Retail Apocalypse Hitting America - More Jobs Lost to Automation

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Revolution9

Who can build a better guitar than Gibson or Fender?

I love my Strat and Mockingbird but they usually stay in the case. I gig with a Korean, plywood Kay. It sounds as good as any Martin or Taylor and I love it.

My favorite music store is now empty and vacant and I now buy all my gear on line.

By the way, it's the Republicans that killed the Unions; Just more profit for the Corporate Oligarchy. See the pattern now?

Yeah, I see the pattern. I am somehow hoping like that Bob Dylan song "Things have changed". I was praying that DT might deliver just some of what he promised you. By golly G you need it.

I may as well be honest and explain my reasoning:

We are being fools and sinking in on ourselves in the West. We think that we are no good. We're suffering a guilt trip about the past and confusion about the future. Looking for somebody to blame for all the pain.

It's no way to go. Now is time to FIGHT for the future. I am telling you that you are worth it. People in the free world DEPEND on America. That is why I show you respect because I know this and I want you to be strong for us all.

Nobody can change the past. We were all savages of one kind or another. We are all learning though. There are so many ways the world is getting better. Just a few fools will try and terrorize us and hold us back, but we have to make it because there is no other choice.

I feel sometimes like I am talking the world out of the suicide option, lol.

Don't attack yourselves for who you are, Dear U.S. You are cherished and vital.

What do you do about the still felt ramifications of our (and I totally agree everyone was) brutal past???

What do you do when NO African American before the last 50 years recieved ANY inheritance??? And because of that they are still being killed by the consequences of that.. at least in relation to white Americans??

It's easy to say forget the past, when your not the one still feeling the effects of that past??

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: soficrow

Any company that introduces automation to replace a worker has pretty much lost my business.

There is no bearing it that way.. period robots are soooo much cheaper it won't matter.

We get to reinvent the wheel...

I'm sure roaming gangs of unruly teens,
and gang shootings at malls had no impact whatsoever

OWN THE ROBOT!!!

originally posted by: acackohfcc
I'm sure roaming gangs of unruly teens,
and gang shootings at malls had no impact whatsoever

Considering they have been a staple of malls all throughout their history , and what matters about a buisness is it's profibility..

Plus the fact all the brick and mortar places are closing, not moving to the rich part of town..

More than anything else is that just period the net is cheaper... and a buisness is about profit.

a reply to: seasonal

This small little one line post but it's so important. The super rich can only consume so much.

Yep, you can automate a great, cheap, on-line market place with goods from China and programmers from India.

For a while you WILL make a ton of money and unless there are some type of tax implications. I'll go even further and say you COULDN'T operate at a profit with American goods and workers.

Eventually.....though your CONSUMERS will go away and even with your cheap labor and goods no one will be there to buy it and that low rate. Sure, you try to drive down wages even more that just starts the cycle again.

What happens in the instance, is that all but the 1% are in poverty.....

I think we at the start of the upper middle class (the 100,000 to 500,000) earnings starting to get hurt. That's why we see a shift towards American labor. I don't think any of these changes will work though.

It's not about creating money, it's about creating power.

a reply to: soficrow

I am really going out on a limb for you here. You should LISTEN to your own poets and thinkers when times get tough and when you lose the way. Listen to your Fathers who made that land.

Sorry I keep using music, but I am trying to say something in the only way I know how to in a quick way and songs can speak volumes in just 3 or so minutes.

In Bob's "The Times They Are A Changing" he writes about dealing with change; the dos and the don'ts of it all. This is just for reference, so please skip if it bores you:



bobdylan.com...

"Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin’
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin’
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’

Copyright

© 1963, 1964 by Warner Bros. Inc.; renewed 1991, 1992 by Special Rider Music"

He is telling us that we must keep a fresh mind, defend ourselves, be strong in our vision, be ruthless dealing with old ideas, not stand in the way of the future and new visions. I could write more about that song than the words in the song itself and many more indeed.

This can be applied even to those who are blocking DT. I don't know because I am not American and must be careful to mind my own business. It can be applied to letting old stuff hold you back, like all the guilt stuff I mentioned (emotional baggage).

If we are going to survive the future is undoubtedly GREEN. God and Satan, all Heaven and Hell will both agree presently with me on that score I assure you.

Look for the opportunities and it will be like finding the leprechaun and his pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. America can and must try to lead the way. Don't lose out. The old is dying so the new must quickly be born in time.

Agriculture, horticulture, non intensive and realistically resource based less polluting industry all round, gardening, fresh food, organic farming, wind mills, solar panels, solar energy, "every little helps so Mr Tesco tells me", non intensive local fishing (so stocks can get healthy again), "maid" technologies that start cleaning up the planet and doing the collective universal "house work" for that messy apartment of planet earth. Everything that can be accounted for and balanced against our environment.

It is already working. I live my little life on a basic kind of universal income. I don't work and I do my music. All my studio is now invisible and is in the virtual realm as code that moth or rust can't touch (no need for natural resources to be sacrificed for that then). I walk and cycle everywhere and occasionally take a train. It's cool. I play with my mind and with code more than any other thing and so do many of you now.

We can make it if we try, my friends.

For the sake of all this I would give even Mr Kim and Putin a chance to get this thing going. One day you will have to do as I have told you here today, sooner or later. That is why I write with such clarity of vision and confidence. Do it the easy way. I am giving you the heads up, Dear America. I want you to be strong for us and lead the free world. The alternatives are presently nowhere near as nice.

See how much I care for you. Nobody pays me to do this. I do this out of care and affection.

It seems like people got hip to the 'Designer' phenomenon in Malls. It's all products of China by and large. The same stuff as online, only without the pretty bags and big prices. So yea, the Malls are in the crosshairs for elimination.

Then too.... the Boomers would rather shop from home than get in traffic, look for parking, navigate a huge building, and run the risk of a terrorist incident.

a reply to: richapau

Any company that introduces automation to replace a worker has pretty much lost my business.

I get your sentiment, but hope you are only speaking of say fat food and self checkout lanes.

I am in the skilled trades. 30 years sheet metal worker. We pride ourselves on the saying, "if you can draw it we can build it" and that is true. Taking flat metal and turning it into anything you want.

Back in the day every sheet metal shop had layout guys... building fittings. (You all have them in your house)... Now adays almost every shop has a computerized plasma table to do layout.

And a coil line to build straight duct work.

Just saying, if you ever build a new house, when it comes to the heating system you better hand make your stuff or find an old school sheet metal shop.

a reply to: Revolution9

re: not many books talk about our current situation.

Alvin Toffler has many great futuristic books. Third Wave n others mention all this n what's to come. Has been scarily accurate so far! :/

a reply to: Revolution9

I am really going out on a limb for you here. You should LISTEN to your own poets and thinkers when times get tough and when you lose the way. Listen to your Fathers who made that land.

We did; And were called dirty hippies, commies, human filth and useless eaters by the now conservative Republican corporate masters.

Now we are middle class and losing ground every day to the 1% elite controllers. Me and my crew still sing and play Dylan songs in all of our 3 sets. And always close with "Watchtower"

America is changing and it's getting harder to find gigs...now it's a DJ or Karaoke. Thank God for the Biker bars, they still appreciate kick ass Rock and Roll.... AS HST said....

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

a reply to: soficrow

Will this have some effect on people wanting to have children way down the road>>>

Open a bar. That's the only service industry that actually grows the worse the job market gets.

originally posted by: underwerks
Open a bar. That's the only service industry that actually grows the worse the job market gets.

Lmao?!?

What stops a machine from making mixed drinks????

Nothing...


Hell that would be infinitely cheaper than one that handles the grill. At McDonald's..

Even the jobs that seem to require a human are really only "seem to require a human for now.."

One segment of the job market that is growing and will continue to grow, as more brick and mortar shops close down, is transportation and logistics; the people who drive the trucks and deliver your online purchases. You don't need a higher education to do the job and can still make 6 figures, with really good benefits.

Plus, more trucks on the roads, mean more road maintenance jobs, and all of the imports from overseas keep the longshoremen at the ports employed.

Small, but a silver lining nonetheless.

The Mall is wack because it sells useless bric-a-brac and some video games.

I make my own bows. Am I going to find a quality drawknife at the mall??? Seriously? The ones from the big-box hardware stores are made with cheap, brittle chinese steel--they will break rather than bend around the staff you are shaping. Online is the only place you will find one.

Same with fletching materials. The big-box "Outdoor Store" (!) types don't begin to carry everything you need. Sure, they carry the most expensive combound bows, and arrows pre-flighted; but unless you shoot the single most popular draw weight and arrow-type, they literally have nothing for you.

If they carry ANY bowstring fiber, they will carry a single spool of a single weight. Even though hand-made bowstrings are made from two contrasting colors of fiber, so that you can see that it's made right ( like a Flemish Twist, for instance).

The only quiver they sell is meant to bolted right onto your bow. Which assumes you are hunting from a stand, and are only taking a single shot. (Then why buy a quiver). Because each time you shoot an arrow, the weight of your bow will change, and so will its shooting. And you cannot stalk-hunt with a quiver or anything else stuck on the side of your bow, adding weight and movement to your bow arm...

But the teenager working the archery department will tell you that it's impossible to stalk successfully. Which I guess is why they sell thousand-dollar tree stand kits.

Until the internet came along, bowyers and fletchers had to make their own kit from scratch. I prefer to focus on a single aspect of archery, and let the industrial age take care of the other aspects for me. So I can order pre- cut and dyed feathers, aluminum shafts, etc while I work on hammering out my arrowheads from old steel or silver spoons.

The internet has helped me spend money I wouldn't have spent at the mall anyway.

maybe an orange julius.

originally posted by: Olivine
One segment of the job market that is growing and will continue to grow, as more brick and mortar shops close down, is transportation and logistics; the people who drive the trucks and deliver your online purchases. You don't need a higher education to do the job and can still make 6 figures, with really good benefits.

Plus, more trucks on the roads, mean more road maintenance jobs, and all of the imports from overseas keep the longshoremen at the ports employed.

Small, but a silver lining nonetheless.

Truck driving will be gone in a decade with self driving cars.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: soficrow

A comment on the Universal Basic Income topic... it would actually be less expensive to provide universal basic income to everyone, than it is to combat poverty and all of the costs associated with it.

The US government could literally eradicate poverty in the U.S., and save money on tons of social service programs, healthcare costs, etc. but because poverty creates business opportunities, for many industries (like healthcare, which I mentioned), I don't see it happening. Not anytime soon anyway..

One problem.

Even with the idea of UBI, you still have to get the money from somewhere. If no one is working except robots, then there is no one with money to take to give to all those who don't have because of robots. And if only the robots are making and no one is working to earn what they are making, then there is no profit to be earned from robots. So why bother making robot-produced cheap goods?

If the doom spiral is so bad, then there is no point.

They will simply let all the excess starve.

Not only that, but many people who are poor are poor because they make poor decisions with their life and the money they do have. Not only that, but they do not know how to manage money now.

So give them basic UBI and we will still see poor people because they will blow it and end up starving on the streets.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Even with the idea of UBI, you still have to get the money from somewhere.

You hear people say that money is fiat all the time except when it comes discussions like this then it is this valued thing that suddenly can only exist if an employer hands it over in exchange for labor.

So give them basic UBI and we will still see poor people because they will blow it and end up starving on the streets.

And there is your answer. Ever since the 80's I've heard that the US is a consumer driven economy.

Give 350 million people (using the US as an example) $1000.00 a month and they will spend it on the robot produced goods. Money is just circulating/recirculating anyway.

a reply to: daskakik

Give Americans $1,000/mo., guaranteed, without working for it, and they'll spend it on drugs and hookers.

Then say they don't have enough money.