Get them out!!

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: AboveBoard

why do we have to be the ones to tell russia no?

why not the EU, or the UK, or China... why does America STILL have to play world police?

Because we have the biggest stick. Simple as that. We partner with NATO to keep peace in the world. We have power to do that. If the USA steps out of the game, war that ends up on our front door is the sure result.

if our nato allies held up their end of the funding we would not have to be the worlds police, right now I think the only people meeting the required defense spending are some of the smallest members.

we have been at war for coming up on 20 years... we need a break, let someone else carry the load and we can just do support.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: mOjOm

Whilst you Americans all watch for Trumps next tweet military men and material are headed all over the place the Generals are in control Trump is just their circus clown,your headed for a war- a big one

All the mre reason to try and stop this Administration now then.

Does a 3rd world war sound like a good idea to you??

So a palace coup?

Or something more Kennedy-ish?

I am thinking they want something more along the lines of straight up Revolution. If they leave the actual system in place, then we the people might have the chance to make the "wrong" choice again. They can't allow that you know.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Irishhaf

I never called for a revolution.

I never once said to act outside the law in doing anything.

Maybe you try reading what I say instead of making stuff up.

Sitting back and doing nothing is going to result in the destruction of the Republic and every institution in it. It's been 2 months out of 4 years. He's ruling entirely by executive order. He's highest positions are all caught lying, some under oath. He's getting his intel from Fox News and Breitbart and fighting against his own intel agencies. He's putting people in charge of institution who are only there to destroy those same institutions. He has f*cking Exxon ceo as his head of state with obvious ties to Russia and their oil industry. He's creating enemies with our boarder nation. I mean how much more do you need to see what he's doing???? I don't get how you can not see it???

So how do you plan to get down the list legally?

it took what 2 years to get clinton sort of impeached...

and you want to continue down the list past the president and Vice... never going to happen... democrats will not set that precedent because they know they will have it played on them next time around.

So again, what exactly do you want to have happen?

eta: either way I am out for the night... time for sleep.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Russia? Oh sure they want it, but China is a more immediate challenge for it and threatening Russia for vast parts of Siberia.

Is it really in Russia's best interests right now to crush the US with China threatening both of us? Sure, you could say the play is to push China toward victimizing a weakened US, but there is the problem of China's real lack of sea power to contend with. It makes more sense for China to turn its eyes west than it does to look east over the Pacific.

When Japan tried it in WWII, they at least had a fleet built up to do the job, but even they were unequal to the necessary force projections to really threaten us over land.

China is way behind that curve even though they have the force on land. They're looking nearer at home. Russia is a more likely land rival, Russia and India, and both of them know it.

So while Russia is not our friend, we have a rival in common there and that could be leveraged.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I don't know what to do.

At this point I'm just trying to get people to at least see what's going on first.

I'm also aware of other legal avenues of changing things. There are many of them that I do support. But being that I'm neither a Dem or Rep they are still limited in what they can do.

But it still has to start with getting people to open their eyes and see it for what it is. Just look at the people on this thread. This is one website and not all that significant and yet there are people everywhere pushing that same Troll BS. Enough to get a a Trump elected with Bannon as his Right hand man. It's completely corrupted the Conservative party, hijack Evangelical Religious Members, White Power Groups, etc. I mean do you not see the urgency of getting something done??

I support your ideas, I really do. But you have to get the giant cancer leading it all to a minimum before anything you're doing will even matter. Now that is how I see it. Because our system is problematic. It has a non functioning element to it. That's democracy for ya. But that is also what is being compromised now and from within and that is it's weak point that very well may kill it once and for all.

Just look at the people here now. They don't know what to believe. They are convinced that American Democracy has failed and destruction of the system is all that is left. Not a fix, but it's downfall. Media is fake news but youtube conspiracy is true. Alex Jones is trusted for god sake. Have you watched Alex Jones??? Roger Stone, Alex Jones, Manafort....I mean it's all one giant propaganda campaign and psyop meant to weaken everything American. Because that is all you need for it to fail. Just get everyone to question it and not know what to do. Then you can install whatever you want at that point and it's too late to figure it out then.

I admit I'm kinda rambling now. But for anyone who's paying attention they should see the connections being made here.

originally posted by: AppreIron

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: SBMcG

Just listen to you sell out's. Cowards and cucks is all I hear out you people.

"Just tear down the whole thing."
"Whaaa....The leftists are making me not like myself."

Grow some balls or just move to Russia or China or some authoritarian country already then FFS.

Stop being a cancer on your own homeland and either grow some f*cking balls or leave already.

You've got to understand that just because you have citizenship does not make you an American. What the democrats represent is trash; abortionists, wealth redistribution, gays lesbian and trannies, globalism, abortion, etc. That is unAmericam garbage. I can't speak for everyone but I would take the sides of a good hard working Russian all day every day before I take the side of some fruitcake liberal just because his birth certificate says he's American. And if anyone does any moving it will you liberals as we have the all means of power and are your superiors in every way.

Ugh...disgusting post. You should understand that no person born of free will and under the flag of humanity has "got" to do anything other than survive. American citizens are that by lineage of American parents who gave birth to that child on American soil. In fact American is an ipso facto ethnicity all on it's own. What the politicians represent is an oligarchy. Abortions = necessary as a function of society to prevent unwanted/abandoned children running amok with no purpose or direction within society; freakonomics. Gays, lesbians and "trannies" (derogatory ASF) are human beings just the same as your bigoted @$$. Speaking of garbage we as Americans put out more garbage than any other country including China...we put out more garbage than China!!! So you would side with Russians over your own American brethren? Well good for you comrade! That last sentence says to me that you've been drinking, so please take your time before responding so that I don't got to destroy everything that comes out of your fingers again. Good day sir or madam whichever it may be.

a reply to: mOjOm

Anything that happens could be blamed on Hillary.

Bernie Sanders polled much better than Hillary against Trump.

If she hadn't cheated him out of the nomination, we would be talking about President Sanders right now.
I really believe that.

a reply to: butcherguy

So blame Hillary then.

Blame whomever you want.

Just root out the cancer. Personally I'd include Hillary right along with Trump Cancer. But Hillary isn't in power so she's at least 2nd on the priority list as far as I can tell.

I also agree, without Hillary we'd be saying President Sanders right now most likely. But that's happening in some other parallel universe other than here so I don't see the point in even bringing it up anymore. It's gone. Done. Not gonna happen again either. Also, I do blame Hillary for that as well. At least in part. IMO he needs to get away from the Dems too if he plans on having any credibility left.

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

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Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

while the folks in Washington are busy dragging skeletons out of each others closets and trying to get each other impeached, is their anyone actually steering the ship now?

a reply to: Tardacus

As usual, it's the people, the citizens, the ignored, the uneducated, the unenlightened.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: mOjOm

Anything that happens could be blamed on Hillary.

Bernie Sanders polled much better than Hillary against Trump.

If she hadn't cheated him out of the nomination, we would be talking about President Sanders right now.
I really believe that.

Of course, it's impossible to say what the outcome of a Sanders v. Trump election would have been, but my guess, based upon the political environment this time around, is that Trump would have won anyway.

Here's why...

Obama took a sledgehammer to the Democrat Party over the last 6 years. No president in US history lost more down-ballot seats than he. Governorships, state legislatures, the house and Senate of course -- all victims of the Obama presidency.

Sanders would have had to run to the left of Obama -- something that would have alienated all but the most die-hard leftists, socialists, and communists in this country. While Obama campaigned vigorously for Bill Clinton's wife, which probably did help her with the base, he would have been far less enthused about doing so for a candidate infinitely more critical of him that she was.

America has always been a right-of-center country. Those who identify as "liberal" are the smallest segment of the electorate, those who identify as "conservative" outnumber them by 150%. Barack Obama was the most liberal presidential candidate is US history. Sanders would have been even further to the left. Not all Democrat voters are "liberal" of course, but many of them would have been turned off by Bernie's socialist leanings. And as we saw, Trump got a large segment of blue collar Dem's in the end.

Obama was a failure. Because of the massively-unpopular Obamacare, he lost the House in 2010. He barely hung on the the White House in 2012 and only did so by razor-thin margins in OH and FL. If the millions of Evangelicals who refused to vote for a Mormon had voted, Obama would have lost in a landslide. In 2014 Obama lost the Senate. Along the way he lost a dozen governorships and state legislatures -- crucial in winning national elections.

Obama's economic policies didn't work. 95 million eligible workers left the workforce in the 8 years of his presidency. He kept claiming the recovery was vibrant, but the vast majority of Americans felt the country was "on the wrong track" in poll after poll.

Sanders did not have the support of the Democrat Establishment behind him. It's hard to know how much support he would have gotten from the national Dem' elites. Trump battled the RNC at first as well, but in his case, that made him even more popular. The same thing might have happened with Bernie, but who knows.

The electoral demographics for Trump were far more advantageous than the final results appeared. When Trump beat Bill Clinton's wife by 1.3 million votes with California factored out, it is almost mathematically impossible for a leftist to win the Electoral College.

Both Trump and Sanders had a passionate movement behind them, but Trump's was far bigger. I seriously doubt that large segment of "Blue Dog" Dem's who voted for Bill Clinton's wife would have voted for Bernie. A good number of them voted for Trump, of course.

Bernie would not have been burdened with the massive amount of negative baggage attached to Bill Clinton's wife. That would have taken away many Trump talking points. Score that one for Bernie.

But the primary reason Bernie would have very likely lost is that he would not have received the women's vote that Bill Clinton's wife enjoyed. Understandably, most Democrat-voting women were enthusiastic about the prospect of a female president. Many of them would have lost that enthusiasm once the nominee was old Bernie.

Despite her obvious flaws as a candidate, I think Bill Clinton's wife did about as well as any Democrat was going to do against Trump in 2016.

a reply to: mOjOm

Here's the thing - I'll wait until I see something happen first.

So far, all this durm and strang against Trump and the rest is just a bunch of jumping at shadows. Nothing outside of dark fever dreams of the imagination has actually really happened.

Due to the Muddy nature of the OP, and many of the replies...this thread is closed for review.