1983 Washington Post Article About Planet 9(X) at 50 Billion Miles from Sun.

Well, the good news is: If there is an extra Planet, then the pictographs of our Solar System that we put on the Voyager Spacecraft(s) are completely erroneous, thus sending any potential conquering Aliens on a wild goose chase. Explains the Fermi Paradox, -and thank God for arrogant/incompetent bureaucrats.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

why are you deliberatly ignoring all the evidence of the follow up studies from other systems - that correctly identified what the 1983 " sighting " really was ?

Nowhere does any of the info posted by Phage corroborate any of those objects were the one referred in the WaPost... Only Phage wants to claim. In 1983 IRAS detected 350,000 objects. The claim made by Phage that the 1984 paper must be talking about that object is just conjecture made by Phage.

a reply to: wildespace

Well, due to the fact that the Peanut Nebula is made up of carbon stars with temperatures from 2,000-3,000 kelvin, which means they burn from 3,140.33 fahrenheit to 4,940.33 fahrenheit and due to the fact that this other object only burns at 456 degrees Fahrenheit below zero I wonder who is actually "doing a lot of hedging in this thread...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sure. He was talking about an infrared source other than the 9 in his paper. His paper which was submitted 3 months before the Washington Post article. Seems odd that he would have left that one out of his paper.

Sure. He was talking about some other infrared source located by IRAS but somehow missed by WISE.


Washington Post:

The most fascinating explanation of this mystery body, which is so cold it casts no light and has never been seen by optical telescopes on Earth or in space, is that it is a giant gaseous planet as large as Jupiter and as close to Earth as 50 trillion miles.(Correct Figure is 50 Billion miles)

WISE results:

This recent study, which involved an examination of WISE data covering the entire sky in infrared light, found no object the size of Saturn or larger exists out to a distance of 10,000 astronomical units (au), and no object larger than Jupiter exists out to 26,000 au. One astronomical unit equals 93 million miles. Earth is 1 au, and Pluto about 40 au, from the sun.

wise.ssl.berkeley.edu...

50 billion miles = 537 AU. Right? So, no. IRAS did not find a large planet 50 billion miles from Earth.

a reply to: St Udio

I never wrote that it is coming into the inner solar system. As a matter of fact, the thread I made in 2011 which is about the real evidence which points out that there is at least one, or more planets in the solar system, and the possibility of a brown dwarf i specifically stated in my opening statements.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Despite what your own thoughts are regarding this issue, there is scientific evidence which points to the possibility of a brown dwarf, and at least another planet existing in our Solar System.

This thread is not about 2012, as I have said many times I do not think Nibiru, or any planet or brown dwarf will pass by in 2012, this is about the real evidence that point to the real possibility that a brown dwarf, and at least one other planet exist in our Solar System.

Since 2004 I have been posting information on this website on the possibility of a brown dwarf and another unknown planet existing within our Solar System, probably somewhere within the Oort Cloud.
...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Phage
...
Sure. He was talking about some other unidentified object located by IRAS but somehow missed by WISE.

And sure Phage. Could you please show us which extreme infrared galaxies would have sources of luminosity at 456 degrees Fahrenheit below zero?

According to this article, "these sources must have infrared to visible luminosity greater than 50, compared with values between 0.1 and 1 for normal galaxies..."

And again with this claim of yours that WISE didn't find it... How do you know? Did you personally look through all the WISE data to make this new claim?

originally posted by: Phage
WISE results:

This recent study, which involved an examination of WISE data covering the entire sky in infrared light, found no object the size of Saturn or larger exists out to a distance of 10,000 astronomical units (au), and no object larger than Jupiter exists out to 26,000 au. One astronomical unit equals 93 million miles. Earth is 1 au, and Pluto about 40 au, from the sun.

wise.ssl.berkeley.edu...

You seem to forget that several planetary scientists are saying this huge planet is out there, and according to NASA it is inferred that planet 9 (X) has an aphelion of 1,200 AU and a perihelion of 200 AU. Planetary scientists are pretty sure it exists, but it just hasn't been physically observed.

You tell us Phage, if you are sure that all the data of WISE has been throughly examined, how is it possible at all that several groups of planetary scientists are saying that planet 9 is around 10-20 Earth masses and is inferred to have an aphelion of 1,200 AU and a perihelion of 200 AU. ?

...
"The similar spectral gradients observed for the pair 2004 VN112 - 2013 RF98 suggests a common physical origin", explains Julia de León, the first author of the paper, an astrophysicist at the IAC. "We are proposing the possibility that they were previously a binary asteroid which became unbound during an encounter with a more massive object". To validate this hypothesis, the team performed thousands of numerical simulations to see how the poles of the orbits would separate as time went on. The results of these simulations suggest that a possible Planet Nine, with a mass of between 10 and 20 Earth masses orbiting the Sun at a distance between 300 and 600 AU could have deviated the pair 2004 VN112 - 2013 RF98 around 5 and 10 million years ago. This could explain, in principle, how these two asteroids, starting as a pair orbiting one another, became gradually separated in their orbits because they made an approach to a much more massive object at a particular moment in time.
...

Read more at: phys.org...

All ETNOs have an argument of perihelion close to 0, and instead of having orbits all over the place they are showing orbits which only at least one massive planet planet could account for... But only Phage and company would still try to pull the "it doesn't exist because supposedly WISE didn't find it".

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And sure Phage. Could you please show us which extreme infrared galaxies would have sources of luminosity at 456 degrees Fahrenheit below zero?

That's pretty much absolute zero. What, if anything, was found at that temperature?

Did you personally look through all the WISE data to make this new claim?

It's not a new claim, the research was done a couple of years ago. But tell me, did you personally look through all of the IRAS data to determine which object was being discussed in the Washington Post article?

Planetary scientists are pretty sure it exists, but it just hasn't been physically observed.

Right. Because they know that neither IRAS or WISE located any such object. Because any such object would be too small to be detected by IRAS or WISE.

You seem to forget that several planetary scientists are saying this huge planet is out there,

Yes, they are saying that there probably is a planet out there. But they don't say it's huge. Certainly not a gas giant. Jupiter is huge, more than 300 times the mass of Earth. The proposed Planet 9 is large, but nowhere near that large. If it were, WISE would have detected it.


IRAS did not find Planet 9. You said it yourself

but it just hasn't been physically observed

a reply to: Phage

A planet 10-20 Earth masses would make it a gas giant. Uranus is one of 4 known gas giants in the Solar System and it has 14.5 Earth masses. Neptune is another of the known gas giants in the solar system and it has 17 Earth masses.

Even at the lower limit at 10 Earth masses planet 9 would be a gas giant.



As for what was found at that temperature, it seems you didn't even bother to read the article from the WaPost, even though i excerpted from it that same quote a couple times.

...
Whatever it is, Houck said, the mystery body is so cold its temperature is no more than 40 degrees above "absolute" zero, which is 456 degrees Fahrenheit below zero. The telescope aboard IRAS is cooled so low and is so sensitive it can "see" objects in the heavens that are only 20 degrees above absolute zero.
...

www.washingtonpost.com...

edit on 31-3-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

A planet 10-20 Earth masses would make it a gas giant.

Fair enough. But not close to Jupiter, as stated in the Washington Post article. IRAS did not find Planet 9.

Whatever it is, Houck said, the mystery body is so cold its temperature is no more than 40 degrees above "absolute" zero, which is 456 degrees Fahrenheit below zero.

As I said, -456ºF is pretty much absolute zero (but the writer got it wrong, a bit). And, if you refer to my first post, you will see that the blackbody temperatures of the 9 objects range from 26ºK to 55ºK. That's from -413Fº to -360ºF. Nothing would be found at absolute zero because; 1) absolute zero cannot be reached, 2) at absolute zero there is no radiation, 3) According to your source, IRAS's lower limit was about 20º above absolute zero.



Here's a more recent attempt at using WISE to find Planet 9.

We develop a method to search for Planet Nine far beyond the W1 single-exposure sensitivity, to distances as large as 800 AU, using inertial coadds of W1 exposures binned into ∼1 day intervals. We apply our methodology to ∼2000 square degrees of sky identified by Holman & Payne (2016) as a potentially likely Planet Nine location, based on the Fienga et al. (2016) Cassini ranging analysis. We do not detect a plausible Planet Nine candidate,

arxiv.org...

Here you can search for yourselves the information for wise is online. find the image and track it.


www.nasa.gov...

a reply to: Phage

Change your argument much?

Here is a more recent research paper that does present more evidence, alongside all other evidence, that ETNOs are being influenced by at least a massive super-Earth planet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

February 21, 2017

...
Now, a team of researchers led by the Instituto de Astrofísica de Canarias (IAC) in collaboration with the Complutense University of Madrid has taken a step towards the physical characterization of these bodies, and to confirm or refute the hypothesis of Planet Nine by studying them. The scientists have made the first spectroscopic observations of 2004 VN112 and 2013 RF98, both of them particularly interesting dynamically because their orbits are almost identical and the poles of the orbits are separated by a very small angle. This suggest a common origin, and their present-day orbits could be the result of a past interaction with the hypothetical Planet Nine. This study, recently published in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, suggests that this pair of ETNOs was a binary asteroid which separated after an encounter with a planet beyond the orbit of Pluto.

To reach these conclusions, they made the first spectroscopic observations of 2004 VN112 and 201F3 R98 in the visible range. These were performed in collaboration with the support astronomers Gianluca Lombardi and Ricardo Scarpa, using the OSIRIS spectrograph on the Gran Telescopio CANARIAS (GTC), situated in the Roque de los Muchachos Observatory (Garafía, La Plama). It was hard work to identify these asteroids because their great distance means that their apparent movement on the sky is very slow. Then, they measured their apparent magnitudes (their brightness as seen from Earth) and also recalculated the orbit of 2013 RF98, which had been poorly determined. They found this object at a distance of more than an arcminute away from the position predicted from the ephemerides. These observations have helped to improve the computed orbit, and have been published by the Minor Planet Center (MPEC 2016-U18: 2013 RF98) responsible for the identification of comets and minor planets (asteroids) as well as for measurements of their parameters and orbital positions.
...

Read more at: phys.org...

That is of course unless Phage here wants to write a research paper in which he describes how "magic" can make all ETNOs have such peculiar orbits, having an argument of perihelion close to 0, and sharing such similar directions which could only be caused by perturbations from another planetary object, at least one massive supper Earth.

BTW Phage, perhaps you forgot the fact that even though Pluto was "discovered" by Clyde Tombaugh in 1930, Pluto had already been photographed twice in March and April 1915 by the Lowell Observatory.

If it's that massive, it'll produce it's own heat from pressure.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Change your argument much?

No. My argument has not changed. IRAS did not find Planet 9. IRAS did not find a Jupiter sized planet 50 billion miles from Earth.

Here is a more recent research paper that does present more evidence, alongside all other evidence, that ETNOs are being influenced by at least a massive super-Earth planet.

Yes. There could well be a large planet out there (way, way out there), or not. In any case IRAS did not find it 1983. Nor has WISE done so, as yet. So far, no one has done so. As yet. But you can join the hunt. You can even look for that infrared cirrus.

www.zooniverse.org...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Phage

Change your argument much?

Here is a more recent research paper that does present more evidence, alongside all other evidence, that ETNOs are being influenced by at least a massive super-Earth planet.

[snip]

That is of course unless Phage here wants to write a research paper in which he describes how "magic" can make all ETNOs have such peculiar orbits, having an argument of perihelion close to 0, and sharing such similar directions which could only be caused by perturbations from another planetary object, at least one massive supper Earth.

I don't want to speak for Phage here, but just because someone argues that the object discussed in the 1983 WP article does NOT seem to be a planet (based on additional research done on the particular object they thought was a planet since that time) that person could still believe in the possibility of the existence another unknown planet out there.

I know that's where I fall on the subject -- i.e. I think its is very possible that another planet could in fact be affecting the orbits of extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs), but that does not mean it is the same object mentioned in the 1983 WP article, especially considering that the objects found by Houck and Neugebauer that were the subject of that article were later identified as something other than planets.


As Phage pointed out in a post on the first page, all nine of the objects that Houck and Neugebauer flagged as "interesting" were later found by subsequent research to be galaxies, not a planet.

originally posted by: Phage
We don't know which one was the focus of the Washington Post article but it doesn't matter because all nine objects were later identified.

Aaronson and Olszewski identifed 0422+009 as a galaxy (1984).
adsabs.harvard.edu...

Low et al. identified 0412+085 as infrared cirrus (1984).
articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...

In 1985 Houck et al. published Unidentified IRAS Sources: Ultrahigh-Luminosity Galaxies. After the original IRAS survey, six of the unknown objects were subjected to further study with the Hale telescope at Palomar. Hale identified optical sources at the location of six of the infrared sources seen by IRAS and identified them:

0358+223: a galaxy with a jetlike structure

0404+101: an "almost spiral-like" galaxy

0413+122: a group of three galaxies, one of which shows an obvious redshift

1703+049: a galaxy

1712+100: a galaxy

1732+239: a galaxy
articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...


That leaves one unidentified infrared source; 0425-012. In 1985 Antonucci and Olszewski identified it as...a galaxy.
articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...

So does a Planet 9/Planet X exist out there and is causing the oddities in the orbits of some ETNOs? Maybe...and astronomers seem to be leaning towards "probably". But did Houck, Neugebauer, et al. find it in 1983? The evidence seems to indicate they did not.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Phage doesn't know that, he just making claims without any evidence. Nowhere in the articles does it say those 9 objects talked about were the ones they referred to in the WaPost. But Phage wants to believe it is. There were 350,000 objects detected by IRAS, and nowhere did the two planetary scientists say "this is the object we thought could have been a planet". It's just Phage making that claim.

Just like he/she wants to believe that "WISE" didn't find it so it doesn't exist. But here is the thing. Even NASA asked people to look through the WISE data because human eyes are better at detecting these objects.

NASA Wants the Public to Log In to Help Find Planet 9

Yet Phage wants to claim "WISE didn't detect it so it's not there".

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But here is the thing. Even NASA asked people to look through the WISE data because human eyes are better at detecting these objects.

Yes. I posted a link to that website.

Yet Phage wants to claim "WISE didn't detect it so it's not there".

Please provide a link to the post where I said that.


From you OP:

Why have been there so many denials about the existence of this planetary, or stellar object existing in our Solar System when it was found at least back in 1983?

There is no evidence to support your claim that Planet 9 was found in 1983. There is only your weak attempt to resort to the silly notion that Houck was not talking about one of the 9 objects he wrote his paper about. That he was talking about some other infrared source. Except that, in the paper there is this:

There is no reason to assume that these sources are extragalactic or even extra-solar system. Insight into the nature of these objects could be gained if an estimate of the distance were available.

So, yes, he was talking about one of those nine objects. All of which were later identified.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yet Phage wants to claim "WISE didn't detect it so it's not there".

Please provide a link to the post where I said that.

originally posted by: Phage

WISE results:

This recent study, which involved an examination of WISE data covering the entire sky in infrared light, found no object the size of Saturn or larger exists out to a distance of 10,000 astronomical units (au), and no object larger than Jupiter exists out to 26,000 au. One astronomical unit equals 93 million miles. Earth is 1 au, and Pluto about 40 au, from the sun.

wise.ssl.berkeley.edu...

originally posted by: Phage
...
If any of the infrared sources detected by IRAS were planetary and part of the Solar System, do you have a theory for why they were not detected as such by WISE? It seems that WISE was a more sensitive instrument than IRAS.
phys.org...

Except that those results were reached by the automated searches, and NASA realized the computer program was bad at doing this and the human eye is better at distinguishing moving objects which is why NASA has asked people for help looking at the WISE flipbooks of images.

We don't know yet whether or not WISE did capture planet 9.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So, I didn't say:

"WISE didn't detect it so it's not there".

You made that up.

We don't know yet whether or not WISE did capture planet 9.

Yes. I know. I said that here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So I am confused, first they say they have "no idea what it is" then say it's a gas giant like Jupiter?

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So I am confused, first they say they have "no idea what it is" then say it's a gas giant like Jupiter?

They said that it being a planet in our solar system was only one possible explanation, but they had no reason to necessarily think it was the best explanation, mainly because they had no idea about the distances of the objects they were investigating.