Shall we stop with the assumptions?!

I read ATS from several years, but never raised this question to the UFO ✈ Community here.

I guess it is the time to do so.

Dear ATS UFO researchers, enthusiasts and gingerberries...

Will we, at last start to behave scientifically and STOP associate in behavioral context, the phenomenon of UFO with the Alien/ET mystery.

I understand how sweet is to combine this two topics and how close they relate to each other, but for the sake of reason and proper research, let's do it with dignity and understanding... and behave more carefully with the contribution of this flying-alien porn which became the nature of every second topic around(referring to the sub-forum).

Thank you.

a reply to: Argentbenign

Science and religion don't get along, typically. Both assume a lot. And what science or religion do we apply to 'things' not from here? They violate the known laws of physics. I know, I've seen one do that.

Science will say its delusional, misidentified and hokey (as yet undefined) and religion will say its the devil in disguise.

Theres no middle ground there.

Now, was there a particular case you wished to discuss?

a reply to: Argentbenign

I would suggest you first try to identify why people, including Air force and government members, scientists and many other highly credible people have had to make the assumption that SOME UFO's are alien or extra terrestrial, extra dimension or even spiritual in origin before simply criticizing this assumption of most lay people and a great many experts both in the field and in other profession's including air force and science that they are.

If you want Mufon then may I suggest you join Mufon and then argue with them about why many of there members also believe some UFO are alien or rather extra terrestrial/dimensional in origin or why some in the church and other faith's believe UFO are either or both angelic and demonic in nature.

You know they go right back, Alexander the Great had UFO experiences including two fiery shield's stopping his army from entering India for a time and also different fiery shied's supposedly striking the walls of Tyre with lighting allowing him to conquer that city.

a reply to: Argentbenign

science operates on assumptions.
undsci.berkeley.edu...

we imagine something and then we make it happen...

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Argentbenign

I would suggest you first try to identify why people, including Air force and government members, scientists and many other highly credible people have had to make the assumption that SOME UFO's are alien or extra terrestrial,

Good point. And I will support all folk which bring the issue and context of the military sector within discussing possible Alien origins of UFO. But with the proper material reference!!! However it is happening around is that the abbreviation UFO evokes in the mind of the common "Joe", posting on ATS, the thoughts of undisputable validity of the claim that almost all UFO is reptilo-fishes from the uttermost beyond or insect like bio-robots, controlling the governments of even matter itself.

I say take it easy folks, calm the fantasy or ATS as a team of brainstorming is going to fail in this field. You want this?? I don't.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Argentbenign



Now, was there a particular case you wished to discuss?

Yeah, the thousand of wild claims around. For sake, we had a guy here on ATS who claimed to be from Zeta Rectuli. And people were going . .. Thumbs Up . .. Behind him.... Jesus....

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: Argentbenign

science operates on assumptions.
undsci.berkeley.edu...

we imagine something and then we make it happen...

can't say no to you, sir

a reply to: Argentbenign

All flesh is sacred,

it is all the same thing, just different perspectives.

So, what do you propose we do? Just automatically ASSUME that they're military or misidentified planets? No matter what you do with the UFO phenomena, you're ASSUMING. Why? Because truth is, we don't KNOW... I don't get your post, frankly.

a reply to: SpeakerofTruth A plain and objective research without premature statements, done on the base of evaluation of all possible factors influencing the phenomena is necessary, even before trying to compile it in single hypothesis for the sake of presentation and further research.

a reply to: Argentbenign

S+F

my 2 cents on this subject...

1 Definitions

What's an alien ?
What's an ufo ?
Make a thread with all definitions regarding the subjects , use it as reference. discuss only within those definition.

Instead of saying duh an alien... say duh an alien according to definition in (link) .

2 Proof.

Start to define what proof is (Skeptics welcome) and what the protocol is to submit possible proof .

3 Theories and numbers.

Put all possible theories in a database. And discuss within the context of that database. I mean a alien means something else within a context that involves djinn than when it involves the more tangible aliens like the nordic ones. Stay in context based on definitions from the database so that every definition is clear.

a reply to: Argentbenign

The problem is and always has been that official science has, due to government wishes and effort on the matter, want no part of the UFO controversy settled in any manner. That may seem a strange thing to say "...settled in any manner," but that is the exact situation.

UFOs are real somethings abductions by UFOs are real somethings. Anyone that knows of either experience directly, absolutely knows despite the denials by science, government and other individuals that UFOs give every evidence of being exactly what they seem to be, alien craft with maybe a long history with humanity.

Given a mind that can approach that possibility without spewing coffee out of the nostrils, then a real reason can come to mind why science and government has tactfully avoid the issue for over a half century. If real UFOs, denial is the only recourse as no genuine scientific work can be done to honestly disprove UFOs. Second, and most importantly, given that UFOs are signs of ETs, then the public must be allowed to mull over the public possibilities of the phenomena being real because the government knows that they definitely are real and the better the public is prepared for the solid news of that fact, the easier they can absorb it without running too long in the streets screaming that "the sky is falling."

Seriously, there is no way people such as myself and other individuals will or can put together a scientific outfit to prove or disprove UFOs. That job is directly one for the scientific community and government to do and they have not and will not do it until they find their own evidence of life out there somewhere else rather than acknowledging a single alien UFO in our atmosphere. First things second, I suppose. After all, would science and government want the proverbial egg on their face?

originally posted by: Argentbenign

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Argentbenign



Now, was there a particular case you wished to discuss?

Yeah, the thousand of wild claims around. For sake, we had a guy here on ATS who claimed to be from Zeta Rectuli. And people were going . .. Thumbs Up . .. Behind him.... Jesus....

Lol, I get it. Thats different though, peoples claims about that are dime a dozen. I meant cases as in reported events. For instance, Chicago Ohare, Phoenix lights, Rendelsham forest, but a few.

Or debunk this...

a reply to: Argentbenign

You can chase your tail all day all you'll do is get tired.

Some claim to know, many have experienced. Fact is we've never gotten anywhere trying to tackle the subject from any angle.

It's frustrating...

But I hear your plight.

Ultimately I feel I agree with you, the best we can do is document and investigate without assumption. It's easy to assume when one has experienced. Problem is many get into this field due to experience, I'm one of those people.

In terms of advice I'd say keep your wit's about you, try to be unassuming and if you ever investigate be kind and compassionate to witnesses.

The last thing they need is ridicule, that being said some are overly forthcoming with information... Be weary of those chap's. Some use ufology as a platform for their 5 minutes and/or to sell a book/story.

I'm all for science. It's worked pretty good for humanity so far.

Unfortunately, as smart as people are, there's no telling how smart a person or thing can ultimately be, which means that as much as we've been able to define and discover, there is likely a whole spectrum of possible intelligence that we just haven't gotten to yet, and may never get to simply because of the natural limitations of our brains and bodies as we currently define reality.

We're smart, but not as smart as it may be possible to be. And that is the gap in which "real" UFOs reside -- assuming that things exist even though they are incomprehensible to us. That's a philosophical question.

The problem is both Religion and Science are true and interact with each other.

Its impossible to get the scientists to agree because it opens a huge can of spiritual worms and they will be held accountable for all sins they have committed.

When science creates the Mark of the Beast (RFID) and people ask for it to be implanted in their left hand, watch the ignorant scientists stand in amazement as for some unknown reason, the device only functions in a persons right hand.

They will ask the dreaded question 'how did the Bible state that the Mark only works in the right hand and the forehead via their nanites'.

a reply to: Argentbenign

First of all religion came about because man didn't understand things around him hence sun,moon,rain or thunder gods etc MAN created god it looks 100% obvious to me.

Now considering that about 95% of ufo believers will claim that any dot of light in a picture/video at night posted on youtube etc is Mog from Zog or any dark dot on a picture/video in daytime is the same that is a big assumption.

It's really strange that today when the vast majority of people on the planet have a camera in their pocket the evidence regarding ufo encounters has got worse. Think of the many CLAIMED ufo encounters of craft supposed to be on the ground in the past when no cameras were available now when people have camera phones we have NOTHING.

Then of course the professional hoaxers on youtube and look how many members on here fall for the BS they post.

We get videos on youtube with all sorts of claims for example shape changing ufo's when it's just consumer grade cameras that have problems with autofocus at night. We have videos with birds or insects crossing the frame of a video in fractions of a second that become hypersonic ufo's to some, although they can never explain how they calculated the distance to the object or how far it traveled the usual reply is to them it looked in the distance.

Or we get the post with an object with the OP telling everyone it's not an insect,bird,drone or plane etc because they say so

We also have the youtubers that seem to be very fortunate that every other day or night they seem to encounter ufo's to post on their channels yet we have members on here all round the globe that spend many hours out in the middle of nowhere spending many man-hours taking pictures ( Astrorophotography Thread ) that NEVER see anything or it as simple as we know the sky well and understand the equipment we use and what we are looking at.

Overall things have got dull in the ufo forum, I joined here because I was told I would see real good evidence have I seen it NOT yet but fingers crossed someday.

I feel as if we should try our best to fill in the missing links between what a UFO is in the sky and how that could be attributed to the presence of an extra-terrestrial being. There are many attempts by certain entities to derail investigation into such matters through the planting of false sightings and indoctrination of nuts to convince people that all sightings are fake. Skeptics should be met with open arms as they increase the validity of the ideas bounced around in a community, but they should be open-minded and receptive to evidence without any pre-conceived notions about the existence or non-existence of beings and objects.

You could put religion in the same category as UFO's with proof, its all belief and hearsay, no evidence. But at least with UFO's we have High ranking military officials as far back as WWII showing radar tracked objects or photography travelling faster than 5,000 MPH, or changing direction at incredible speed, when the fastest aircraft of the day had not got close to the sound barrier. So it had to be someone or something not of this world? Took many decades later to get a rocket to go that fast without the directional changes.

a reply to: myss427

Guess what you can get false readings from the best of technology. A few years ago my sat nav had my car crossing fields at more hhan the speed of sound with almost right angle turns so was I a ufo for a few minutes.