Did Eve have sex with Lucifer in the Garden of Eden?

a reply to: dfnj2015
If you read the Bible, there is no apple and God is not omnipotent.
He does not even know where Adam is!

a reply to: DISRAELI

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Even the most literal interpretation of Genesis makes that true only about humans. Nobody ever suggests that animal life in general was descended from them.
There were other snakes because animals were created in multiples, and were told to "be fruitful and multiply".

Yeah, but literal animal snakes produce other snakes.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
I thought it was obvious enough. Snakes bruise the heels of men by biting them. Men bruise the heads of snakes by treading on them. That is what happens, yes? That is what the comment is talking about.

Yes, but we are talking literal snakes here…right…? as in the animal…

But the line about crushing the head and striking the heal is in relation to the Serpent and Eves offspring, mentioned in Genesis 3:15…that’s clearly not talking about animal snakes mixing with other snakes, to produce more snakes…

Originally posted by DISRAELI
In one of my replies to the OP, I suggested "splitting" the interpretation, making the "serpent tempted Eve" metaphorical, and the bruising business literal. The "bruising" comment is an "origin" story, explaining something that is observed in real life.

But why make one metaphorical and the other literal…?

If the snake can literally bruise, then surely it can literally tempt Eve as well…

How are you drawing the line between making one literal, and the other metaphorical…?


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
Yeah, but literal animal snakes produce other snakes.

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

But why make one metaphorical and the other literal…?

If the snake can literally bruise, then surely it can literally tempt Eve as well…

How are you drawing the line between making one literal, and the other metaphorical…?

I am drawing the line by looking for the interpretation that makes the most sense, and leaves the whole thing least tangled.
The basic story of the temptation is an aetiological, or "origin", story, explaining the origin of death and everything else that is wrong with the world. A metaphorical snake is introduced for the purpose. Once there's a "snake" element in the story, the writer takes the opportunity of attaching to it an observation about literal snakes in their relationship with men and including that in the explanations.

You do realize that both Jesus and Lucifer are described as the same entity in the bible don't you?

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

In other versions it has "morning star" replacing Lucifer. It is widely held that Lucifer is who Isaiah was speaking of.

Revelation 22
16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Jesus then refers to himself as the morning star.

Lucifer means "light bringing". What did Jesus claim to bring?

John 12
46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

He claimed to bring light to the world.

Lucifer and Jesus represent the same thing except Lucifer has been given a bad rap so that people will reject the light in my opinion while believing in a false light that they cannot personally see.

a reply to: DISRAELI

snake or "serpent / seraph" meant something else at the time, something human of course. it was translated over and over and over and ended up being an evil slithering snake in the garden. Im sure "apple" meant something else as well.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: SLO31B

Eve loved learning and she heard a new term, from the "snake".

Now if you were a lover of learning and you just figured something out that could expand your mind for miles would YOU just say "no thank you, im in bliss right now and do not need to know more, bye"

She HAD to do it, she ate the apple, or had sex with the snake, or whatever she did.

Im glad she did it too bc i wouldnt want a perfect blissful world where everyone was the same. That is my evil talking, we all have a little.

Because of the statements you made above I will tell you this about me:

I surrender and give up my own free will. Period. I do not need it nor do I want it. Why?

Doing the will of God is him taking care of you and all your needs so who needs free will when everything you need can and will be provided to you...guaranteed.

I often hear many say they do not want to live forever....hmmm.... I always found that to be weird because I always want to live forever.... never boring.... going from planet to planet, colonizing worlds....etc.... never a boring day. becoming masters in all of the arts, sciences, various hundreds of PhD and doctor titles.... alone the education and being able to master all that is known ....how long would that take? Then maybe ....just maybe .... I might get bored...

We have free will if you surrender it or not. it was your free will to surrender your free will.

andyways, we do have to have faith and surrender. I am not christian, but I surrender to the universe, karma, everything has a reason and what you need will come to you in some form or another.

About living forever...no thank you. Maybe it would be nice to live longer but I do not want to see my children die, my grandchildren die, all my friends. Death is what makes life worth living.

But on another subject...we ALL live forever bc...reincarnation. We are constantly reborn. We actually never die. Creepy i know, but super cool.

a reply to: veracity
The writer who brought together the two elements of "tempting serpent" and "heel-biting serpent" obviously thought of them as the same word.
The fruit in the story is not named at all, and is certainly not named as an apple. It is described as "knowledge of good and evil"- that is, the ability to determine the boundary line between them.

a reply to: DISRAELI

who is this writer? or was it many?

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: DISRAELI

who is this writer? or was it many?

They are called the Doctors of the Church.

a reply to: veracity
The writer is not known by name.
Modern scholars have put a lot of work into analysing the different sources involved in the Pentateuch, and the Eden story is part of a longer narrative which commonly goes under the label "J". Probably put together in the time of the earlier kings of Judah.

a reply to: DISRAELI


Do you have any links, where One could read;

"label "J".

a reply to: SLO31B
Here's a Wiki on the topic;
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: DISRAELI


Thank you ever so much.

Adam is the left side of the brain, eve is the right side of the brain, the spine is the snake, the penial gland is the Apple of good and evil. The pituitary glad is the Apple of life.

Sperm/ovas would rise up the spine, go to the Apple of good and evil, and of life, then eve and Adam (left and right brain) would take a bite of both. they transform into a higher soul after becoming like "god".

this or I just made up chit. (lol the word chit)

The snake was probably an early sex toy that Adam caught Eve using and got cross. He thought he was the big man.

Then they wrote a book and said, 'Only idiots will believe this junk'.

Then history happened and Adam and Eve looked down at humanity, looked across at God sheepishly and said, 'Woops'.

But God didn't chide them, because then he would prove he exists, which he would rather never do for some reason.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Wouldn't you probably go home and tell your partner, right? "Hey honey, I bumped into this snake and it started talking to me and it convinced me to take a bite out of the forbidden fruit, here you take a bite too."

Are you quite sure that your understanding of the Genesis account is accurate? Today, most people understand that a snake is a reptile but in the Genesis account it was understood (In oral Torah) that the serpent was a beast which was the king of all beasts who as punishment became a reptile. Am I missing something here?

originally posted by: mersaultdies
The snake was probably an early sex toy that Adam caught Eve using and got cross. He thought he was the big man.

Then they wrote a book and said, 'Only idiots will believe this junk'.

Then history happened and Adam and Eve looked down at humanity, looked across at God sheepishly and said, 'Woops'.

But God didn't chide them, because then he would prove he exists, which he would rather never do for some reason.

Very belt believable

a reply to: Seede


The snake was God (god and Lucifer are a one in the same) and y s, she did go home and tell Adam and he begged and begged her not to "bite the apple" but of course, she did anyway.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Joecroft
Yeah, but literal animal snakes produce other snakes.

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

But why make one metaphorical and the other literal…?

If the snake can literally bruise, then surely it can literally tempt Eve as well…

How are you drawing the line between making one literal, and the other metaphorical…?

I am drawing the line by looking for the interpretation that makes the most sense, and leaves the whole thing least tangled.
The basic story of the temptation is an aetiological, or "origin", story, explaining the origin of death and everything else that is wrong with the world. A metaphorical snake is introduced for the purpose. Once there's a "snake" element in the story, the writer takes the opportunity of attaching to it an observation about literal snakes in their relationship with men and including that in the explanations.

OK but a talking snake?

Have you talked with one before?

again back to the literal and metaphorical within one sentence 3:15, splitting the two within a single sentence would immediately cause the reader to "doubt the writer".

Forbidden fruit, like food for thought. Or like ATS slogan, Deny ignorance.

"In the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, Samael is said to be the one who tempted Eve, then seduced and impregnated her with Cain. Some sources identify Gadreel as the angel that seduced Eve; although, other Hebrew scholars say that it was Samael who tempted Eve as the Serpent."

simple.m.wikipedia.org...

I've also seen suggested, Lilith gave Eve greater knowledge, more food for thought, and Lilith was Samael's wife, and Samael impregnated Eve with Cain.

Talk about triangulation, eh?

Ever wonder where the name, Uncle Sam comes from?

In 1775, the name Uncle Sam was written in the original Yankee Doodle lyrics that mocked the young nation besieging the British at Boston.

Anyway...

The Eden of Genesis is literally a place on earth, ya?