Dear Scotland,

a reply to: uncommitted

United Nations Articles 1 and 55

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples

a reply to: bigyin

Yes.
The internationally recognised supreme nation state is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
That's junior school geography really.

a reply to: ZIPMATT

I guess so ! so be it , it only really sucks for people who are gullible enough to fall for that divisive bs
I couldnt care less if they said Scotland was officially not a country , its only people with extreme ego
that get bothered by these things , their ego is bruised when something they are patriotic about gets slandered

and just like them you too are falling for it hence the reason you brought it up because for some reason you seem to believe that England is wayyyyyyyy better than Scotland , as you seem quite happy to continue along this vein of division

this whole " we are better than you" "Scotland isnt even a country" nonsense

what do you hope to achieve ? wind up some scottish ATS members and see if they will start a wee war with you on who is the bestest, im not 100% but you'd maybe have more luck with this on facebook or twitter.

originally posted by: bigyin
a reply to: uncommitted

United Nations Articles 1 and 55

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples

I can't agree that could be used as a basis for a referendum in this scenario, it would have been equally applicable on the first referendum.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ZIPMATT

I guess so ! so be it , it only really sucks for people who are gullible enough to fall for that divisive bs
I couldnt care less if they said Scotland was officially not a country , its only people with extreme ego
that get bothered by these things , their ego is bruised when something they are patriotic about gets slandered

and just like them you too are falling for it hence the reason you brought it up because for some reason you seem to believe that England is wayyyyyyyy better than Scotland , as you seem quite happy to continue along this vein of division

this whole " we are better than you" "Scotland isnt even a country" nonsense

what do you hope to achieve ? wind up some scottish ATS members and see if they will start a wee war with you on who is the bestest, im not 100% but you'd maybe have more luck with this on facebook or twitter.

hey hey chill . The topic here is about we are leaving the European Union together . As a country called the UK . I'm not getting at anyone, but admit a little mild ptsaking yes , of the scots . Someone else was playing nasty on this thread though

Overall the point here is that the Sturgeon ,, Salmond , the SNP effectively are trying to stop Brexit , mainly for their own reasons , not Scotlands per se. They are getting in the way for the same reasons others in English politics are too : their affiliations or their need for the status quo as it has been , to continue .

Can you see how 2 faced and divisive it is, to on one hand want to break up the UK , and on the other hand , to want to keep Scotland / the UK inside the European Union ? Against the wishes of the UK as a whole ? Are there in fact EPP/EU affliliates lurking in the SNP , stalking the governments plans to exit the EU with sabotage in mind ? And there are the players from that same side in parliament , who are not from Scotland .

So it's Sturgeon which Evan started this thread on . It might have read, Dear Scotland , Sturgeon is a plant in the employ of the EPP , who do not want to see Britain leave their clutches , since about 2009 , when the conservative party decided to leave the EPP , and possibly resolved to break up the EU at the same time . Something that needs to happen imo , because it cannot be up to one party , the EPP , to run the entire shebang , as they do presently. Its a shame that state of affairs developed , because there could have been good aspects of the EU , benefits for all of us . But the way it has turned out , aka top down domination by one party: the EPP , is politically very dangerous to the future , to the citizens of Europe , to democracy , as they caused democracy to dry up , and got very demanding already.

It's absolutely ok to have been under illusions about the status of Scotland , and when you come to understand , as the others will , you indeed thank Cameron and Osborne , for being clever old boys . Although this would seen as anathema to most , they have masterminded historical changes in the last few years, changes we needed badly .

a reply to: ZIPMATT

You really don't know much about Scotland do you. It was a country for a thousand years before it was sold out by wealthy landlords to be subservient to England against the wishes of the people.
Since then the people of Scotland have been trying to get their country back.
Scotland had a referendum in 1978 the result was

Yes 1,230,937 (51.6%)
No 1,153, 502 (48.4%)
Rejected ballot papers 3,133
Electorate 3, 747,112
Turnout 63.6%

A result similar to what happened in Brexit vote only this time the 52% were denied their right by way of a clause which said 40% of the electorate must vote. You tell me why we didn't get what we voted for that time.

You can read the full history of Scotland trying to get it's country back HERE

a reply to: eletheia

the british news is biased as anything, the only reason why the english want to keep hold of us is for our oil, without that they have nothing to barter with. This is the reason why the new vote has been asked for, to stop Mayhem using our resources as bargining chips, especially our fishing grounds.

a reply to: bigyin

Nice impartial source you quoted there. The key parts of any referendum is the phrasing of the question and the setting of the parameters for victory. I'm sorry but the agreement was that if less than 40% of the total electorate voted yes then it would not carry. Turnout was 64% of the electorate with only 32.9% of the electorate backing independence.

Conditions of victory agreed in advance by both sides.

Never mind the inclusion of under 18s in the last referendum - not legally able to vote in any other area.

I have no particular party that I am 100% in favour for at this time, I am not happy with what is happening here in Scotland with regard to what’s happening with our local NHS service, (in England it is even worse!) but in the last elections I put my X in the SNP box as they were the only truly Scottish party who were offering me the chance of gaining a voice by standing up for Scotland in Westminster, which they do over and over again and I take my hat off to the MP ‘s down there who day in day out try to get the best results for the people of Scotland.
Despite having a near absolute majority within Scotland, the SNP are crudely side-lined, shouted down and outvoted with regards to their representation of the nation, by both Tories & Labour -the reality of that is that there is now a near total irrelevance in Scottish representation to Westminster.
There is no Scottish Labour Party or Scottish Conservative Party representing what’s best for Scotland in Holyrood or Westminster, both are not independent of their parent party and are in reality British Labour/British Cons who toe the line and fall in with whatever their masters in Westminster tell them to do even if it is detrimental to us here in Scotland.
Westminster has our government here in Scotland hog tied, the funding cuts that are imposed on us and the way they have rigged the devolved matters mean our Government are unable to run this country for the betterment of us all who live here.
As long as Scotland is completely ignored by Westminster we should have a right to referendum.
The Unionist parties don’t want us to have another referendum as they know dam well that they will be held to account for the lies they told in order to win the 2014 referendum.
A union of 4 with all the power being held by 1. By definition, thats not a union.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Maybe if Scotland does leave the UK she will have more time on her hands to concern herself with things that really matter.

As far as I'mconcerned, much as UKIP should disband post-Brexit, the SNP should disband once Sxotland achieves independence, as they will have fulfilled their purpose...

originally posted by: EvanB
a reply to: djz3ro

You are not being chewed up by Westminster, in fact you are being economically propped up by Westminster in terms of money per head, because the treacherous SNP has squandered the money sent from hard working tax payers in England..

You only have to look at the constituency she supposed to represent which is definitely going to the dogs whilst she struts the world stage, like today she is off to America for an ego boost.. Whilst people in her home town are struggling.

She does not care about your everyday struggles and does NOTHING about them!!

It beggars beliefe you could support such a woman or a party that in the long run is creating so much division on top of the fact they have already proven many times over that they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery!!

Scotts I thought were too canny to fall for that crap, and they are!!

They voted to stay in the union

In a "once in a generation " vote

And many, the less vocal gob#es which is the majority don't want another referendum and are sick of sturgeon and the racist SNP

You need to do some research and come back when you know what you're talking about. As it stands you don't really have anything to bring to the table, sorry...

a reply to: ZIPMATT

Aye nae bother man , I just think far too many people in this thread and most every other thread on ATS people spend far too much time trying to one up each other rather than looking at the facts

so many in this thread not even bringing any points up for discussion more just trying to flex their intellectual superiority to demean others

it's the same in nearly every thread and its detrimental to the discussion at hand.

I see you mention the EPP and sturgeon , do you have anything more to go on that she has been selected specifically to sort out the brexit thing with the EU by the EPP , do you have any evidence of this?

Also my main reason for independence vote was to rid ourselves of corruption from westminster and the unelected house of lords and to get as far away from the tory party as humanly possible and the city state of London!

you know because corporatism isnt a good thing in any case , just ask mussolini

ive had a bone to pick with labour and the tories for more than a decade well since I was able to vote , but we are getting no where with those parties and SNP at the time had my only solution the independence vote so we can create our own constitution and protect the people from corruption and corporatism and big banks!

but that fell flat on its face because the media and political parties appealed to the base human egoic desire of greed!

what about your pockets , how will they fair in post indy ref ?
and everyone shat a brick

shame we cant use all these bricks we are #ing to build houses for all these refugees

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: uncommitted
Maybe if Scotland does leave the UK she will have more time on her hands to concern herself with things that really matter.

As far as I'mconcerned, much as UKIP should disband post-Brexit, the SNP should disband once Sxotland achieves independence, as they will have fulfilled their purpose...

I wouldn't want to express an opinion on that. What I do hope is that when the referendum date is set (I personally don't think it was ever an if - but the timing originally set out by Sturgeon was naive) then I hope we don't get the mouth frothing nonsense on here from those at the extreme ends of the spectrum. We are already seeing it where posters are talking about the 'hate' being shown to Scotland whereas I can't see any such evidence - certainly in that direction.

Oh, and if a certain person starts more two word posts "tick tock" weeks before the election, I hope they are a little fairer minded this time if the clock stops and the decision didn't go their way.

originally posted by: weemadmental
The british news is biased as anything,

You obviously didn't read my complete post..... As I stated ALL people interviewed

were Scots so how was it biased?

The only reason why the english want to keep hold of us is for our oil, without that they have nothing to barter with. This is the reason why the new vote has been asked for, to stop Mayhem using our resources as bargining chips, especially our fishing grounds.

The English and Scots were united by monarchy (the crown) for one hundred years

before the were joined by the union of parliaments. So which ever way you look at

it they were united as Great Britain 250 to 350 plus years before the discovery

of oil in Scotland.


en.wikipedia.org...

The UK Continental Shelf Act came into force in May 1964. Seismic exploration and the first well followed later that year. It and a second well on the Mid North Sea High were dry, as the Rotliegendes was absent, but BP's Sea Gem rig struck gas in the West Sole Field in September 1965.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: eletheia

I have to agree with you there

the one reason we are good for great Britain for all those years is that we were fighting able men
to serve the empire and the king !
and of course all that empty land !

a reply to: djz3ro

That is correct. I've been SNP member since the 1970's but as soon as Scotland is Independent the SNP can give up.

a reply to: DrBobH

Just so you know The Scotsman Newspaper was against independence for Scotland at the last referendum in 2014. It's for that reason that nobody here buys it anymore and last I heard it's about to go bust along with The Daily Record another anti Scottish rag.

a reply to: sapien82

Sturgeon and EPP : no evidence , because it would be a covert relationship , if the snp are not officially affiliated .

Being pro-Europe needs must in these days , to be pro EPP .

If you support the EU , you support a single party state , as it stands at the moment , the EPP have _all the power, they run the whole thing .

If they didn't I don't think anyone would have seen a need to get us out . Half , if not nine tenths of the people who voted to brexit , I expect , don't even know this is the problem . They dont even know what the EPP is ¬ !

But yes Europe is being ruled by a single political entity , the EPP . If you're pro EU , you must be pro EPP , or pretty ignorant like the rest of most people . Its not their fault , but I'm even considering that the BBC is in fact still the tool of the EPP (in its hands) , as part of European state media , they would want to control it . It would be why the bbc are so crap at showing people what has really been going on . Would explain alot actually ...

would certainly explain why all these people with opinions about europe , dont even know what the EPP is ,o r what it means to be ruled over by them.

Clue to why England won't let us go without a fight

a reply to: bigyin

when its laid out like that its pretty obvious why we are to remain a part of the UK