Mystery of the Lost 35 Foot Granite Disc-Cutter Used in Ancient Egypt

a reply to: rickymouse

They still cut granite that way in central Texas. Thick cables hundreds of feet long are continually pulled across the rock by a stationary machine to product large blocks and thick slabs that will later be reduced to kitchen countertop thickness. It seems crude, but the system works fine.

a reply to: pavil

I saw video from archeo park. Dude did 2cm in diameter through 4cm stone (hard stone). Result was working splitting axe. Work was done with primitive wooden hand drill tipped with bronze crown. Sand and water was used as abrasive. It took him exactly 4 hours.

The most likely place to find such tool is, perhaps, the rubble around the Meidum pyramid - if it did collapse as it appears to have done, a lot of stuff was buried around the perimeter of the structure. Saws, maybe?

a reply to: jeep3r

You've been presented with a block of granite and someone says "circular saw"

* where, exactly, at Abu Rawash was this found and in what context?
-- was it just sitting in the middle of somewhere?
-- was it attached to something?
-- buried under something?

Abu Rawash and other sites were constantly used as "hey! free stones for building!" by the Egyptians for the past 5,000 years (they stripped some of the pyramids and even took down temples to build new temples with them.
* how do you know that this was cut in the time of Djedfre and not afterward?

And finally, because we do respect our members' skills
* how did you learn about stonework and what cut marks look like? I'll admit that I don't know anything about them - I've seen what saws do to wood but I'm not very clued about stone.
* do you have a good reference from a stoneworking site about what stonemason drill marks look like historically? That's one thing that's been lacking in most of our discussions: nobody's got a good site that shows what drill marks look in stone when made by the Romans (who came after the Egyptians) or the castle builders of Europe and so forth. It'd be nice to actually see some photos.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
The most likely place to find such tool is, perhaps, the rubble around the Meidum pyramid - if it did collapse as it appears to have done, a lot of stuff was buried around the perimeter of the structure. Saws, maybe?

Medium pyramid collapsed halfway through and was never finished.

originally posted by: Aeshma
a reply to: jeep3r

Why would having saws mean you invented the wheel?

Do you think the egyptians didnt have wheels? They spun cloth, they had chariots.....wheels were not uncommon to them...

They didn't have chariots until the time of Tutankamun (1500 BC or so) - no horses in Egypt before then and the roads were awfully unstable. Ramesses II was the first to have an army with charioteers and they were only useful in the Mesopotamian area (Battle of Kadesh.)

The big pyramids were built a thousand years before Tutankhamen.

The spinning wheel was invented in India after 1000 BC but before 500 BC; two thousand years after the pyramids.

They did place pottery clay on wheels that they turned by hand. They did not develop the kick wheel (the constant motion potters wheel until the time of the Ptolemys - around 400 BC or later... 2,000 years after the age of the big pyramids.

Such a thing could have been cut with a water wheel, the water also useful for removing any grains while being cut smooth making it a win-win situation for use, of course that diameter makes sense for such as well, the block would just have to be lowered or raised as the wheel and a tool(s) embedded went round and round planing the surface smooth.

Of course animals could have been used as well with a weighted cutting stone and as they walked round and round the tether would give the circular cut or polish as debris was splashed off over and over. Of course the closer they could fracture a slab into being smooth with wedges to begin with the less work it would require to polish it flat with either a water wheel or animals walking circles dragging a cutter/polisher to accomplish the job.

I mean without a TV and other distractions people can get a lot accomplished and be very very recourceful when all they really have is time and need something to do with it... so why not cut huge stones to pay hommage to something they saw as greater than themselves? We kinda still do the same thing in many ways as "civilization" goes.

a reply to: Byrd

Is there any indication of how site layout (measurement) was accomplished?

"What's a cubit?" Say what you will about Cosby, that's a funny bit.

a reply to: jeep3r

I really believe the Pyramids were built with conventional methods as there is nothing a human mind can achieve with time and the required brain power. Still, very very amazing. It reminds of an Italian guy who built the exact model of an old Ferrari at home which took more than 15 years himself.

I don't know how anyone can look at the plethora of evidence out there and not believe 100% that Egypt had more advanced technologies than we are led to believe.

This thread is great. It shows, without a doubt that they used mechanical advantage, (in particular, a circular saw) to acheive their amazing stonework.

I have zero doubt.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
The most likely place to find such tool is, perhaps, the rubble around the Meidum pyramid - if it did collapse as it appears to have done, a lot of stuff was buried around the perimeter of the structure. Saws, maybe?

Medium pyramid collapsed halfway through and was never finished.

Exactly! It collapsed halfway through, and the rubble covered up men and equipment.

a reply to: blend57

Holy bageezus....those videos blew my mind.....!!!!

bazingaaaa

In this episode of "Ancient Impossible-Power Tools"

www.dailymotion.com...

They explain the use of a water wheel with saw blades..

You all should watch it ...

Problem solved..
skip ahead to the 30 minute mark..

originally posted by: rickymouse
Also they were using wires to cut rock thousands of years ago, I heard that from my Mason, and there is evidence of wire cutting of rocks too. Two guys on opposite sides pulling on an abrasive wire of some kind long ago in Italy. That leaves a straight cut though.

I was thinking that possibly a wire or rope cutter (rope infused with granite sand) could have done it, and I can see where it might create a kind of "curved" cut as it's pulled through.

originally posted by: jeep3r
seems to have been created using a disc-shaped tool with a diameter of 30-40 foot.

I wonder. From what material would this disk be made then ?

For the that size speculated...it would need to cut plenty of.granite slabs...before.it would wear out. I doubt you could afford replacing it every now and.then. at that size...it would be a time consuming effort no doubt.

And then we have to speculate on the material...which can endure a H2H with hard granite...cut it all the way through....and still be usable after that.

Its a strange case no doubt...and my money is on...none of the above

Good reminder thread Jeep

images.search.yahoo.com...=0&iurl=http%3A%2F%2F i40.tinypic.com%2F30szg1z.jpg&action=click

It could have been something like this, made of bronze with crystals embedded in it.

first image.


Or, you could just watch this movie. www.youtube.com...

The alien gods did not leave their equipment lying around, they took it with them.

a reply to: jeep3r

www.youtube.com...

The above is a great documentary everyone should take the time to watch.
It also mentions that the local authorities try to keep people from taking photos of the cuts on the rocks around the pyramids.

originally posted by: strongfp
You toss a bunch of rough rocks into a tumbler, add some sand, and water and they will come out smooth.
All you need is a bunch of rocks, time, some sand, water, a little elbow grease and you can easily get a fine finish. The curve in the piece can be easily explained by that.
Sometimes the easiest explanation is the most plausible.

Essentially that's correct but the hardness of the stones being tumbled needs to be considered. Regular sand won't have any abrasive effect on stones harder than MOH's 7. Emery would be a likely abrasive candidate (corundite), consisting mainly of Corundum (MOH's 9).

a reply to: jeep3r

Amazing s+f we were so advanced at one point and then what happened that made us lose that technology