While we're goofing around chasing Russian ghosts, Venezuelans just watched democracy collapse

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

It's such a shame. I really loved Hugo Chavez in the beginning and Venezuela always was my dream destination and now... it breaks my heart how the people there have to suffer.

What I did read was that the business classes turned off the money and the problems stemmed from that.

When your livelihood is tied up in your assets and you did work hard for that and you have a government that suddenly turns predatory and is liable to paint you as the enemy basically scapegoating you for this or that failure and shortage and seize everything you have on a whim ... you can bet you'd leave the country before it's too late too.

Id start storming the gates well before I had to eat my horses and shoes... or neighbors. Then again I guess after a while of socialist or communist rule, folks forget they CAN fight back and wait for more government to fill their bellies.

a reply to: ketsuko

But what really happened was privately owned oil, mostly from white not Venezuelan in origin people, was turned into state property, to pay for housing, education and medicine for the actual population.
Then the rats left the ship and Venezuela got isolated economically as punishment for Chavez attempt to help the indigenous people.
All with the support of the US.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ketsuko

But what really happened was privately owned oil, mostly from white not Venezuelan in origin people, was turned into state property, to pay for housing, education and medicine for the actual population.
Then the rats left the ship and Venezuela got isolated economically as punishment for Chavez attempt to help the indigenous people.
All with the support of the US.

The US has been meddling the affairs of Venezuela ( among other SA countries) for muuuuuch longer than Chaves' nonsense.

a reply to: Peeple

What really happened is that chavistas stole billions of government money and expropriated most private business before conducting them to ruin to steal a few bucks more.

a reply to: Peeple

Actually what happened was the state nationalized the oil industry and then was incompetent to run it. And while the high price of oil was sufficient to keep it afloat even then for a time, the emerging energy market in other countries eventually tanked that revenue and there was no other factor to keep the economy going. So Venezuela did not even have that.

It's the same story that saw Zimbabwe stop being the breadbasket of Africa. Mugabe seized the land from the landowners who knew how to farm it and awarded it to his supporters and cronies who knew nothing of farming but wanted the land anyhow to right wrongs from the past. And the result is modern Zimbabwe where starving children now come to school.

a reply to: Advantage

Does that make it better in any way?

a reply to: Indigent

No up to 2002 he kept his promises, trying to alphabetise his population, because he knew that was the only long term way out of poverty for them.
You can't blame Chavez for the corrupt retards that followed him.
Or that he got slightly paranoid and off track after the events in 2002.

a reply to: ketsuko

Sorry no, it was sabotage by the US the entire time. Because they couldn't allow a successful socialist country on their drug route.

a reply to: Peeple

Riiiiight, as if socialist government aren't just as corrupt as our own.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Advantage

Does that make it better in any way?

a reply to: Indigent

No up to 2002 he kept his promises, trying to alphabetise his population, because he knew that was the only long term way out of poverty for them.
You can't blame Chavez for the corrupt retards that followed him.
Or that he got slightly paranoid and off track after the events in 2002.

No, and I didnt even hint at that, so I have NO idea why youd ask a question like that. What question you SHOULD be asking is.. was it the indigenous thing youre claiming... or was there direct interference by the US before and during Chavez's rule.. IE oil and etc. All of the answers are there if you want to search for it.

a reply to: Indigent

Look I'm not at all making fun of anything here. I appreciate your input but he was elected for the very socialist programmes he started. By the poor majority.
If your family lost a few possessions during his time you were on the wrong side from the get go.
As proven by you now comfortably living in Chile (?) while most of your countrymen starve.

a reply to: Peeple

Sorry no, it was sabotage by the US the entire time. Because they couldn't allow a successful socialist country on their drug route.

Yeah ensuring the successful drug trade pays dividends to the CIA and other "democratic" cronies would be a key consideration. Maybe Chavez upset someone on Wall St

a reply to: Peeple

Stop showing your ignorance, stop assuming where I live, stop spreading lies, read what actually Chavez did and how just one of her daughters have $4 billion on stolen Venezuelan people's money.

a reply to: Indigent

Because he got death threads and wanted to make sure his family could survive. I only defend him up to 2002 and I don't know how often I have to repeat that?
If the US wouldn't have staged that almost coupe things would have been very differently.

I'm arguing what ifs here so I don't know how you can call that a lie?
[SNIPPED]

Yup, let's nationalize the only thing making us money, and after that, we should put people with no clue in charge of it!

a reply to: Peeple

[SNIPPED] Chavez was a thief, he is the sole responsible of all of the current Venezuela problems.

The coup you keep saying had nothing to do with USA, USA didn't care about Venezuela during all those years, Chavez blamed the empire for everything but USA don't care, why? Chavez kept business as usual selling oil to USA, they where the only paying customers after all.

The coup was a purge instigated by Chavez to consolidate power.

[SNIPPED]

a reply to: Indigent

Sure, if it helps you sleep at night.

I don't think it will effect the price of coffee too much. I mean, that trail of thought is important.

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What do invested interests have to gain for caring? Nill to none, it's been used up, a thrown away "banana republic". It's horrid, no doubt, where do these people have to turn? Sure many will try to escape, some fallen into human trafficking and many sadly will not be accepted anywhere due to country's having their problems with citizens and much more.