Is the Jewish Race of Sumerian Origin?

Reasonable ideas of an interesting topic.


I might add that the term Jew is from the later Tribes of Israel AFTER THEY WERE SPLIT UP AND 10 of them lost to history THE TRIBE OF Judea became the main rulers in a part of Israel. Over the years, they obviously began to internalize and combine their “Jewish” faith with their tribal identity” there by creating Judaism. Abraham WAS NOT A JEW! None of them were really Jews since the term comes from a later tribal term that didn’t even exist at the time of Abraham. The term is from one of the 12 tribes from Jacob or Israel who was the son of Issac, and grandson of Abraham. Abraham had two sons, Ismael and Issac. Issac is known as the progenitor of the Hebrews through Jacob or Israel and Ishmael the progenitor of the Arabs Muslims...Both are thought to be Semetic.

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
How would translating documents from Akhenaten's days prove that the character of Moses wasn't based on him?

Because it gives his lineage (different from Moses) and personal history (different than Moses) and we even have his mummy (from a cache in the Valley of the Kings. He never left Egypt.

Also, his version of monotheism is different than early Judaism (or late judaism, for that matter.)

It's widely accepted as fact that Akhenaten was a real historical figure based on physical evidence, but what evidence do we have for Moses' existence outside of The Bible?

None so far, and the Biblical accounts do not match Egyptian history (no plagues as described, cemeteries do not support plague hypothesis, etc.

a reply to: Revolution9

It is becoming apparent that Palestine was a metropolitan center before the time of the conquest, or the tribes of Israel showing up/taking over the area. Writing was already going on in earnest. In fact they were the peoples who developed the modern alphabet, or aleph=bet type writing. There would have been scribes writing in multiple languages.

What happened during the exile was they wrote their theology that we have today. Much of it was to combat the Babylonian gods and myths. The creation story is a clear rebuttal/reworking of the Babylonian myth. They also covered over their real history as followers of Yahweh and his Ashera, with their son the divinized king (idealized in Solomon)

a reply to: zardust

Funny thing is....thre is a certain gene associated with jews...all jews no matter where they are from. Even in a group from south africa that claims jewish ancestry. Search J Kohanim gene.

double

a reply to: Wrapscalllion

Yep which corresponds to post exile jews, not to pre-exile, which was a very different mix. Remember that only Judah and Benjamin and their levites returned to Palestine. The tribes were not all descended from Jacob. They may all have been semitic, though Dan and Naphtali seem to be more Aegean. Manasseh and Ephraim may have been Egyptian, or possibly half egyptian half canaanite.

originally posted by: Wrapscalllion
a reply to: zardust

Funny thing is....thre is a certain gene associated with jews...all jews no matter where they are from. Even in a group from south africa that claims jewish ancestry. Search J Kohanim gene.

Have you actually done your own due diligence regarding this claim? Sure there are some very sketchy sources that appear to support your contention but the actual scientific sources seem to deliver a rather different message. feel free to provide your own citations though instead of telling others to do your leg work for you.

A) A jewish is not a race, its a religious affiliation, passed down via materal lineage.

B) Sumer was a multi-ethnic society, with the Sumerians living in the cities and villiages, while the nomadic semetic speaking pre hebrew herdsmen set up camps just out side of town. The same severe drought that caused the downfall of the akkadian empire also caused these nomadic people move out side of mesopotamia to find new pastures, for their flocks.

C) early groups associated with the pre hebrews were also multi ethnic, groups later know as "tribes" of israel.
Think of the early pre hebrews as a sort of "gypsy" society of herdsmen, masons and mercenaries.


D0 These people aren't considered Hebrews until they accepted the covenant of Abraham, and not jewish until they accepted the covenant of Moses. In fact after the Exodus and all of Moses' railing against false gods and graven images, a majority of the israelits were still polytheistic. Even while building the first temple, a second temple, to Baal, was being built to accomodate the non jewish israelites.


I had the good fortune to watch a UC lecture, by one of the worlds foremost jewish theological historians. It was a fascinating 3+ hrs. He mostly covered the origins of Judaism through the acceptance of the covenants, which he likend to a legal contract. In fact most of the early "rules" for living have more to do with legally binding agreements between parties than they do with theological issues.

a reply to: Revolution9

being Jewish is a religious term now, at one time it was also known as a nationality from the nation/ Kingdom of Judah.

from the wiki,

The term Jew passed into the English language from the Greek Ioudaios and Latin Iudaeus, from which the Old French giu was derived after dropping the letter "d", and later after a variety of forms found in early English (from about the year 1000) such as: Iudea, Gyu, Giu, Iuu, Iuw, Iew developed into the English word “Jew.” It thus ultimately originates in the Biblical Hebrew word Yehudi meaning "from the Tribe of Judah ", "from the Kingdom of Judah ", or " Jew ".

the people of middle east or better known as the Levant, are Semitic descendants of Shem Noah's son. all Arab nations and most of Jews are genetically related and ironically the Palestinians are the closest of the Arabs to the Jews. after all you have to do is think about Ishmael there have been a few studies that show this,
from the wiki,

One study found that Jews and Palestinians are closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews are to non-Jewish Europeans or Africans.[18][19][113][113] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Israeli and Palestinian Arabs and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
Genetic studies on Jews

and one study,

"Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," says Harry Ostrer, M.D., Director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, an author of the new study by an international team of researchers in the United States, Europe, and Israel. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years," he says.

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

so all the hate is just brotherly love.

Jews still aren't a race

If he use the word race in the sense on mation (the translation of the hebrew goy) , then they are a race.
Same with the word ethnicity.

Palestine is a roman name for the area , so before roman time no one used the name (it came from the name for an Aegean people the Philistines who conquered the Mediterranean coastal plain).

a reply to: Revolution9

Abraham is the first Jew proper

Wrong. Terminology is key here. You must know this. Abraham was not the first Jew.

First Jews were the sons of Judah, who's brothers were the first Israelites (12 sons of Israel/Jacob).

Do you have anything to say for yourself? Rephrase your Question please!

a reply to: combatmaster

your close, they are the descents of Jacob son's who's name was changed to Israel by God after Jacob refused to let God go until he blessed him. they still didn't have a homeland when they went to eygpt, and were still known as the Hebrew.
when they left and split there were two nations, Israel and Judah.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thats what i said



I wanna see when revolution9 sees the paradox he created. I sincerely hope he tries to rephrase the question, it will lead him to an epiphany.

a reply to: Revolution9

No he (?) is not. He is pointing out that everything you will call Jewish, is not based on DNA, but rather based on culture, language etc. There is no DNA for individual religions, or as far as we know ANY religion. If there was, you could silence the gene, or it might mutate at a moments notice. QED Jewish is not a race. IF you disagree, please post the genetic sequences of "jewish genes". K thanks bye.

Jews and Mexicans are not races. Plain and simple. One is a nationality, the other a religion.

There is only one race, and that is H. Sapiens. All other races have gone extinct, leaving only H. Sapiens alive to represent humans. And like dogs, we are widely varied in how we look. But none of us can claim to be anyting other than "human" without invoking the arbitrary borders that humans have made.

Population genetics of the Jewish people show an amalgam of traits that are carried by most Jews and can be distinctly identified. If you go to the 23andMe website you can find information on the specific genes which identify Ashkenazi Jews (of which I am one). They're actually from the Middle East originally although they are primarily associated with Eastern European Jews. It's just part of the diaspora.

As to the term "race", with all the overlap in the chromosomal makeup of people on this planet, I would have to say that "race" is probably an antiquated term. We're all human, as another poster said. There are definitely distinct populations of humans with unique genetic characteristics. But not sure we should divide them up by "race" anymore. Just my opinion.

This is an interesting paper about Jewish population genetics.

The population genetics of the Jewish people
Harry Ostrer and Karl Skoreckicorresponding author
Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ►

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...