Zazz's Free-for-All UFO symposium.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

The Belgian UFO wave began in November 1989. The events of 29 November would be documented by thirty different groups of witnesses, and three separate groups of police officers. All the reports related a large object flying at low altitude. The craft was of a flat, triangular shape, with lights underneath. This giant craft did not make a sound as it slowly moved across the landscape of Belgium. There was free sharing of information as the Belgian populace tracked this craft as it moved from the town of Liege to the border of the Netherlands and Germany.

Wikipedia: Belgian UFO Wave.

The sighting wave started November, 1989 and continued to April, 1990. They have radar tracking, scrambled jets, multiple sightings across the country, even the classic grainy, fuzzy, picture of the black triangle UFO. There were multiple big black triangles (BBT, sometimes just BT) spotted. The government released all their reports and were completely open about it.

The thought is, the wave was secret military craft being tested and operated by humans.

Skeptics debunked (or tied to) the "Belgian Wave" but I would believe the eye witnesses before a debunker. You can't unsee a BBT.

this thread is gold im going to quote your post everytime someone comes asking on ats whats is new?

a reply to: humanoidlord

Zazz always has high quality threads. Its why shes so respected here at ats

originally posted by: Ridhya

a reply to: zazzafrazz

It's quite simply because, no matter what is the cause of the phenomenon, it is effective. In truth it doesn't even matter whether the cause is aliens, government experiment, psychological warfare, psychological projection, reality-psyche symbiosis, natural phenomena, plasma creatures, demons, time travelers, whatever... all that matters is that it has a profound effect on human society and is being manipulated to that end.

That was the whole point of Messengers of Deception, and it's lost on many people.

Whether you are a believer or a skeptic you're being manipulated by UFOs and the primary manipulation seems to be to make people believe in aliens at any cost, as they are next in line for the Religious Reformation. If you study history you see that it goes in cycles, and people believe in one thing (sun worship), then move on to personified elements, then move on to classic pagan pantheons, then move on to monotheism, and now we're onto the next step, the "space brothers". Psychologically speaking it makes sense, as we desire a more concrete form of belief (physical aliens) while still requiring the phony spiritual woo woo bullsh# that makes us feel all gooey inside.

So now we have the New Age movement taking over the mainstream, filling in the power vacuum left by the growing disillusionment with abrahamic religions combined with the growing anti-science movement. Look at how many people prefer emotional posts over logical/scientific reasoning.

The fact is when both science and religion fail to address the problems and questions of society, the next cult will move in to take its place, to make humanity comfortable - because we will take a comforting lie over an unpleasant truth any day.


Notice how Kenneth Arnold's "flying saucer" described the motion rather than the shape, and his drawing depicted a clear Horten 229 bomber. But at that time it was classified. Revealing it would have revealed to the public that not only were the Nazis more advanced than America, but that they hired them after the war. That was actually a secret until Christopher Simpson first fully revealed it in 1988, and some documents are STILL classified. And it is no coincidence that the New Age movement contains so many Nazi principles (like Superior Blonde Alien DNA, or totalitarian government) and is run by the CIA.

The Foo Fighters were only seen around a certain equipped aircraft and so I believe that holds the answer. Radar.

In my opinion reality - or the earth itself - has some sort of symbiotic relationship with the human psyche, and it is in our fragile minds' best interest that reality remains largely "stable"... despite the multitude of breaches.

How's that for classic ATS?

I was trying to find a paragraph to discuss, but I want to discuss it all, so I just took out the Narmer Palette and quote most of it for other people to read.
A really good post and I agree with your points.
When you say "they" are manipulating society. who are "they" in your opinion.

In your last paragraph you say reality or the earth has a symbiotic relationship with the human psyche, can you clarify that?
How is "reality" a conscious thing, or how is the "earth" the planet a conscious thing?

a reply to: mirageman

I adore you MM. I made this thread because of the Norway Spiral! I saw it on TV, and I thought, boy how things have changed.... had that been in the past, would we have ever heard of it? If we did hear of it we would never had the tools to make it anything of it other than a myth, like Roswell, like Kenth Arnold and so on.

I feel like there has been no great adventure since Chicago, and even that was was disappointing in the end for me personally.

Your comments regarding science I think is the crux of why there *Maybe* a type of editorialized disclosure. People will have information given to us via scientific research. Science is on the cusp of finding 'life' out there.
The advances in Particle and Quantum physics is motivation enough to those that have hidden information to come out and try control the narrative before control of the narrative escapes them and they are left behind trying to catch up with the leaps and bounds made by civilian research.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Hey zazz great thread.

I have found that the folks with hidden information do try to control the narrative from civilians. But, not to hide aliens but to protect military advantages we have through undisclosed scientific breakthroughs. They are still nearly insurmountably ahead in these sciences and therefore will continue to control the narrative for at least another decade or so. And thats being generous.

Civilians are getting close to making some of the same breakthroughs though that the DoD did decades ago. But from there they will still be experimenting with devices exploiting new technology breakthroughs that are half a century behind the militarys discovery and implementation of. Theyll be where the military was in the 60s with the technology. So the military will keep a nearly insurmountable lead. But control of the narrative is indeed eroding away from the military.

However i feel a new wave is right around the corner for ufo enthusiasts. Theres a place in southern california ive hinted about where you can see them almost brazenly train with this sort of technology. ...often. You just gotta know where to look.

You seem interested in the science side of things relating to ufos. If you want to better understand the technology i recommrnd researching developments in the following fields. Non linear optics. Control systems. Metric engineering. Phase conjugation. Superconductors. Gauge physics especially in relation to EM. QED/CQED and QCD. Resonant Induction Circuits. SU(2) Symmetry. EM Refractive Index Changes. Framedragging. Quantum Optical Squeezing. Yes you have to study all of them to understand how they interrelate and work with each other in concert. Sorry theres no shortcuts in understanding the science behind it if you want to understand "ufos". And thats one of the biggest problems i see with researchers often. They dont do their homework in the right sciences. Or at all. Its too much work to understand quantum electro dynamics or to study the math behind gauge physics. They dont want to invest the months or years needed to get a grasp of the above stuff. So they dismiss it and get into some serious woo. Its lazy and a cop out and leads to piss poor research and researchers who after a half lifetime still have amounted to squat. Its the main reason the ufo field is garbage these days. People want to believe but they dont want to learn. I like you cause you DO want to learn.

As for why we dont see as many saucers these days and more triangles. A superconductor thats rotating (for reasons) will cause precession of the vehicle due to counter rotation. This makes them unstable and hard to control cause the saucer will want to spin on its axis. Three superconductors arranged in a triangle lock their counter rotation and dont precess and are much more stable.

Foo Fighters. Research what happens when you triangulate some IR lasers in the sky. (Or Masers too) Pulse them at femto or pico seconds. Youll get a plasma bloom. Plasma blooms are non linear optical mediums. You can then do a myriad of neato things with plasmas functioning as non linear EM mediums especially if you introduce a third phase conjugate beam to it. such as convert one type of EM signal into another EM signal such as radio, microwave or even optical....and much more. Very useful for many things from giving anomalous radar signals. To acting as transponders. To EMP pulses to sound generation. To area denial of other peoples EM signals to wreck the enemies comand control and communications architecture. Pretty useful for defense offense and your own C3. Probably something the military would be interested in....for many generations now. The tech is scaleable and portable and can create from grapefruit sized orbs to aircraft sized ones. Go one step farther and see whats possible if said phase conjugate beam was a soliton. Youll be able to create a EM resonant cavity. In which yoy can do all sorts of further things like refractive index changes. Or resonate EM in specific frequencies for your jollies.

Speaking of orbs. Folks will be seeing them in a lot more instances in the next few years. Cause its that old of a technology.

While were on the subject of plasmas. They are very useful..... Very useful. Think about that as you consider controlling the narrative. Wouldnt it be great to get people to look at plasmas not as a non linear optical medium but to get them to believe, almost in a cult like manner, in something rediculous about them...i mean if you were trying to obsfucate the truth or control the narrative.

Superconductors....Maybe they can couple to the vacuum. Heck maybe its possible to superconduct the vacuum its self, at least in a anisotropic manner along magnetic field lines granted the fields are strong enough or maybe resonances can assist and lessen the field strength needed. But for that youd need an EM resonant cavity or maybe a resonant induction circuit. Maybe even couple it to a superconductor. Get those mesons to behave. Who knows!!! Well the DOD does.

Just for the record, I have personally witnessed a triangular UFO; thus, I am sure they exist though cannot confirm where the craft originated from, of course. And, my partner has also seen a UFO, which oddly matches the characteristics of a craft reported for an abduction incident around the same time and place. That particular craft exhibited characteristics quite unlike any known technology. And I have a number of friends who have seen UFOs, most of them the classic saucer, some passing just overhead. It's kind of hard to be confused on what you are looking at under those circumstances. Are aliens here? Damn right they are. They have been here for a long time. I believed it years ago, and have kept abreast of much of the talk since. Nothing has changed my mind although there is a lot of noise. No doubt much of that is deliberate disinformation. But that doesn't make the truth any less real, does it?

It's right where it always was imo. There are a particular # of solid sightings.. a low #.. each year. And.. that's it. No matter what we spin around ufology on this planet, or how many new videos of dots in the sky we throw up on youtube because everything is now equipped with a camera.. visitors if they are there, are not changing their habits because of it.

We can whip ourselves into a frenzy here on Earth.. but it won't change reality. I still believe in visitation, but I don't think the number of actual realistic sightings has changed much.. all the ridiculous claims made by ufo "researchers" selling books and dvds doesn't change the reality of it at all. It's sad though, because those sightings that are legitimate usually get the least amount of attention.. they are summarily researched and put to pasture. While the ridiculous theories flourish.

I guess people are bored. They want there to be more.. so they invent more.. but it's not there.

Here are 2 sightings that the hubby and i both witnessed together,with the first one our little son was also present to see it.I was in my yard towards early evening but still light outside.I saw this big orange light in the sky,and as i watched it,more became suddenly visible.IIRC there were 7 in the sky at all times while this happening.

The lights were moving in a dead straight line,the distances between them seeming mathematically precisely spaced.The front one would vanish when it got to a certain point in the sky and Immediately another would appear at the back of the queue.And so forth.I cannot tell you how long precisely this went on,i was so transfixed by this strange spectacle.It was propably no longer than a minute or two.

Weird thing is,although i didn't think to call my hubby,him and our son came outside just then,just as it started.I asked him afterwards how he knew to come outside just then and he said he suddenly got the feeling he should go outside immediately.He is clairvoyant so idk if that had anything to do with it.

Anyway all the lights just suddenly vanished and we were standing there wondering wth that was all about.I wrote about this in another thread some time ago and a member said it gave him the feeling of a military parade.With the precision in movement and spacing it actually did seem like it in a way.

The 2nd spectacular sighting we had,occurred around dusk,the hubby and i were both out in the yard.It was not full dark yet.Then we saw this bright and superfast light traversing the sky coming in,going SW to East in the sky.My hubby said that is not any conventional or known aircraft,look at the speed.

It was moving at incredible speed covering a vast swathe of sky in seconds.I was looking at it,facing East when my hubby shouted "Look behind you!" Another big bright light was coming in from the SW,even faster than the first one.

Here's where it gets really weird-as the 2nd light/craft reached the East sector,the first light hauled ass into the NE.The 2nd craft then did what seemed to me,to be "drawing a line in the sand" but in the sky.It stopped in the East and from that altitude came straight down in a straight line,and as it got low,it swooped backwards,again like a backwards arc into the backfield of the sky and disappeared.

The first craft's light was dimmer now and it stayed toodling around in the NE and N sectors of the sky.We watched it for a few minutes,then i had to go in to make dinner.

That was incredibly intruiging,it seemed like the 2nd craft was chasing off the first one-and drawing a line in the sky that the first one did not come near to again.Well thats how it looked to us.

Probabley the most credible and indisputable sighting in modern times, maybe of all time, is "The Phoenix Lights"
- Indisputable sightings by many people, backed up by decent film footage - And of course the gov said it was
'military flares'! - Now prove them wrong - well you can 'almost' do that as time intervals of the sightings don't quite '
correlate.

But until the day a real live, or mechanical, being steps out of a UFO craft - Absolute proof of an alien presence on this planet does not exist.

Some of us like o believe in the presence of aliens and use as evidence all the UFOs apparently intelligently guided as proof
- But that is not proof - Until proven otherwise, it is possible we are witnessing, as the gov often clained in the past, just
some strange lighting effects - Refractive lighting anomalies and not intelligent beings from other planets or dimensions.

But since these 'anomalies' seem to move in 'iintelligent patterns'' - One could 'assume' some type of intelligence is involved
- But then again isn't all the motion of the stars and its patterns of design intelligent - In the sense that we can discern intelligent and calculable motion

reply to: mirageman
We're positive the Spiral was a Russian missile test. Not only did we dig up footage from a Chinese missile test that caused the same colour and effect, but we heard reports of a Russian ship too. And then people went, "but the Russians denied it!" and yet they also denied having little green men in Ukraine.

I think that we covered it up too because we were embarassed that we didnt detect/intercept it, and if people thought that we were incompetent it would cause panic. So both Norway and Russia had something to gain from denial.

In which case the phenomenon is all the other stuff - military craft, black ops programs, demons, or natural phenomenon. Much of which bores me to tears.

Demons and black ops bore you? Man I need a glimpse into your exciting life




a reply to: BASSPLYR
That's what I was getting at with the Foo Fighters (though less eloquently). When I looked into the "accounts" I found most seemed fabricated (no record of the names/events anywhere) and the ones that were real all involved B-17 bombers with AN/APS-20 radar. Interesting coincidence.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
When you say "they" are manipulating society. who are "they" in your opinion.

If we knew we wouldn't have to say "they", would we? There's no singular answer here. It's clear that the US Navy and Air Force have studied the psychological effects of strange visions, and you can see that going back to psychological warfare against Cuba and even potentially back to the trenches of WWI. I am also strongly of the opinion that the Battle of LA was a holographic projection, hence why everyone saw something clearly there, yet couldnt shoot it.
Considering that they were on edge from Pearl Harbour, they would shoot anything they didnt expect, and if it was a projected image, it would explain why none of the munitions could hit or damage it, and why some went through and allegedly killed soldiers on the opposite side. Some people have said that the lights are simply illuminating clouds, well you need a surface to project on to, hence clouds! I suspect it was a test to see how realistic the enemy would perceive it.

The Phoenix Lights seemed to be a similar test, albeit with an advanced aerial projector. People witnessed a warped effect between the objects in formation, possibly a holographic effect. Interesting to note as it progressed it began to appear as a single object.
[there used to be an amazing article at www.examiner.com... but its gone! F#k!]
Then you remember how in the local news, not mainstream, the mayor who HIMSELF witnessed the event, came out in a ridiculous alien costume and acted like it was a joke. It's reverse psychology! Rather than ease everyone's mind and say "we did an air force test", they simply said "you didnt see anything!"?! Thats absurd! EVERYONE knew SOMETHING was there. Because its the same thing that happened with Roswell. They made a statement that nothing happened, deliberately contradicting their previous statement, which PROVES that they lied. So everyone is hung up on the lie, which is what they want. They made people believe harder, not less.

The second "they" and possibly interchangeable with the US government would be a so called "breakaway civilisation", an illuminati of sorts, a collection of the world's power elite controlling technology release to maintain domination of the world's economy and power structure. These would be the globalists pushing for the One World Government (consolidated power) utilising a global religion as the means to accomplish this. You will note that it was none other than Laurance and Nelson Rockefeller who pressured scientists to believe that UFOs were extraterrestrial in nature. Forget science and evidence! Just believe! It also just so happened that John Rockefeller supported Eugenics research via the Kaiser-Wilhelm Institute in Germany. The same family promoting the One World Religion.
You will always find that all roads lead to Germany, Eugenics, New Age movement, globalists. The standard conspiracy fodder, except with actual ties. Did you ever wonder why the New Age cults promote belief in Blonde Aryan Aliens coming to save humanity from itself?

In your last paragraph you say reality or the earth has a symbiotic relationship with the human psyche, can you clarify that?

Reality by nature is subjective.
Five people are out camping and all witness the same light in the sky. The first sees an alien craft. The second sees an experimental military craft. The third sees an angel. The fourth sees a plasma creature. The fifth sees a psychological hallucination. It acts as a living Rorschach test due to the person's certainty. In each of these minds their interpretation is REALITY, and becomes reality. Because reality cannot exist without the hardware to perceive it; sort of like digital data on a usb drive without a monitor to display it, or a tree falling with no one around to hear it... it is dependent on the interpreter.

It's pretty obvious through study of hypnotism that you can artificially induce reality in people. You can make them believe they are an animal or are being attacked by phantom demons. Schizophrenics likewise can delve into a delusional world where in their reality, they are flying. Even though no one else actively perceives these things as real, to the experiencer it is indistinguishable. So there is a serious connection between reality and the psyche. It is even possibly that what we know as reality itself is a construct of the psyche, a la The Matrix. If you've ever had experiences of "high strangeness" you will agree that reality is not as fixed as we assume. It seems to be that "coincidence" is the method by which psyches manipulate reality; it acts as a regulator, to prevent overload. Let's say that my theory is correct - wouldn't people be going power crazy manipulating reality to their ends? Well, trauma studies show that the psyche's primary job is to protect the conscious mind. Is it possible that limiting our influence on reality is a protection of sanity? Sort of like how cars are capable of going extremely fast but both the governor and personal risk assessment prevent us from it out of potential danger.

How is "reality" a conscious thing, or how is the "earth" the planet a conscious thing?

As above it seems that psyches and reality interact with each other in a strange way, and various phenomena cause awe and such that cause a change in society. It is possible that the earth itself somehow gained consciousness and uses phenomena to manipulate us parasites living on it.
Now I dont mean its alive, like if we dig deep enough we find earth bones and it starts bleeding oil, haha. I mean... more like how the human body works. When part of your body is in danger you get signals of pain and it causes you to react. Maybe UFOs and phenomena are the Earth's way of signalling us that something is wrong.
How would the earth become "conscious" in the first place? It's strange to think that the human body is comprised of tons of little organisms called cells yet we think and act as one giant unit. Is it possible that when enough multicellular creatures gather together it creates a similar effect? After all, we know that Mob Mentality is a real psychological effect. Maybe becoming a Hive Mind is the natural way of things.

I'm just thinkin out loud.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Sorry to hear that UFO's couldn't stay in model T form... perhaps those were just the first sort becoming aware of our presence here.

Teasing of course; in regards to the giant UFO battle of Nuremburg in 1561... seeing how there were several types; perhaps the winners to decide humanities future; were the one's left to hover around in the model-T(pie tin) and Cigar sort.

Being there are s many forms now? Perhaps there will be another such battle if all of those involved can't reach some sort of consensus; seeing how we as a human civilzation are at sort of a hurdle, in moving forward or falling flat on our faces.

I do not think this the first time we have approached the hurdle; I think we have fallen flat on our faces at least once already... caused a prehistoric nuclear winter and slowly dug out from under the rubble, leaving much of the mystery of the past just that. Catching back up sort of to that point again? The hurdle yet once again presents itself.

I seriously doubt anyone wants to fall flat on our faces again. However; the greed stirring the pot of ignorance leading to hate to cause stagnation and power grabs? Certainly isn't helping set up for the jump... but then again it is. IMHO it would be much better if all could jump together this time round... likely not going to happen; but eh those trying can't say they didn't extend the hand or at least point in trying to help... but at some point there is just nothing anyone can do or be done about it.

Building walls and those wanting too? Making those such hurdles certainly won't make any difference to them hoping to avoid the consequences of the larger one. As it doesn't cause the delay thought; only becomes cause to expedite the larger.



p.s. There is an certain aesthetic place in my heart for the ol pie tin sort... Even though I am way more familiar with the ball type; that enjoy wistfully dancing around each other and playing hide and seek in the clouds.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: onehuman

I don't know enough about Belgian, though Nefermore my former crew mate on ATS live radio once talked me through how he thought it was one of ours...Can't remember the details, so anyone who can give me a summary link would be great.

Phoenix Lights, we interviewed a well known anti scientology reporter Tony Ortega who told us he did some research on Pheonix and wrote an interesting article debunking it. www.skeptic.com...

Rendelsham forrest, I think we have the BEST thread anywhere on the internet on it. Miragemans thread . Again we interview Nick Pope (former British MOD) who is fairly pro-Rendelsham, but the thread here on ATS which I have followed for years has made me question it's validity.

The Belgian UFOs that were tracked on radar were eventually determined to be flying underground, all but one, and of course this isn't possible because as soon as a flying object hits the ground we call it a crash, and even if it could fly underground the radar couldn't track it so anomalous propagation would seem to be the only possible explanation for those radar tracks, and there may have also been some misperceptions of some visual objects though the famous photo was hoaxed so nobody ever got a real photo of any object that I know of.

Phoenix lights, both cases are well explained, even better on Bonez ATS thread than in your link though both are good. That and Rendlesham forest are more cases in the study of human (mis)perception and psychology than in the study of UFOs in my opinion, probably true for the Belgium case also so while they are interesting psychology cases, not so interesting as UFOs.

I don't hide the fact I'm now more skeptical after previously believing UFO promoters' accounts of events before digging into more facts for myself, though I do try to keep an open mind and I was very impressed with the interview with Edwin Fuhr posted in an ATS thread not too long ago, have you heard it? I can't even speculate on what these UFOs were but I believe the story the man tells it is essentially correct as he perceived it, and there was apparently a lot of interest by TPTB afterwards (such as the US air force) which if they knew what it was doesn't make a lot of sense, so I don't think they knew what they were either. I just have no idea what these UFOs were, it's one of my new favorite mysteries, and it seems to me like more of a genuine UFO case than Belgium, Phoenix and Rendlesham put together:

Interview With Edwin Fuhr 37 Years Later - The Lagenburg UFO Case.

Another apparently genuine UFO case is the 2000 UFO over Illinois witnessed by multiple policemen.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have no idea what either one of those was but the one in Illinois could be a rigid hull airship, though if it was one of ours I have to agree with those who say it doesn't make much sense to fly a secret aircraft over such a populated area, though it was sighted when most people were sleeping. What Edwin Fuhr saw though I have no clue. It's a big mystery to me, and I like mysteries, who doesn't?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

It is possible to invert a signal trying to bounce one as a return... it is just a wave form afterall, doing the bouncing.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness
The evidence doesn't suggest that however. The intermittent nature of the radar locks, the fact that the pilots never got visual confirmation, is more indicitive of radar anomalies than tracking real objects:

Belgian UFO wave

In "The Belgian UFO Wave" Skeptoid podcast episode, Brian Dunning discussed the F-16 chase and reported that

"The pilots also got intermittent contact with objects, but they appeared and disappeared and moved up and down too fast, including going underground. The pilots never saw anything at all."...

"It was simply a psycho-social phenomenon, which is why there is no evidence and only the one questionable photograph. If 13,500 people did all actually see something that they took for a UFO at the time, I guarantee you that more than just a single photograph would have resulted."...

And that one photograph?

"In 2011, a guy named Patrick Maréchal invited Belgian reporters to his home to show them what he and some buddies had done at work one day when the media hype had been at its peak. They took a sheet of styrofoam, cut it into a triangle, painted it black, embedded a flashlight in each corner, then hung it from a string.Maréchal still had tons of photos that they'd taken trying to get that one that was just right, and that fooled the world"

a reply to: Arbitrageur

lol our seeing inverts the external as soon as it becomes internal as the act of seeing... meaning all we ever see is upside down. if a signal is inverted then that also means the pilots were not flying towards anything but away also from the signal being reflected like a mirror... just like the words on a shirt going backwards when inverted or flipped backwards.

It's a pretty good stop following me but think you are defence measure wouldn't you say? I seriously doubt we harness such technology ourselves; since stealth to be invisible to such bouncing is considered state of the art... but if visually spotted, good luck evading without tech to invert if not fast enough to avoid pursuit. Inversion of signals hover in one spot and stop on a dime and then acceleration to maximum speed in an instant and right angle turns however?

Yeah, no something we can match... even being 50 years ahead of the public eye tech wise.

Zazz, I love this thread.

And I just want to reinforce some recurring themes going on that I tend to lean towards myself. And that is, psychology. Mind control. Hypnotism.

Think Dark City.

I have had suspicions that there is a "they" that operates just outside of the realm of possibility to us, thus they become invisible. Except we can't ignore it if we are having direct contact- in which case it leads to denial, dissociation, and hallucinations that are possibly just hypnotic suggestions in order to disguise their true identities. Think Men in Black, the flashy pen thing.

People often underestimate their own ability to deny/block out uncomfortable realities to the point where they can lie to themselves so successfully that they don't even know that they are lying to themselves and will deny it at all costs.

I also feel like we are all inside of something like a machine, but the machine is alive. It's animated, and there is a relationship between machine and the human mind...

Also there's one last point I like to make when talking about this stuff, and it's that... if David Copperfield an make the Statue of Liberty disappear for hundreds of witnesses- then a UFO sighting can be orchestrated for hundreds to thousands, and etc. With the advancement of technology and science and knowledge of how the human mind works, they are only getting better at orchestrating these events.

a reply to: geezlouise
They already have:

Notice how they all describe it in different colours? It is a Rorschach test, as I mentioned above. They impose their psyches onto their artificial reality. You can make people see or do literally anything.