Senate Republicans Just Voted to Kill Internet Privacy

a reply to: redmage

Yes, and there was no law then to protect privacy. ISP did it on their own, supposedly, although the information was collected.
That is what I was saying in above posts. The suppliers will still do what sells, because consumers drive demand.
They know people will not want them selling identifying information.
Nothing was stopping them before the Oct. 2016 law, yet the did it because they want consumers to be satisfied.

Again, and again - the current law that is potentially being repealed was started October 2016.
When it is repealed, things will be how they always were before that.

This is exactly the point that I have been trying to make.
The law that is being repealed did nothing except cause more loops for ISP to jump through. They still collect and sell information. They use hidden opt-ins and fine print to imply consent.

Whether Trump signs the new law or not - nothing will change other than going back to how things were done for years before October 2016.

The OP claims that there is going to be some drastic change in how things were always done. There is not.

a reply to: BlueAjah

It appears you're failing to acknowledge the clear difference between "companies compiling market research reports about how groups of people use their networks", and "companies compiling research reports about individuals to be sold".

This law was a regulation that recognized individuals' right to privacy as it relates to the modern electronic age.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: redmage

Again, and again - the current law that is potentially being repealed was started October 2016.
When it is repealed, things will be how they always were before that.

Again...You entirely fail to answer the substance of the question...

What was so bad about THIS...that the GOP and Trump had to pass a bill to repeal it?

The rules that are being repealed would have required explicit consent from consumers if sensitive data — like financial or health information, or browsing history — were to be shared or sold by your internet service provider...No longer..

THAT is what GOP n Trump are repealing...

On the difference between Google, FB et al and ISPs that this rule applied to?

YES...Google and FB collect data for advertising and they also offer opt-outs for much of it.

BUT...Advertisers biggest frustration is that people use multiple devices...Phone, tablet, PC etc. etc. and Google and FB can only identify someone's activity (if that person does not opt out) by their specific activity on their platform.

Trump is now permitting Internet Service Providers to collect and sell individual data compiled across devices AND telling ISPs they do not have to offer an Opt-Out or ask permission to do so.

So your Internet Service Provider becomes the one ring to rule them all..They know where you are going and what you are doing from the moment your device connects to the internet.

WHY...did the rules demanding ISPs get consumer permission to share or sell data get repealed by Trump and GOP?

a reply to: Indigo5

so what facebook and and every website already give out info on you to advertizers. don't believe me use google on your phone to lets say look up a 20 inch bmx bike then a few minutes later look at your facebook page there will be adds for the exact bike you just looked at on google on your facebook page. this law only kept isps from making same bank. all i remember was obama giving up control of the internet last year.

a reply to: proteus33

You can choose to use alternatives to those services. In most cases you can't choose to use an alternative ISP if you still want service.

Also, Obama giving up control over ICANN has nothing to do with any of this. They don't even cover the same things, one has to do with internet access and the other with server hosting.

a reply to: proteus33

Google and FB...If you have an "account" on either...can and do use your data to market to you..

You can also Opt-Out..

That data is tied to you FB account or Gmail account..

An ISP is an internet service provider..The wires that connect you to the internet before you log onto Google or FB.

This law that was repealed forbid your ISP from collecting and selling your entire internet history/activity (not just a FB or Google account)...they would have been required to explicitly ask your permission first...Meaning it wasn't automatic or fine print, but they would have to have you actively check a box or say yes to having your data collected and sold.

Your ISP is not limited to a google account or FB account, It is not limited to your home PC or Phone...It is everything on your internet activity.

AGAIN...WHY...Can anyone tell me why it is a good thing to let ISPs collect and sell your entire internet activity across all devices and accounts?

I honestly thought this one might be the one that makes the cult concede 'actually, this isn't great'

Nope. More aggressively defensive hypocrisy. If Obama did this you would all be spitting out your tobacco in a rage.

originally posted by: angeldoll
Trump is proving repeatedly that he is only working for big business and money. He gives no thought or consideration to the individual person, as promised in his campaign speeches.

This might be the biggest "bait and switch" in history.

Ahhh , What do you think is the Reason why he got Elected ?
and TPTB allowed him to RUN!

It's NOT! his Political Skills!

He is Big Business , he Deal's with Business
he Knows, and Dealt with the Majors in the League of Business
and had acquaintances with them ,

Major Company's are Running the Planet.

Not Politicians, not the branches of Governments ,
they are just the Secretaries, the Advisers ,and Law enforcers
for TPTB



So of Course These Companies will get into your privacy
to see what makes you tick and what you like and what the Hell you BUY Online.



as i said before back in the late 90s Intel & Microsoft Cooperated with THE CIA & NSA
With Windows 98 & Pentium III processor with a Serial Stamped ID. linked with Dial UP or Cable
causing a Back Door Remote Access to see every move
with a certain Special Design Programs that the CIA and NSA
Had Used. until one Machine Language Programmer Discovered the Back Door.
and had it exposed.

The NSA’s backdoor in Microsoft Windows – We knew in 1999
Posted by ninjagambleyen on September 3, 2015
ninjagambleyen.wordpress.com...



Your Computer May Already Be Hacked — NSA Inside?
By Steve Blank

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell
www.huffingtonpost.com...



So this too ME is Nothing NEW.

Thanks to the Historical Cause

OF

The Enabling Act of 1933 ( Nazi Germany )
en.wikipedia.org...

The Enabling Act (German: Ermächtigungsgesetz) was a 1933 Weimar Constitution amendment that gave the German Cabinet – in effect, Chancellor Adolf Hitler – the power to enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag. It passed in both the Reichstag and Reichsrat on 24 March 1933, and was signed by President Paul von Hindenburg later that day. The act stated that it was to last four years unless renewed by the Reichstag, which occurred twice. The Enabling Act gave Hitler plenary powers. It followed on the heels of the Reichstag Fire Decree, which abolished most civil liberties and transferred state powers to the Reich government. The combined effect of the two laws was to transform Hitler's government into a legal dictatorship.

Turned into

International Security Act of 1950 AKA McCarran Act ( McCarthyism )
en.wikipedia.org...

Its titles were I: Subversive Activities Control (Subversive Activities Control Act) and II: Emergency Detention (Emergency Detention Act of 1950).[1] The Act required Communist organizations to register with the United States Attorney General and established the Subversive Activities Control Board to investigate persons suspected of engaging in subversive activities or otherwise promoting the establishment of a "totalitarian dictatorship," either fascist or communist. Members of these groups could not become citizens and in some cases were prevented from entering or leaving the country. Citizens found in violation could lose their citizenship in five years. The Act also contained an emergency detention statute, giving the President the authority to apprehend and detain "each person as to whom there is a reasonable ground to believe that such person probably will engage in, or probably will conspire with others to engage in, acts of espionage or sabotage."[2] It tightened alien exclusion and deportation laws and allowed for the detention of dangerous, disloyal, or subversive persons in times of war or "internal security emergency". The Act made picketing a federal courthouse a felony[3] if intended to obstruct the court system or influence jurors or other trial participants.[4]

turned into

Patriot Act ( on the Books a Year Before, 911 )
came Active After 911

The USA PATRIOT Act is an Act of Congress that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001.[1] With its ten-letter abbreviation (USA PATRIOT) expanded, the full title is "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001".[2] On May 26, 2011, President Barack Obama signed the PATRIOT Sunsets Extension Act of 2011, a four-year extension of three key provisions in the Act:[3] roving wiretaps, searches of business records, and conducting surveillance of "lone wolves"—individuals suspected of terrorist-related activities not linked to terrorist groups.[4] Following a lack of Congressional approval, parts of the Patriot Act expired on June 1, 2015.[5] With the passage of the USA Freedom Act on June 2, 2015, the expired parts were restored and renewed through 2019.[6] However, Section 215 of the law was amended to stop the National Security Agency (NSA) from continuing its mass phone data collection program.[6] Instead, phone companies will retain the data and the NSA can obtain information about targeted individuals with permission from a federal court.[6] From broad concern felt among Americans from both the September 11 attacks and the 2001 anthrax attacks, Congress rushed to pass legislation to strengthen security controls. On October 23, 2001, Republican Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner introduced H.R. 3162 incorporating provisions from a previously sponsored House bill and a Senate bill also introduced earlier in the month.[7] The next day, the Act passed the House 357 to 66,[8] with Democrats comprising the overwhelming portion of dissent. The three Republicans voting 'no' were Robert Ney of Ohio, Butch Otter of Idaho and Ron Paul of Texas. On October 25, the Act passed the Senate by 98 to 1.[9]

and

Re Edited re versioned to

Freedom Act ( a Different Lesser Version of the Patriot Act )
en.wikipedia.org...

The USA Freedom Act (H.R. 2048, Pub.L. 114–23) is a U.S. law enacted on June 2, 2015 that restored in modified form several provisions of the Patriot Act, which had expired the day before. The act imposes some new limits on the bulk collection of telecommunication metadata on U.S. citizens by American intelligence agencies, including the National Security Agency. It also restores authorization for roving wiretaps and tracking lone wolf terrorists.[3][4] The title of the act originally was a ten-letter backronym (USA FREEDOM) that stood for Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ending Eavesdropping, Dragnet-collection and Online Monitoring Act.

Obviously some Dont Know this

I suggest you google the Acts


" THE WORLD IS A BUSINESS "

a reply to: Wolfenz


I just want to get this out of the way. I agree with you.


But don't go blaming government or big business. No more than you should blame drug dealers for addiction problems. STOP BUYING WHAT THEY'RE SELLING....stop with the facebook, go back to brick and mortars, drop the twitter....or



Learn how to friggin protect yourself.....ATS stars and flags wont protect you.

Isn't this what conservatives want though? Make the mega-rich into Hyper-Mega-Rich and maybe some pennies will fall from their pockets and we can fight over that sweet trickle down. Why would a conservative care what their personal information is being sold so long as some fantastically wealthy tech executive can double his hundred million dollar salary?

originally posted by: redmage
a reply to: DanDanDat

Using your devil's advocate logic... why not extend it to hotels?

You didn’t build or own the hotel that is allowing you to access a sleeping room. A hotel can hardly be considered a “privet” area, rather quite the opposite, their rooms are open to all for a fee. So why shouldn’t your hotel be able to record and sell what is happening “inside” the rooms they own and maintain? On what grounds do you have to claim your conduct in this privately owned (not by you) public hotel cannot be recorded and used by the owner of that hotel? All you've done is simply rent access to a room.

Or maybe your local gym's locker room?

You didn’t build or own the gym that is allowing you to access showers and a changing area. A gym can hardly be considered a “privet” area, rather quite the opposite, their facilities are open to all for a fee. So why shouldn’t your gym be able to record and sell what is happening “inside” the premises they own and maintain? On what grounds do you have to claim your conduct in this privately owned (not by you) public gym cannot be recorded and used by the owner of that gym? All you've done is simply "rent" access.

It's bad enough that any of these (including the original ISPs being discussed) would consider recording your activities, let alone turning around and selling such to make another buck off you after you've already payed them. Yes, you're now paying them for the privilege of allowing them to further make money off of selling your recorded activities. At this point it seems we should be getting a cut of the profits from our initial "investment".

Those are good examples; I certainly don't think my hotel room or gym locker are private spaces. I would never do anything in either of them that I wouldn't want others to know about because they are not at all secure.

Also you can most centrally be upset with your ISP for both charging you for use of their system and then using the data they collect about you; but that’s not really the issue. The issue is should they be allowed to by law to do so.

You are always free to choose which companies you do business with. You can choose not to do business with an ISP that both charges you for use and sells your data if you feel they are over capitalizing on the service they are providing you.

originally posted by: Indigo5

AGAIN...WHY...Can anyone tell me why it is a good thing to let ISPs collect and sell your entire internet activity across all devices and accounts?

I can't tell you why it's a good thing, because it's not. But I can tell you why it's being done. We are being psychologically targeted and manipulated on a mass scale you can't even imagine. Trump will be signing this repeal too, you can bet on it.

As others have said, for one thing he's a business man and this is greatly in favor of business. But it's more than that. One of the ways Trump was so successful in his campaign was his access to massive amounts of data mined information from the internet. But don't think for one second that the Dems don't have access to that very same data if they want. This data is being mined from private companies who sell that data and use it for all number of purposes from consumer research to social engineering.

I think they have finally seen the real payoff in all their efforts to manipulate others by digitizing and quantifying every aspect of our lives. With this step of accessing the root of who we are by getting our info from our ISP's it's like having a window right into everything we do in life and who we are. Medical records, gun ownership, political choices, entertainment, porn usage, even what interests you may have by what you search for. Even without facebook they'll know where you go, what you buy, when you buy it, when you leave for work, what coffee you like, what products you buy, etc. Basically everything. I mean everything including any relationships you have with others.

Think about how powerful that is. It's Bernaize's wet Dream for psychological manipulation and control over the populace. Think about what was possible back when your thoughts and actions were largely private and what can be done now with knowing what people are doing from a large overall scale down to each individual!!!

Our minds have been tapped and are now being manipulated. It's being done by computers and organizations that have more wealth and power than most governments in the world. You really think this isn't a big deal or that it won't effect you, you're dreaming.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
You are always free to choose which companies you do business with. You can choose not to do business with an ISP that both charges you for use and sells your data if you feel they are over capitalizing on the service they are providing you.

But you can't do so while retaining internet access.

Providing a service shouldn't give a company carte blanche to harvest your information. Do you think the electric company should be allowed to use meters that track spikes in electricity usage, and therefore know by neighborhood when people are available so they can sell that info to door to door or telephone marketers?

That's what's going on here, except they're doing it on an individual level. It's a total invasion of privacy and goes well beyond the scope of service a utility provider should be able to provide.

Oh Oh !

House passes bill undoing Obama internet privacy rule



hurry up and cover your tracks !

Imagine a river.

Now imagine a gate.

You pay to use the gate and gain access to the river.

Some is standing on the gate, counting the boats, jotting down their direction, color, capacity, etc.

Merchants pay for that info so they can better sell you products.

What is the problem with that?

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: xuenchen
Browsing History is picked up by ad-bots anyway and stored in databases.

Doesn't matter much who they think YOU are does it.

This will go deeper than that. They would even be able sell your health information, and information about your children.

Trump wants to boost ISP's and businesses, and you will give up what little privacy you have left.

And really, getting to the bottom of this, anyone has the right to be compensated for the use of their privet info. Cant understand why there hasn't been class action. This is worse that using your image.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: xuenchen
Browsing History is picked up by ad-bots anyway and stored in databases.

Doesn't matter much who they think YOU are does it.

This will go deeper than that. They would even be able sell your health information, and information about your children.

Trump wants to boost ISP's and businesses, and you will give up what little privacy you have left.

And really, getting to the bottom of this, anyone has the right to be compensated for the use of their privet info. Cant understand why there hasn't been class action. This is worse that using your image.

Do you expect compensation from Facebook? They'really able to draw up a much more complete picture of "you" and "your information" than your ISP ever will.

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: xuenchen
Browsing History is picked up by ad-bots anyway and stored in databases.

Doesn't matter much who they think YOU are does it.

This will go deeper than that. They would even be able sell your health information, and information about your children.

Trump wants to boost ISP's and businesses, and you will give up what little privacy you have left.

And really, getting to the bottom of this, anyone has the right to be compensated for the use of their privet info. Cant understand why there hasn't been class action. This is worse that using your image.

Do you expect compensation from Facebook? They'really able to draw up a much more complete picture of "you" and "your information" than your ISP ever will.

That's only for those ignorant enough to actually use facebook. That's not even relevant to the discussion. You don't NEED facebook to establish a foreign connection to another server; you do however need an ISP to do so, and that's exactly the problem. The analogy about the electric company was a good one in an earlier post...in that analogy, the only option to not have your personal details (in that case when you were and were not home) sold to marketers would be to simply not have electricity. The same applies here, the only option would be to be completely disconnected OR you are left in the uncomfortable position of workarounds such that your ISP would not be wary of your browsing habits.

originally posted by: Tempter
Imagine a river.

Now imagine a gate.

You pay to use the gate and gain access to the river.

Some is standing on the gate, counting the boats, jotting down their direction, color, capacity, etc.

Plus....Your political leaning, your porn preferences, income bracket, shopping habits, time zone, geographic location, complete internet search history et al. and slap an identifier linked to your billing name and address on it for sales purposes and then hock the data to Insurers, Political Orgs, Marketing companies, credit agencies, potential employers doing background checks et al.

Merchants pay for that info so they can better sell you products.

What is the problem with that?

Depends on what you consider private...and who you consider merchants..

Here is an article from 2013...Back when Pres. Obama started to recognize the problem..

Data companies are scooping up enormous amounts of information about almost every American. They sell information about whether you're pregnant or divorced or trying to lose weight, about how rich you are and what kinds of cars you have.

Regulators and some in Congress have been taking a closer look at these so-called data brokers — and are beginning to push the companies to give consumers more information and control over what happens to their data.

They start with the basics, like names, addresses and contact information, and add on demographics, like age, race, occupation and "education level," according to consumer data firm Acxiom's overview of its various categories.

But that's just the beginning: The companies collect lists of people experiencing "life-event triggers" like getting married, buying a home, sending a kid to college — or even getting divorced.

Credit reporting giant Experian has a separate marketing services division, which sells lists of "names of expectant parents and families with newborns" that are "updated weekly."

The companies also collect data about your hobbies and many of the purchases you make. Want to buy a list of people who read romance novels? Epsilon can sell you that, as well as a list of people who donate to international aid charities.

A subsidiary of credit reporting company Equifax even collects detailed salary and paystub information for roughly 38 percent of employed Americans, as NBC news reported. As part of handling employee verification requests, the company gets the information directly from employers.

Equifax said in a statement that the information is only sold to customers "who have been verified through a detailed credentialing process."

gizmodo.com...

ALL THAT was from 2013...FOUR years ago...a lifetime in Big Data technology...

WHY again is Trump repealing the only significant protection put into place for consumer data thus far???

Always Follow the Money Folks

An extended look at Rep. Marsha Blackburn's history of industry campaign donations to her, comprised of both individuals in the industry and their associated political action committees, shows that the industry has substantially financed her election campaigns over the course of her 14-year congressional career, totaling at least $693,000.