Elongated Skulls from Peru DNA Results

a reply to: Marduk

i don't take you seriously, are you saying that all of the elongated skulls found around the world are all suffering from the same deformity , like having a different amount of fontanelles than Humans do ?. I don't take you seriously because you are obviously gullible and believe anything main stream science say's . Oh they'd never lie to me ?

originally posted by: robmck
a reply to: Marduk

i don't take you seriously, are you saying that all of the elongated skulls found around the world are all suffering from the same deformity , like having a different amount of fontanelles than Humans do ?. I don't take you seriously because you are obviously gullible and believe anything main stream science say's . Oh they'd never lie to me ?

You don't take me seriously because you don't know anything about this subject that you haven't learned from Foerster
that's a shame that you don't realise its a con. but why should I care,
Like here, where there's been tons of evidence posted proving its a con game, but you either didn't bother to read it, or didn't understand it

I posted absolute proof that Foerster was lying about the results a few posts back to a guy who in response
1. didn't understand why it was proof
2, said he didn't care about understanding genetics better to understand why it was proof

How are you any different, do you understand how genetics works, like do you realise that its impossible for the paracas skulls to be a natural deformation...
You should probably read this and get back to me,
en.wikipedia.org...
and this
en.wikipedia.org...
and definitely this
www.atlasobscura.com...
if you really care about long headed babies, then you should read this
breechbirth.org.uk...

but I doubt you will, because you have already made your mind up without looking at any real evidence

you could just google "Artificial cranial deformation", but yeah, you probably don't have the time

Robmk AND Marduk


Stop with the bickering, you both have point's and the flaw I see in your argument Marduk is a view of exclusivity.

Children are born with strange shaped head's all the time, some are deformed and some are just that way.


Robmk some at least in fact the majority of these skull's ARE artificially deformed through a number of method's ranging from bandaging baby's head's to strapping board's to baby's head's in order to make them grow in a way which for some reason these tribe's believed to be either beautiful or in some cases divine so emulating there god figure's.


I personally DO believe some of these skull's are NOT artificially deformed, some are different enough to either be mutation or a seperate sub species of human.


NOTE also that for those people's whom found this trait attractive a level of selective breeding especially among there elite caste may have occurred so accentuating a natural trait in some family's and tribes over time as well.

www.perceptions.couk.com...

Note also I hate the following site because of Pop Up windows so you have been warned.
www.ancient-origins.net...

These should be ok
www.aquiziam.com...
blog.world-mysteries.com...
locklip.com...
webecoist.momtastic.com...
www.odditycentral.com...

All manner of mutation's, can and do Occur to the human species, given our numbers today these mutations including the possible RECESSIVE trait of six or even seven fingers and toes on each limb are often rectified by surgery while in infancy but in some poorer part's of the world were these people with horn like protrusion's live those facility's and medical care are not readily available, in fact even tail's often vestigial do occur but in at least one case in living memory a child was born with a full working prehensile tail, they removed it in infancy but it was a genuine occurance.


Now just a what if thought for you Marduk, I am not asking your opinion because I fully believe that the Smithsonian in the US and several other entrenched organizations have destroyed vast amount's of artifact's relating to non cannon history and by non cannon I mean the model they WANT us to believe, to standardize as a method of forcing a homogeneous view upon us and perhaps as a social engineering act but whatever there politic's or reason, science, sociological or even religious it DID happen.
But I digress and my thought is this.

We domesticate animal's, they grow mature much younger and so breed much younger, what if something similar happened to humanity at the hand's of another species?, what if they bread human's for a number of different purposed including to eat but mainly as a slave or worker cast, not a pleasant thought by any mean's but what if we mature unnaturally young, our lives have been deliberately made shorter and we never grow to the same size we may once have been, what if our natural life span was as in line with the bible in the hundreds of years and we once grew much, much larger, we could just be stunted though.

Like I say I don't want your answer as I know what it would be and NO I do not agree with the standard model of human evolution, it is preached more like a religion than a science as any and all contrary data that does not FIT the accepted model is rejected, for god's sake even the Paloxy track's were destroyed by some scum bag with an iron bar but not before a fresh track uncovered and take for testing showed they were not weathered into that shape and had been made by a human type foot, in that case not a giant but a person with a large foot who walked like us, weighed about the same as us and that was done by studying not the surface foot print but the radial compression of particles under it still locked into teh stone since that mud was petrified.
And yes here is a creationist video, by the way they may have an axe to grind but at least they mean there ARE two voices in the room so both religion's have there argument's and the free thinker can find some place in between.

www.footprintsinstone.com...
www.bible.ca...


As for the paluxy track's this man may indeed be innocent but I do believe someone destroyed them.
www.bible.ca...

I mean a strange object crashes to earth and it is covered up, a strange artifact that may be technological is discovered and it is not disclosed to the public, on and on and on.

Some one on this site does not like Linda Moulton Howe or I would post a video about a possible ancient black pyramid buried in Alaska that may be a power plant from a forgotten civlization which therefore was likely around BEFORE lucy?.

But hey some people think the ruin's off of Cuba under 1275 feet of water are too deep to be a city, too deep because there sole argument against it is the time it would have taken to get there to that depth which they estimate at over 50.000 years give or take (they are wrong it could have got there a lot quicker due to sub-crustal magma equalization as pressure was relaxed on that part of the crust due to a reduction in pressure as the ice melted on the northern continent's and the weight of the ocean's simultaneously increased pushing the ocean plate downward, also the potential for and evidence of a sea saw motion type effect having affected the southern American continent as it's plates slide over some very thick and ancient (perhaps even proto continent) pacific plate's while on it's eastern sea board the ocean crust there is relatively extremely thin and young so not as buoyant but that is a seperate subject only peripherally related to this through the context of lost ancient culture's.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You don't want a reply
well then, this is for everyone else
The claim that the Smithsonian covered up the truth were first aired in an article written by David Hatcher Childress to explain why he had no evidence to support his wild claims
If you don't know that, then you are wasting everyones time in being here
But here's snopes
www.snopes.com...
Here's Colavito
www.jasoncolavito.com...

Feel free to provide a point by point refutation in another thread
Of course I know you won't, because you haven't actually studied this subject as much as you have just bought into it because a person with no academic qualifications told you it was true. When I come across a new claim I investigate and research to find out the truth, but you just believe, because that's what you've been programmed to do

I am getting sick and tired of people on these forums who on reading something don't question it and then post it as if its the truth. If you haven't even looked into it then you are spouting even more unqualified opinion and unqualified opinion is utterly worthless. Do some research from real sources. Don't you owe yourselves that. I've been doing this for twenty years now and its always the same crap. I must have explained the facts now on the Paracas skulls and Foersters con game 50 times, but wait, here comes someone who just read something Foerster wrote ten minutes ago telling me I don't know anything
dry that out, make use of it, fertilise your lawn with it. I am telling you that you are being conned and you don't even care to check...






BTW, the ruins off Cuba turned out to be prefabricated missile silos, even the A.R.E admitted that, but hey, don't let the truth slow you down.

originally posted by: Marduk
a reply to: Wolfenz

Firstly why even bother to quote me when you don't make any response to the quote, you are wasting my time because no one else takes you seriously, gotta tell you, with your hero worship of Hancock and Foerster, I don't take you seriously either, you're lining yourself up for a time share scam

Wow you need to check your facts

Julia Pastrana

She was born with a genetic condition, hypertrichosis terminalis (or generalized hypertrichosis lanuginosa[3]); her face and body were covered with straight black hair. Her ears and nose were unusually large, and her teeth were irregular. The latter condition was caused by a rare disease, undiagnosed in her lifetime, Gingival hyperplasia, which thickened her lips and gums

So wasn't a throwback, just an unfortunate woman who turned her handicap into profit...

and so perhaps you can tell me what any of this nonsense has to do with the con that this thread is discussing ?

This is what the fifth time you've posted nonsense to me, its getting boring now

hmm .. LOL Taken Seriously? it all just Conjuncture and Opinions MarDUK.

You like to slam every person on this Website , and it show your getting a reputation a bad one.

Wasting your time? , why bother posting

if you think have been taking everyone Seriously on this site , you got to be Joking right ?
and they should take all mine? , it just my Conjuncture my Opinion , my theory and IDEAS here on this Site

Half of this site is not even Originality on its Threads , just Copies from other Sites and News sites
it sure isnt Above Top Secret. , unless someone intervenes and Post something they Know differently
then what the OP is Posting ,

MY Hero Worship? LOL

Have you Spoken too them , had Replies from them ? Email, Facebook , as i have

how about the late Llyod Pye ? have you conversed with him !
I can Imagine what you think about him , LOL he sounds like a
crazy man , but he stick in what he thinks, what he believes, BIGFOOT
Annunaki a Stichen Believer , we were Hybrids created by Aliens
for being a Slave , and the Starchild Skull he is famed for.

to me he is interesting
Ive spoken him about Julia Pastrana and Atavism
he believed about the IDEA , way before
what scientist found in people in china with the same condition as Julia Pastrana had.
and what they came up with is what ive been posting Genes doubled and Missing
causing ATASIM , all Mammals and Reptiles and Birds have it

Wow Lol


Yeah yeah about the Teeth and Gums I know I know
Apparently you haven't stepped further that ..
She was Born with a genetic Condition ( well you got that right ) from WIKI


Research Much ?? just One Site Out of Many


Genes of 'Bearded Lady' Revealed
By Live Science Staff | May 21, 2009 08:03am ET
www.livescience.com...

ok what is ?
Congenital generalized hypertrichosis terminalis: a proposed classification and a plea to avoid the ambiguous term "Ambras syndrome".
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Congenital generalized hypertrichosis terminalis (CGHT) is a heterogenous group of diseases with continuing excessive growth of terminal hair. "Ambras syndrome" was first coined by Baumeister in 1993 to describe a case of nonsyndromic CGHT which was erroneously analogized to the portrait paintings of Petrus Gonzales and his children, exhibited in Ambras Castle near Innsbruck, Austria. This family probably, a syndromic type with abnormal dentition, inherited as an autosomal dominant trait. CGHT associated with gingival hyperplasia is probably a particular entity typified by the historical cases of Julia Pastrana and her son. An X-linked type of CGHT has likewise been categorized as "Ambras syndrome".

What is
autosomal dominant trait

Autosomal dominant is one of several ways that a trait or disorder can be passed down (inherited) through families. In an autosomal dominant disease, if you inherit the abnormal gene from only one parent, you can get the disease. Often, one of the parents may also have the disease.Feb 15, 2016
Autosomal dominant: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia
medlineplus.gov...


Digging Deeper

the same as what Julia pastrana has had

Modern 'Wolfmen' May Have Inherited Ancient Gene
By NATALIE ANGIER
Published: May 31, 1995
www.nytimes.com...

In fact, those with generalized hypertrichosis -- hyper meaning excess, and trichosis, hair -- are even hairier than chimpanzees or gorillas, which lack fur around the cheeks, nose and eyes. The only parts of the patients' bodies without hair are the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. This suggests that the atavism could recall something earlier than the emergence of hominoid apes about 25 million years ago. "This is probably a mutation of a gene that was a sleeping beauty," said Dr. Jose M. Cantu, head of genetics at the Mexican Institute for Social Security in Guadalajara, an author of the new report. "The mutation awakened a gene that had been put aside during evolution."

The researchers do not yet have the precise gene isolated, but merely know its approximate location, on the bottom half of the X chromosome . They found the location by examining the genetic material of a large Mexican family, whose members may be the only humans known to have this particular mutation.

Just to Note :: Julia Pastrana is a Mexican Native Indian

"Atavistic mutations tell us that a lot of information is kept around for a very long time," said Dr. Brian K. Hall, a developmental biologist at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. "Just because an animal isn't using a gene anymore doesn't mean the information just disappears." Dr. Hall wrote a commentary about atavistic mutations that appears with the report on hypertrichosis.

The most famous of the hairy "human curiosities" was Julia Pastrana, a Mexican Indian born in the 1830's who had long, thick, glossy and straight black hair covering most of her body, as well as overdevelopment of the jaw and an unusually broad, flattened nose. Scientists have tentatively diagnosed Pastrana's condition as "generalized hypertrichosis terminalis with gingival hyperplasia," a different condition from that discussed in the current report, though with the same extraordinary degree of hairiness.

you might want to tell New York Times they are Wrong if you think it is .


Hey just maybe the Elongated Skulls are BIGFOOT!
and BIGFOOT is Complete 100% Human with certain raritys

Mysteries Solved Folks Elongated Skulls Humans are Bigfoot?
just my Conjectured Theorized Opinion thats all

so perhaps you can tell me what any of this nonsense has to do with the con that this thread is discussing ? This is what the fifth time you've posted nonsense to me, its getting boring now

Well this site is about , what was discoverd about the Elogated Skulls is it not ?

found this is an odd place
www.ultimate-guitar.com...

skull binding cannot increase the internal capacity of the cranial void

might be relevant

and evidence points to the fact that in the case of the Peruvian and Mexican skulls, the cranial void is significantly larger than in a normal skull

I'm definitely looking for clarification on this

be nice..

You said she was a throwback and I said that she had genetic abnormalities

Remember ?

Now you are saying that she had genetic abnormalities

Well done, you actually learned something
Now how about you try and stay on topic.

The Paracas skulls, not your confused idea of what human evolution is..

originally posted by: kibric
found this is an odd place
www.ultimate-guitar.com...

skull binding cannot increase the internal capacity of the cranial void

The person making the claim that the internal capacity is increased is actually the same guy trying con you into going on his supernatural Inca tour, Brian Foerster. They don't have an increased capacity and as no one has subjected them to any kind of scanning machine, anyone making that claim needs to explain how they measured them. He didn't he just claimed they had bigger brains while at the same time making other claims without evidence


Being nice


btw that post was not a good source, about the only thing it got right was the bit about capacity

originally posted by: Marduk
You said she was a throwback and I said that she had genetic abnormalities

Remember ?

Now you are saying that she had genetic abnormalities

Well done, you actually learned something
Now how about you try and stay on topic.

The Paracas skulls, not your confused idea of what human evolution is..

I said She has Both and ive Posted it if you happen to look at my previous post
a caue of a throwback ATAVISM

Ah im staying on Topic ! LOl

as the Elongated Skulls have a unidentified Gene Trait
and Strains that modern MAN does Not have ,
Mind you she is 100 human , just as the Skulls are
but lest see what the Results are of what they have found
seeing they are researching what those unidentified DNA/Genes are

it took a while for what they found out on Julia Pastrana .

sounds like you need some Help MarDuk .
why bother posting . unless you like to insult
to get you off ? which IDGAF what you think,
Sounds from I see The Majority of the Members of this Site
is getting Bored of you,

but then again this Site is 50% Conspiracy 50% Debunking
as the Motto of this site is Deny Ignorance ,

instead of insulting degrading ATS Members
how about Helping and Correcting people
have them see as you do or at least try .

One member that is greatly Adored
is Phage ,, he one of those Members
that try too have you see
what he sees ,. and makes that effort of explaining .
as ive see him being slammed and just brush it off
and calmly continues to explain.
he is well respect here ,

there ya go be like Phage

a reply to: Marduk

Woaa there Marduk, LET ME ask you a question, If you and your sources are so irrefutable why they hell are you not working in this field, what are you doing posting on and criticizing on thread's that such an unimpeachable academic would not even touch with a barge pole, does this touch a nerve or something, I was actually fascinated with archaeology as a kid but it was not the subject I chose, instead I chose REAL science, you know engineering, electronic's and physics leaving that to the relatively often LESS intelligent arty type's (no offence intented to them, intelligence is a subjective point I can not paint to save my life) whom did not mind grubbing in the dirt because it is not too technical is it, there is one guy on here I will not argue too much with because he at least has civility but I wonder sometime's from some of his later thread's if perhaps someone else was using his avatar and you know who I mean, he does have one even if it may be often outside and Yes he WOULD go along with you but it is my contention he also is not always right by a long shot.

You know the world is divided in more than one way, the cleverest are not actually the most intelligent, get those bankers down to human level and put them beside the rest of us and it would go like an evolutionary diagram with them somewhere below the middle near the more primitive end of the scale, astrophysicists and quantum theory expert's with the experts on cosmology would be near the top while artist would be above the bankers simply because most true artists ARE actually very clever people just not scientific, ahead of them but below the medical doctor's and physicists would be the investigator's, Archaeologists span about two third's of that scale, the start below the bankers but even there can have very influential careers if they have the personality and the gift of the gab but they seldom reach the level of heuristic intellect needed for the medical doctors and the physicists of this world.

Put it like this, Having a good memory does not make you clever, it make you quick to learn but NOT quick to understand or see the truth.

Snopes is not a good source, opinionated, self serving and simply biased.

I am not going to pass judgement upon the other site but Jason Colavito has his OPINION and likes to put it there in his way for his intent, never read his book's and to be fair horrod and fiction only really got me when I read sword and sorcery at the age of nine, archaeology on the other hand I believe is a pseudo science, sorry to tell you that but it is a fact it is NOT a proper science, proper science DOES come into it in the form of some analysis but in many cases dating and other chronological study's are open to interpretation and can be wrong, atmospheric isotopes are not constant for example, Carbon 14 loses it's accuracy the older the sample and there ARE ways' the fresh carbon can contaminate an artifact.

Mostly Archaeology is about interpretation, CONSENSUS and those that DO NOT WANT THAT BOAT ROCKED, after all there bursary's and faculty position's are based on there poppycock credentials are they not.

So you will forgive me if I have a laugh at those two site's, they are worse than the one's I put up for you.

Back to the artists again, I am wrong to use them as a target, some of them are and were over the ages true genius, not that guy with his ear on the chair or the idiot with holes in scuptures of fat ladys that look like anything but?, but genius like Da'Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael etc and no musician whom can string together anything like Chopin did is in any way stupid, in fact his work has such perfection only a hidden mathematical genius and artist combined could have created such sublime beauty that calm's and evokes the senses of the listener.

So replace Artists with Traffic wardens (meter maids) for my comparison please.

a reply to: Marduk

The person making the claim that the internal capacity is increased is actually the same guy trying con you into going on his supernatural Inca tour, Brian Foerster

oh no...
he can try and con me all he wants
all I wanted to know was if that Cranial void claim was true

They don't have an increased capacity and as no one has subjected them to any kind of scanning machine, anyone making that claim needs to explain how they measured them

that's exactly what I wanted to find out
thanks
but if no one has scanned them like you say
how do we know either way ?

btw that post was not a good source, about the only thing it got right was the bit about capacity

I didn't have high hopes
on a guitar website

Peruvian and Mexican skulls, the cranial void is significantly larger than in a normal skull

so a definite no one knows ?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Marduk

Woaa there Marduk, LET ME ask you a question, If you and your sources are so irrefutable why they hell are you not working in this field, what are you doing posting on and criticizing on thread's that such an unimpeachable academic would not even touch with a barge pole, does this touch a nerve or something

I hate gullibility in humans, its everything that's wrong with the world, but even more, I hate the people that take advantage of the gullible. They are everything that's wrong with humanity. I plan to spend my retirement hunting down corrupt politicians and pseudo historians

Peruvian and Mexican skulls, the cranial void is significantly larger than in a normal skull

Except that there is no such thing as a cranial void, did you mean vault ?
The size of the Cranial vault has nothing to do with intelligence, you could have a head as big as a beachball and still be as dumb as a box of rocks

a reply to: Marduk

The size of the Cranial vault has nothing to do with intelligence, you could have a head as big as a beachball and still be as dumb as a box of rocks

right so skull binding cannot increase it ?
like the con man claims ?
he must be referring to Cranial vaults your right

no one has measured the cranial vaults then of the skulls
is what I am trying to clarify

originally posted by: kibric
no one has measured the cranial vaults then of the skulls
is what I am trying to clarify

Foerster certainly hasn't
Dr Michel Baylac and DR Martin Friess who are both archaeo-osteologists (study ancient bones) have measured them
This was their conclusion

There is no statistically significant difference in cranial capacity between artificially deformed skulls and normal skulls in Peruvian samples

So guess it depends on who you want to believe, two academic experts who have spent their lives studying ancient bones, or a tour guide with no training in the relevant field, who has been caught out lying numerous times and who makes a profit from gullible people..

The two Drs Published their findings in "The American journal of Physical Anthropology", 14 years ago, which is a peer-reviewed scientific journal and the official journal of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists", so if they printed it, then its real science. Foerster hasn't even named the lab or the scientist involved in his claims.

originally posted by: kibric
found this is an odd place
www.ultimate-guitar.com...

skull binding cannot increase the internal capacity of the cranial void

might be relevant

and evidence points to the fact that in the case of the Peruvian and Mexican skulls, the cranial void is significantly larger than in a normal skull

I'm definitely looking for clarification on this

be nice..

I've looked into this. Yours is not a good source, as it is just someone's post on a message board.
Foerster's claim of increased cranial capacity is misleading. If you find the volume he quoted (and IIRC he only gave one number) it is actually greater than the average cranial capacity by the percentage he gives. But what he doesn't tell you is that even the number he states is within the range of known human cranial capacities.

Unless he publishes some study of the capacities of these skulls (and, of course, he hasn't) this claim can be disregarded, as it is utterly spurious.

I and others posted here about the capacity claim in the past. Click here to find those posts.
You'll find the sources you're looking for in some of those posts/threads.

Harte

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: randyvs
Rewrite the gawd damn totally in error
History books will ya. They're an unpleasant
fiction.

Read_My_Signature /

First time reading. Simple and yet outstanding.

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: randyvs
Rewrite the gawd damn totally in error
History books will ya. They're an unpleasant
fiction.

Read_My_Signature /

First time reading. Simple and yet outstanding.

I can't claim authorship, glad it rings wth you too.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Ghost147
Did I miss why the skulls were elongated?

As far as I've read, it was a practice called head binding. They tightly bound the heads of newborns while their skulls were easily manipulated and soft. This gave them the elongated skulls.

Similar to the neck rings of those with what appear to be elongated necks....it is actually that the rings just pushed the clavicle bones down giving the appearance of a longer neck.

We do the same sort of thing sometimes today--I've seen several babies and toddlers with a type of helmet they have to wear all the time. I asked one parent of such a child what the helmet was for, and was told it was to re-shape his head which had been really deformed during birth. The only difference is that today we're doing it to make their heads rounder instead of longer.

originally posted by: gort51
Ok, Now this is Getting VERY interesting.

I recently watched this documentary, as below, that delves into the mystery that is current and past history of New Zealand.
Now, as has been mentioned previously on ATS, Maori oral history extends approx 1000 years, when the Maori discovered Aotearoa in the Southern Pacific Ocean.
But what their oral history also says, is that there were already people on the Islands.....Fair skinned, red hair green eyed peoples. Their legends also talk about giants with red hair, and small people with fair skin.
Either way, there were humans already on NZ before the Maori..........whom the Maori eventually had wars with and ate...most of them anyway.
Now, descendants of these Red haired people still exist in NZ....they are called the Ngati Hotu, there are still "native" people born with the throw back red hair green eyes gene.
In this documentary, a Ngati Hotu woman, a native NZer, had her DNA tested, and she is of the Haplogroup of Caucasian, specifically from the Persian area...........remember this is a native NZ person.

There is strong evidence of Pre Maori culture of up to 3000 years on NZ, with cultural similarities, language, writing etc to the Easter Isand, AND Peru in South America.

The Polynesians are of direct indigenous Taiwanese lineage and came from the East Asia region.
The Red hair Fair skin Ngati Hotu, are of Indo European Descent and were proposed to have came from the "West", from tribes that sailed to South America, then to Easter Island and other areas in the Pacific. Why? who knows.....

This recent DNA, actually shows that there may be a connection with South America and Europe, that has been denied in recent times.

There is even literature of up to a century ago, of old Maori and NZ tribe oral legends, and one is of the Fair skinned red haired people who had a great war with dark skinned people around the area of ancient India (Persia? Afghanistan?) about 200 generations ago....about 3500 years ago, and left "Europe" and travelled to a great land to the West (South America), and eventually out to the islands...

www.youtube.com...

This new DNA find is Very interesting.....lets see how long "Mainstream" science will take to deny it and call it false.

Which it appears, to be correct.

We are still learning even about our own species. Current theories will come crashing down.

And the Easter Island people also have legends of red- and blond-haired, fair-skinned people. Interesting stuff.