camp's etc.

In the light of day you can see further, danger can not approach as easily and you are therefore much safer hence darkness or blackness which is the absence of light being a bad time, bad primal evil and day time when there is light being a good time or at least you can see it coming so less fear and white is the presence of light of course.

So you will find that this is and has nothing to do with racism in or at it's core and is a shared human tendancy across all tribes of mankind.

However you make an interesting point, many due to this tendancy have seen white or lighter skin as desirable due to this deep human desire for light perhaps, many wealthy African's for example traditionally would keep there woman folk indoor's or covered up (Arab's too) so that there skin would become paler, this to slaver's from these part's of the world also made white skin such as the exotic European's from the far north a prized commodity and at one time extremely wealthy often Islamic but not always so people of these nation's had harem's of woman where at least one or two would be White or Asian bought at great cost from the slave route's, because of there value in those part's of the world owning a beutiful exotic pale skinned slave was also a status symbol and more especially if she had eye's like jewels.


There is quite a bit about this slavery, the story of Asian slaves in Africa and beyond is not well versed though so only the European and ethnic Caucasoid race slaves can be more easily found about, of course this has been overshadowed by the politically correct crowds liking for blaming all the evil in the wrold on one single race (showing a distinct racist tendency upon the part of many that use those arguments) and also the more recent and truly horrible slave trade of the colonial expansion era of European culture's.
Here is a little on it.
www.ironbarkresources.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.ancient-origins.net...

Of course slavery is still going on today, it may be illegal, internationally frowned upon but there will always be victim's of this heinous tendancy of some human being's to exploit other's as if they were animal's, mere beast's of burden or sex toy's.

Well it's a bit more complex than that, in some societies, the color symbolism is reversed, white can be the color of death and mourning, eg white as a ghost, black is the color of rejuvenation or life, this is notable in some Nile valley civilizations eg Egypt the good things are the Black things, although white is also the symbol of purity, and in Asia today, minus the Christian/ western influence , most of the time it does not apply to people although it can, Red again can be seen as evil, as in the Red Devil, Set the precursor to Satan his color scheme is Red and hostile like the wild desert, but among the Yoruba in West Africa Shango's symbolic color is white.

During the middle ages an Iraqi scholar of African ancestry applied the same Black things are the good things symbolism as mentioned above only this time he applied to people, this maybe a response to growing anti black sentiments after a massive Black led slave revolt, but including others , killing thousands of people capturing Basra for some 14yrs..
he wrote.

Al-Jahiz (776-869) born in Basra :
Al-Fakhar al-Sudan min al-Abyadh (the prides of blacks over the whites)

And also: the color black always inspires the most fear. The Arabs, to describe their camels, say: “the black horses are most beautiful and most robust, the black cows best and most beautiful, and their skins are most valuable, most useful and most durable. The black ewes give the fattiest milk and creamy, moreover the dark brown ewes give more milk then the russet-red ewes”. while every stone and hill is dryer and harder the more it is black. The black lion is invincible. The black date is the highest quality. Healthy date palms have black stems. A hadith of the Prophet says : Follow the great black color.

The poet al-Ansari says: I'm in debt but I do not have to worry; Because I own tall date groves, well pruned. And every heavy laden palm seems to have been smeared with the pitch of blood of sacrificed animals. The Zanj say that the best green is the darkest green. God, may he be exalted said: And besides these there are two gardens. When describing them so as to make people long for them God called them dark green. Ibn Abbas said : they became dark green through irrigation. Black ebony is the most solid and most durable of woods. It s also most expensive , free of disease, best fit for art-work. It is so heavy that of all woods expensive and cheap ones only ebony sinks in the water. Remember that even certain stones do not sink while ebony sinks immediately. A person remains handsome as long as his hair is still black and in paradise everyone will have black hair.

The pupils of the eye, too are black and are they not the most precious part of the human body. The most expensive kohl is made of antimony which is black. This is why a hadith of the Prophet states that God will have all the faithful enter paradise hairless (on their body) beardless, and their eyes blackened with kohl. Man doesn’t have anything more useful in him than his liver, which ensures the good operation of the stomach and the digestion of food and the good functioning of the unit maintains the life of the body; however, the liver is black. Man does not have anything more valuable, more expensive in him than the black bile of his heart, a clot of black blood situated in the folds of this internal organ; it holds in this heart the same place as the brain in the head. The woman does not have anything sweeter and more pleasant than her lips, for the kiss; however, they are all the more beautiful as they are as close to the black as possible.

Du r-Rumma says (Basit): Sunk are its lips blood-colored and purple, Of the same are her gums, fine and bright her teeth. The most pleasant shade and freshest is the shade [well] black. The poet says (Ragaz): Jet black, similar to the shade projected by the stone. Humaid b. Tawr says (Tawil): We sought the shade of a cave, while our mounts Sought the wood shade shaded on which would fall the evening, Trees in the major shades, like Ascetic nuns, who prohibit the wine. Allah created, the night for the rest and recovery, and the day for the profit and the labor. One can also say that black is associated with activity as scorpions and snakes come out at night and bring their poison into the night.

This activity counts for most wild animals and also ghosts. All this happens during the night. The blacks say; we also resemble the night like this. They also say : the greatest of siestas that last the longest is in the darkness of the closed door and windows. They also say : no color is deeper and homogeneous then black. A proverb to say that something is very far : You will not see this until tar becomes white and the raven gray-haired. According to the philosophers, black is the accident that fills the area. Musk and amber are the best perfumes. Both are black; as are the hardest rock. Abu Daddil al-Jumahi said the following lines in praise of al Azzaq al Makhzumi who was called Abd Allah ibn Abd Shams ibn al Mughira. : My gratefulness to you is boundless; As long as there are rocks in the valley of the Lebanon You will be the object of praise and precious in value. Just as there is no fault in the Black Stone.

The Arabs draw glory from the black color. If an objector advances; “On what is that based, as they say: Such is of a pure white, bursting of whiteness, white and of clear face? We will answer: By this, the Arabs do not mean the whiteness of the skin, but rather the nobility and purity of character. The Hudr (of Banu) Muharib draw glory from their dark color, and people with the black dye are called among Arabs the hudr. As-Sammah b. Dirar says (Tawil): The camels leave in the evening Zarud, and [the setting sun] covered Zubala with the coat of the night. The poet says (Ragaz); Until the moment when the morning draws me from a dark night, Like the valiant knight who takes from the sleeve the well soaked sword. The Arabs qualify the iron as dark, because it is hard, and that it is dark means black. Al-Harit b. Hilliza says (Munsarih): When we force our camels from the branches of palm tree of Bahrain, A race not stopped until Al-Hisau retains them. We then put to defeat the troop of the son of Umm Qatam, The ones with the dark weapons of Persia.
sites.google.com...

It's a fascinating read.
Notable also is some of the Christian sculpture are Black or darkened like the Mary and child figures aka Black Madonna,
so time , circumstance and context do matter.
Also During Marco Polo travels he recorded the habits of some Indians who anointed their children with sesame oil as to darken them, and reported that all their gods are black and their devils white, this is a big turn around from that time where skin whiteners is one of India's biggest sellers and lite skin is all the rage.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

You make a good observation. Namely that theirs and absence of grey in between the white and black. Black might stand for wickedness ("evil) and white might stand for God. So where their is white their is god and where their is black their is the opposite. Godlessness.

If you read The bible you will see that their are many references to light and god. That is what makes the bible our holy book upon which we base our society and its cultures.

But what you ask about the grey! Well I will answer that for you the grey is of the shade that is neither white or black. It is neither good or wickedness. That is why when something is not clear like it can be sometimes someone might say things aren't always black or white?

originally posted by: jellyrev
White light vs Darkness of night.
Its subconscious and programmed into our brains at birth.

For humans Danger lies in the darkness of night. Not in the bright sun.

My thoughts as well, now why did they choose those labels to describe the races???

I kinda think it was purposefully to make the good/evil dynamic apply to the races.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JoshuaCox

The darkness versus the light is as old as mankind.

It was the darkness that brought predators. It was the darkness that hid enemies. It was the darkness that held the unknown.

Fire, the light, daylight, illuminated and cast aside the darkness.

If someone calls it racist, just slap them repeatedly.

It happens fairly often..

Such as with the StarWars hype About Vader being black , the bad guy, and a deadbeat dad.. lol

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jellyrev put's it perfectly.

I was going to say that it is as old as Abstract thought, bad thing's happen in the darkness, night predator's, attack's on people's camp's and it is far more dangerous when you can not see where you are going and any hazards in your path, this is the way that the ancient and the modern mind work.

Darkness is also a time of doing bad thing's, mounting your own attack's upon your enemy's camp's etc.

In the light of day you can see further, danger can not approach as easily and you are therefore much safer hence darkness or blackness which is the absence of light being a bad time, bad primal evil and day time when there is light being a good time or at least you can see it coming so less fear and white is the presence of light of course.

So you will find that this is and has nothing to do with racism in or at it's core and is a shared human tendancy across all tribes of mankind.

However you make an interesting point, many due to this tendancy have seen white or lighter skin as desirable due to this deep human desire for light perhaps, many wealthy African's for example traditionally would keep there woman folk indoor's or covered up (Arab's too) so that there skin would become paler, this to slaver's from these part's of the world also made white skin such as the exotic European's from the far north a prized commodity and at one time extremely wealthy often Islamic but not always so people of these nation's had harem's of woman where at least one or two would be White or Asian bought at great cost from the slave route's, because of there value in those part's of the world owning a beutiful exotic pale skinned slave was also a status symbol and more especially if she had eye's like jewels.


There is quite a bit about this slavery, the story of Asian slaves in Africa and beyond is not well versed though so only the European and ethnic Caucasoid race slaves can be more easily found about, of course this has been overshadowed by the politically correct crowds liking for blaming all the evil in the wrold on one single race (showing a distinct racist tendency upon the part of many that use those arguments) and also the more recent and truly horrible slave trade of the colonial expansion era of European culture's.
Here is a little on it.
www.ironbarkresources.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.ancient-origins.net...

Of course slavery is still going on today, it may be illegal, internationally frowned upon but there will always be victim's of this heinous tendancy of some human being's to exploit other's as if they were animal's, mere beast's of burden or sex toy's.

I would bet the racial addition to the white/black dynamic was a self fulfilling prophecy..

It was Europeans who were in charge at the time, and they viewed themselves as the good guys, while wanting to villinize any "others"...

So if your the one choosing , are you gonna ascribe the "bad guy" motif to your own tribe???

Nope..


I absolutely think the racial black/white is racist..

However , I don't think the good/evil , black/white ever was..

I think they used the age old concept as propaganda By associating us with good and them with bad by assigning those very specific colors already "loaded " colors.

So I think referring to peach/tan people as white and brown people as black is and always was racist, however the good/evil part isn't..

a reply to: LABTECH767

Obviously Europeans didn't do anything new with slavery...every person on the planet's ancestors were slaves AND kept slaves you just gotta go back a hair farther...accept maybe only allowing one race to be enslaved, where in most cultures with slavery everyone but your race could be slaves...

Which is kinda a specific kind of evil because of the pile on effect.. now your race isn't better than everyone else's, instead it is one race that is worse than everyone else.

I think it is fair to point fingers at European slavery because it has cast the biggest shadow, mainly because of it being the most recent institutional form of slavery, but still. When you have set up a system where Europeans have been collecting wealth through inheritance for a millinia, and no African American before the last couple generations recieved ANY INHERITANCE AT ALL..

No AA (or such a small percentage it might as well be no) received land, or a trust fund, nor a buisness.

Every single one had to start from scratch... and then had to do that after a dozen generations of being not only considered, but "scientifically" confirmed to be lesser life forms..

So is it any real surprise that they aren't real happy with the way it all went down???

That said the hypocracy in allowing BET and not White ET, and other such things IMHO provides easy fodder for those who would still prefer to keep them second class citizens..

a reply to: Spider879

I wonder if it doesn't have to do with black skin being an advantage??

Dark skin means no skin cancer and gives the ability to better hide from predators..

What benifit does lite skin have?? Better vitamin E consumption???

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Black is bad and white is good is a dualistic idea that dates back to Zoroastrian mythology and later Jewish, Christian and Muslim mythologies.

a reply to: jellyrev

Conversely before birth we are in darkness and safe in the placenta - and then we scream upon entering the Light

a reply to: FuggleHop

You make a good observation. Namely that theirs and absence of grey in between the white and black. Black might stand for wickedness ("evil) and white might stand for God. So where their is white their is god and where their is black their is the opposite. Godlessness. If you read The bible you will see that their are many references to light and god. That is what makes the bible our holy book upon which we base our society and its cultures.

Silly...semitic people are lightly tanned, definitely not white - or haven't you looked past Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel?