23 year old kills three teens.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

Just as a soldier in combat would. Yes. training trumps fear, but memories of traumatic experiences tend to stick around for a while.

a reply to: yuppa

If your gun isn't loaded and ready to rock you are doing home defense wrong.

An AR 15 for home defense inside the house isn't the best choice, imo. You gotta be an idiot to think it won't over penetrate walls, including the neighbors.

An idiot, or a sadist. He could of put one round into the floor and watched them scatter, too.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

Just as a soldier in combat would. Yes. training trumps fear, but memories of traumatic experiences tend to stick around for a while.

Was he a vet?

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

Just as a soldier in combat would. Yes. training trumps fear, but memories of traumatic experiences tend to stick around for a while.

Was he a vet?

I don't know. But he was able to load and shoot an AR15 in a crisis situation effectively. So regardless, he had training.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

Just as a soldier in combat would. Yes. training trumps fear, but memories of traumatic experiences tend to stick around for a while.

Was he a vet?

I don't know. But he was able to load and shoot an AR15 in a crisis situation effectively. So regardless, he had training.

Should have known better, therefore.

Quick pole, how many would choose the .223 (5.56 NATO) for home defense in the house against multiple targets?

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

Just as a soldier in combat would. Yes. training trumps fear, but memories of traumatic experiences tend to stick around for a while.

Was he a vet?

I don't know. But he was able to load and shoot an AR15 in a crisis situation effectively. So regardless, he had training.

Should have known better, therefore.

Quick pole, how many would choose the .223 (5.56 NATO) for home defense in the house against multiple targets?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: intrptr


www.youtube.com...


These guy's tested the AR inside a house. They never exited the house, but only interior walls. The AR fires a .22 caliber bullet super fast but light so it tends to fragment and lose all it's energy when hitting walls, etc.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: network dude

he was in shock.

But kept shooting...

In that circumstance you tend to go into automatic mode, you are not thinking you are acting to protect your home, your own life and so you do not think, not like when you come back to yourself.
Rationality does not come into it, emotion, fear and response.


Now imagine if those kid's had gotten the gun before him?.

He is alive, none of us were there so we can not know what really happened except that these kid's came armed, in case anyone was in the house, maybe they have harmed others before but this time they met there match and got sent to there maker.

It is a terrible tragedy, five tragedy's, five people's lives destroyed, the young man whom had to protect himself, each of the three kid's whom died there and the kid driving the car but you know he probably took the live's of people whom would have gone on to do so to other's and maybe already have.

A won't call it a service to any society however, any society that let's any of it's kid's get into that state need's to stop, look at itself and ask what it is doing wrong, money should never come before life but this young man did on paper at least the correct thing and I don't believe anyone can fault him for that.

a reply to: network dude

How do you break into a house in OK and not expect to meet an AR?


Don't want to die to billits?

Don't be a POS who thinks they are going to do home invasions.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: network dude

How do you break into a house in OK and not expect to meet an AR?


Don't want to die to billits?

Don't be a POS who thinks they are going to do home invasions.

What ever happened to the days when one patiently watched a house for 2-4 weeks to get everyone's routine down, almost ensuring nobody will be home.. I guess criminals getting dumber is a good thing though.

a reply to: network dude

The whole situation is tragic all around and for all involved. I can't fathom what he will go through emotionally, psychologically or all of it from this point forward.

It has been reported (can't recall where I read it) that there may have been some connection between the woman and either one of the victims. An acquaintance of some sort perhaps. If they did know one another (the group) then that would make his emotional suffering even worse, I imagine.

I also hope he has access to some sort of therapy as well as the families of the teenagers, the guilt and all a parent would feel having a child turn out to the criminal element.

I would think any rifle as home defense would be bulky and not as convenient as a pistol.

Oklahoma has a really bad meth lab problem, I have relatives and friends there, plus I live about 15 minutes from the border so the overflow is here too. The meth-heads here in my town is bad enough, but from what I know about Oklahoma's problem it was enough so that when I was moving last year i did not want to move there. Now that said that doesn't mean that ALL of Oklahoma is that way, but I know that in the Southeast portions it is.

So when stated that an AR-15 is in people's houses that is correct, I see them for sale every day on Facebook in the For Sale Groups they have there. Guns are a BIG thing in Texas anyway, that goes for Oklahoma too, but when you have people that steal things so much that is makes you want to buy a gun to protect you. I live in a pretty nice and quiet neighborhood, but theft around here is really common, of course they are going to go where people have nicer stuff.

Lots of good ol' boys here too, so why anyone would think that they can break into a house armed with only a knife and brass knuckles is beyond stupid. I know they were young, I made a lot of stupid decisions when I was their ages, but not life changing ones like they did, I still had a respect for others and that means I didn't steal or rob people in their homes. I had 'friends' that were stupid like them though, some are still around, others are not. Stupid is still stupid, you really can't cure that, around where I live and in SE Oklahoma stupid is something I see all of the time. (That doesn't mean that anyone reading this that lives in Oklahoma is stupid, but your neighbor might be...)

a reply to: TNMockingbird

I would think any rifle as home defense would be bulky and not as convenient as a pistol.

A pistol is much more convenient size wise, but also a lot harder to shoot accurately and master compared to a rifle or shotgun. Modern carbine length Ar-15's though are much more handy then the original full size Ar. Plus there is always the chance that the badguy has an AR/AK also, so I wouldn't want a handgun against that.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with using a handgun at all, but just know it's potential limitations.


There is a saying in the gun world, "My handgun is only used to fight my way to my rifle"

a reply to: intrptr

As much as I agree with defense of one's home, I also agree that he may have said that stuff to cover up excessive force. Melee weapons vs AR-15. Hmmm. I really don't know at this point.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

The AR fires a .22 caliber bullet super fast but light so it tends to fragment and lose all it's energy when hitting walls, etc.

"...walls, etc..."

Big depends on the load a) and b), whether the walls are wood frame construction, any bullet will easily pass thru double dry wall and remain lethal, as opposed to say #8 bird shot from a gauge. Regardless, remembering of course your family may be in the house on the other side of those "walls, etc".

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

There is a saying in the gun world, "My handgun is only used to fight my way to my rifle"

Or shotgun...

a reply to: LABTECH767

He is alive, none of us were there so we can not know what really happened except that these kid's came armed, in case anyone was in the house, maybe they have harmed others before but this time they met there match and got sent to there maker.

Maybe, maybe, they weren't 'armed'. Knife and brass knocks aren't 'arms'. in the proper sense of the term.

However, to let one know you are armed the best sound I can think of is the rack of a twelve gauge slide, Tchk-Tchk!

And, "I'm armed, the police are coming!"

I guarantee you those kids would have fallen over themselves trying get out of there.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

The AR fires a .22 caliber bullet super fast but light so it tends to fragment and lose all it's energy when hitting walls, etc.

"...walls, etc..."

Big depends on the load a) and b), whether the walls are wood frame construction, any bullet will easily pass thru double dry wall and remain lethal, as opposed to say #8 bird shot from a gauge. Regardless, remembering of course your family may be in the house on the other side of those "walls, etc".

Yea in the video they tested up to a 75grain bullet. As far as internal walls, even the .22lr is going to pass through those. It does all depend, but the bullet isn't going to go through 5 houses regardless unless your using a .50bmg. They also tested a 120gr AK round and it didn't make it through the house either.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

There is a saying in the gun world, "My handgun is only used to fight my way to my rifle"

Or shotgun...

Yes, should have put long gun I suppose.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: LABTECH767

He is alive, none of us were there so we can not know what really happened except that these kid's came armed, in case anyone was in the house, maybe they have harmed others before but this time they met there match and got sent to there maker.

Maybe, maybe, they weren't 'armed'. Knife and brass knocks aren't 'arms'. in the proper sense of the term.

However, to let one know you are armed the best sound I can think of is the rack of a twelve gauge slide, Tchk-Tchk!

And, "I'm armed, the police are coming!"

I guarantee you those kids would have fallen over themselves trying get out of there.

regardless, I think the outcome is better than a timid voice saying "hey, what are you doing here, please don't cave in my skull with those brass knuckles". -Armchair Quarterback looking forward to Monday Morning.