Why do you hate the poor?

a reply to: ketsuko

More like at some point we have to declare people fit to care for themselves and like it or not that means there is a minimum competency level for that expectation just like there is a set age of majority.

Maybe you should spearhead that whole thing. You know, determining when people are fit to care for themselves. Then let the chips fall where they may and watch our country degrade even further into haves and have-nots and an American version of untouchables. Not like that doesn't exist already

Sounds like something that might require a bigger government though - and then still not work out quite right

Or, maybe we could find ways to spend money on poverty and education that don't involve any hypocritical moralizing and playing keep away with the funds. Then we could watch things fix themselves

Money - either way

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: TrueBrit

I think ascribing accomplishment economically to luck demotes humans to passengers in the vehicle of their own life.


Sure, the benefit of luck helps. The benefit of opportunity helps, too. Assuming you are in an environment beyond inner city ghetto's, you will hve ample amounts of both. But you still have to drive up the street to take advantage of it.

If that were the case, why has productivity continued to increase while income has stagnated?

Well, income outside the top 1% or so, anyway.

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: TrueBrit

I think ascribing accomplishment economically to luck demotes humans to passengers in the vehicle of their own life.


Sure, the benefit of luck helps. The benefit of opportunity helps, too. Assuming you are in an environment beyond inner city ghetto's, you will hve ample amounts of both. But you still have to drive up the street to take advantage of it.

If that were the case, why has productivity continued to increase while income has stagnated?

Well, income outside the top 1% or so, anyway.

The short answer: ISO 9000 and automation.

Standardized processes makes things more efficient always. And automation removes the human element. Basically, we've gotten a lot better at manufacturing, and decided to retire to let the robots do it.

Income has stagnated because we now share our economy with China and India. Same pie, more pieces.

a reply to: wantsome

I don't hate the poor- I am the working poor. What I hate is watching people who are younger, better educated and in much better physical health than I walk into my place of work getting 2 shopping carts full of nothing but junk food and sodas with food stamps, wearing the latest fashions, chatting while shopping on their new iPhones and then loading their purchases into brand new luxury cars while I slave for $11 an hour with county, state and federal taxes coming out of my check that pay for some of their luxuries and go home in pain every single day to the bare essentials. Our tax dollars are giving those who play the system the life of Riley and yes- I resent it greatly!

I see the same old silly posts time and time again about the type of poor people they "see". Buying junk food while driving expensive cars.

But there has been study after study disproving this myth. The majority are honest people who are usually disabled or are children. The "rich welfare mom" might be one in a hundred but it seems like more because a few stories keep getting repeated and repeated.

You probably don't know how common hunger is with the working poor because they don't share that info with you. After all, they know it's a social stigma.

As for the people who are so quick to say work hard and get a job - let me ask you this question. Have you ever asked one of your friends or relatives for a job for you or a family member?

I bet most of you have.

The official name is "networking" and it's the most recommended way to land a good job. I call it the old boys network and it's a very real problem the poor have to contend with. I think I read about 75% of jobs are landed by connections.


It's tough to work your way into a decent paying job when you are competing with someone less competent but will be hired anyway because they know a person.

Please don't tell me it's about personality because that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I've seen many people put in positions that were incompetent tyrants but they knew someone so nothing happened.

originally posted by: Daughter2
As for the people who are so quick to say work hard and get a job - let me ask you this question. Have you ever asked one of your friends or relatives for a job for you or a family member?

I bet most of you have.

The official name is "networking" and it's the most recommended way to land a good job. I call it the old boys network and it's a very real problem the poor have to contend with. I think I read about 75% of jobs are landed by connections.


It's tough to work your way into a decent paying job when you are competing with someone less competent but will be hired anyway because they know a person.

Please don't tell me it's about personality because that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I've seen many people put in positions that were incompetent tyrants but they knew someone so nothing happened.

Remember folks. It's not what you know, but who you know. My gramma told me this wisdom before

a reply to: wantsome

Why do you hate the poor?

Because most people have been trained up to hate welfare for individuals. Mind you, because the man or lady on the TV has never told them about corporate welfare therefore they dont know about corproate welfare because if they did then they might hate that too.

Of Course, this just proves that both factions of govt believe in and are committed to corporate welfare but they focus peoples attention only on welfare for individuals because every dollar spent on individuals is a doller that cannot be spent on corporate Americia and 50 cents of whichh cannot be dontated back to the politicians.

What the trainers never tell those who hate welfare for individuals and those who claim it is, that the economic stimulas packages which goverment inject into the local economy all over the US, is that without that monthly economic stimulis package most small busieness would close up tomorrow including most shopping centres, large and small.

The extent of hate towards those who claim the dole, is a measure of how effective that remotely programed and operated weapon of mass deception and social conditioning is.

It must be very galling for dole haters to learn there is nothing to stop the goverment from creating all the money they need for their own purpsoes, using the exact same method the banks use, which would mean that nobody would need to pay any more than a token rate of tax to administer the system. Gee they must get very angry indeed when they learn that.

What a lot of people forget is that if poor people didn't get welfare support all the wealthy people wouldn't be anywhere near as rich as they are.

Poor people tend to spend every penny of their income back into the system. Their welfare cash ends up in the pockets of the rich as it is spent. Housing benefits go direct to rich landlords. The $£billions of 'free money' paid to poor people is spent regularly and keeps the wheels of the finance truck rolling.

Wealthy don't/won't spend, they hoard/hide it.

So yes take away welfare and see how that ends up for the economy.

The rich hate poor people because their existence and wealth depends on them. A parasite cannot exist without a host to leech from.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: wantsome

I don't hate the poor- I am the working poor. What I hate is watching people who are younger, better educated and in much better physical health than I walk into my place of work getting 2 shopping carts full of nothing but junk food and sodas with food stamps, wearing the latest fashions, chatting while shopping on their new iPhones and then loading their purchases into brand new luxury cars

This post is everything that is wrong with America. People ruthlessly judging other people. It's pure insanity. You have no idea what someone else's situation could be.

For example, using your hypothetical, "better educated" most likely. "better physical health" maybe you need to start working out. "2 shopping carts full of junk food and sodas" who in the Hell do you think you are that qualifies you to judge someone else's choice? Do you think you are God almighty himself? Google the word "humility" and meditate on it. Maybe the junk food and sodas were for a birthday party for a bunch of kids. "With food stamps" maybe the person was being Christian like buying food for someone who is on food stamps. Again, who are you to judge? "Wearing the latest fashions" assuming your criticism here is because they are buying with food stamps. Again, maybe the person is using the food stamps to buy food for someone else. " chatting while shopping on their new iPhones" is just hatred. Maybe they inherited the luxury car from a rich uncle who passed away. You don't know their situation. Maybe they borrowed the car.

Anytime you have this strong of a negative emotion about anything it's a window into your own soul. You only criticize and hate in other people what you do not like about your own character. When we look at the world whether we see "good" or "bad" is a choice. Most people have no self-awareness about their choices. Your emotions color how you experience what is happening around you. If you are in a good mood songs on the radio just sound better. We are in full control of how we experience the Universe. People only take away from you what you let them take. The more interesting question in all of this is why are you letting other people drive you into hatred? Stop doing that!

I am poor and should not have to pay for other poor people. No one hates the poor we just hate getting robbed through taxation.

a reply to: omvishnu

Fact is through the rich exist and continue to prosper at the expense of everyone else.

They should be the main contenders that help pay for our poor thought appropriate taxation.

Thing is they are the bastards that get the tax breaks and utilize loop holes to avoid payment while the average Man pays through the nose.

The sheer lack of logic escapes me as its rather impossible to get blood out a stone.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: wantsome

I don't hate the poor- I am the working poor. What I hate is watching people who are younger, better educated and in much better physical health than I walk into my place of work getting 2 shopping carts full of nothing but junk food and sodas with food stamps, wearing the latest fashions, chatting while shopping on their new iPhones and then loading their purchases into brand new luxury cars

This post is everything that is wrong with America. People ruthlessly judging other people. It's pure insanity. You have no idea what someone else's situation could be.

For example, using your hypothetical, "better educated" most likely. "better physical health" maybe you need to start working out. "2 shopping carts full of junk food and sodas" who in the Hell do you think you are that qualifies you to judge someone else's choice? Do you think you are God almighty himself? Google the word "humility" and meditate on it. Maybe the junk food and sodas were for a birthday party for a bunch of kids. "With food stamps" maybe the person was being Christian like buying food for someone who is on food stamps. Again, who are you to judge? "Wearing the latest fashions" assuming your criticism here is because they are buying with food stamps. Again, maybe the person is using the food stamps to buy food for someone else. " chatting while shopping on their new iPhones" is just hatred. Maybe they inherited the luxury car from a rich uncle who passed away. You don't know their situation. Maybe they borrowed the car.

Anytime you have this strong of a negative emotion about anything it's a window into your own soul. You only criticize and hate in other people what you do not like about your own character. When we look at the world whether we see "good" or "bad" is a choice. Most people have no self-awareness about their choices. Your emotions color how you experience what is happening around you. If you are in a good mood songs on the radio just sound better. We are in full control of how we experience the Universe. People only take away from you what you let them take. The more interesting question in all of this is why are you letting other people drive you into hatred? Stop doing that!

Maybe YOU are the one who shouldn't be so judgemental amigo! When you've been working at the same place for a long time you see the same customers week after week, month after month. You even know the exact days they will be coming in (the 1st and the 15th of the month).You hear their conversations whether you want to or not. You see them doing the same time and time again and bragging about it- and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You are privy to their calls while shopping bragging about selling the packs of T-bone steaks they just picked up to buy with their food stamp card for money to go to the club. You get to hear about how they won't get caught because their new car is registered in someone else's name. You get to hear how they're going to hit the store down the street on the way home because they can get beer with their food stamp card there. This isn't just a rare few people- this is many, many people!

You get to hear (like it or not) how they go to several different doctors using their Medicaid cards to get pills to party on and sell. You get to listen to them converse with their dealers who are having them buy an exact list of goods in exchange for drugs as well, and how much they're going to get in return for those goods. You are stuck hearing a lot more than you would ever want to know about people since the majority of them are either on speaker or blutooth- and to them the employees do not exist unless they can't find something or want to complain, so they don't even bother to try to speak softly.

I used to feel much as you- USED TO being the operative words- until I found myself in a position of knowing more than I ever wanted to know. And YOU, well you can judge me all you like seeing as how you find it all Godlike and such. Maybe until you have witnessed what I and the 150+ people that work at my place of employment (and yes, they all witness the same as I) you should step down off of that high throne of your own before you choke on all of that smugness you're harboring!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: omvishnu

Fact is through the rich exist and continue to prosper at the expense of everyone else.

They should be the main contenders that help pay for our poor thought appropriate taxation.

That is called theft. Plain and simple. You are taking away soemthing from someone to provide for someone else.

Why not instead of setting up a Robin Hood system and stealing hard earned money from people, you help create a system where you don't have to steal from the wealthy to make you feel better about the poor? I know it'll be difficult....if you reward people based on their actual effort and skill you end up with something that still creates poor people. Because no matter how much you help, there will still be some who are lazy or stupid.

Thing is they are the bastards that get the tax breaks and utilize loop holes to avoid payment while the average Man pays through the nose.

The sheer lack of logic escapes me as its rather impossible to get blood out a stone.

If you don't like loopholes, then we should close them. But keep in mind: the poorest in the US pay no taxes, as their credits actually pay them more than their taxes paid in. So the people paying the least are th epoorest, and the people paying th emost are the wealthy. Poor people pay so little that tax season is a payday for them.

The lack of logic is in the argument you present. Because the facts do not support your assertions. I've been poor. I've been paid $2500/year in credits for each kid. And i made off like a bandit, especially as a % of my annual income.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't steal from the wealthy, i pay my taxes just like everyone else.

Kind of unavoidable here in the UK unless you are self employed or able to employ an accountant to be creative on your behalf, in which case you are certainly not poor.

Difference being that i don't get to sit down and negotiate the monies owed like rather a few big named corporations do.

If i refuse to pay then the tax man arrests my wages, simple as that.

Bit of a different story for big companies, corporations, there CEOs and there banker pals.

Just wait till Trump unleashes Brexit +++ on your poor nation.

God help America.

a reply to: andy06shake

In the US money is shoveled back tot he poor in the annual "trickle up economics" orgy known as Income Tax Returns.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

OK, no one is fit to care for themselves, not even people like Bill Gates or Beyonce or Angela Merkel ...

That's my point. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you look at a person and say that person is fit and competent to direct his or her own life and thus care for themself, provide for themself?

At the other end, there are those people we can all look at and agree they need help or may always need help, may not ever be fit or competent to direct their own lives and thus cannot care for themselves.

You want to turn this into a question of hard-heartedness and bloody-mindedness, but at the same time, I [i[know you champion public health care systems which necessarily make those kinds of decision all the time when it comes to what kinds of care they provide to which people on which ends of the their lives.

a reply to: Azureblue

You know money can't just be printed en masse and distributed carelessly, right? Inflation?

The USA can get away with it better than other countries due to the dollar being tied to petrol, but what you are suggesting, printing money to solve all problems is a recipe for economic disaster.

a reply to: ketsuko

And that might be the most insidious part: do you draw the line and risk trampling the rights of someone desiring to be under their own control?

My grandmother used to bring home "strays" she "rescued". She hated me pointing out that she had actually kidnapped an otherwise free animal. While you can debate how free a stray dog is, the point is that well intentioned people screw over those they are trying to help fairly frequently.

And few things are more degrading than having your keys taken away from you by your kids.

originally posted by: KTemplar
a reply to: solargeddon


I'm sorry, but how can other people be responsible for someone else having 6 kids? Or crushing their spirit because someone made them late for school?

I once got caught in a closing train door on my way to a job interview and I had a white suit on, and a big black grease mark on the back of my outfit. I got the job. I wanted to not go to the interview after that, but thought, no I did not go through that to just give up!

Maybe we should discuss "hard luck" mentality, instead of poverty. If a person with "hard luck" mentality had a million bucks today, they would be poor within a year. They'd be blaming the system and their bad upbringing because they would say their parents didn't condition them emotionally to save money. Or something like that.

A person with your more positive mentality who has a reasonable amount of talent, but doesn't have any money, would probably go out and make some money.

"Hard Luck" mentality claims entitlement to income on the basis that the person with the hard luck has less than whoever gives them a donation (or they steal from) and therefore deserves help. As such, they would lose their sense of emotional security if they ever got enough money not to be able to beg anymore. Sometimes an individual like that who comes from a rich family will develop a gambling habit, and demand assistance paying off bookies.


"Hard luck" people complicate the poverty narrative. No amount of public funding can do anything for them.

However there are also some people who aren't "hard luck" but still can't get out of poverty. Either they made mistakes in the past (like having children at the wrong time), or they simply aren't very scholastically talented (my best attempt to put it politely. :-) )