Government Involvement in Terror Attacks

This is a question for those who are sceptical about government involvement in terror attacks around the globe:

If another Terrorist attack, on the same scale (or bigger) than 9/11, occured on US soil and is used a pretext for declaring war on Iran (or another middle-eastern nation), would you believe it was actually terrorists or would you be of the belief it was the government attempting to sway public opinion in favour of an invasion?

What would the scale of the attack have to be to sway your opinion firmly in favour of another invasion (assuming you are currently not sure)?

ID be naturally suspicious. Im not sure I beleive the Us admin had anything to do with 911 but neither am i sure i beleive the veracity of al quaida tapes alledgedly owning up either. Its not likely we'll ever know the truth and have concrete evidence.
Timothy mcvae's bombing gives pause for thought, an unhappy marine wasnt he?
Who knows, there is such a dense cloud of conspiracy and confusion, its difficult to guage the truth of any situation nowdays without firsthand witness of it.
Having said that and found a document from an earlier administration, that said showed exactly that kind of scheming and coverup to justify certain actions, its not completely unbeleivable.

Depends how big the attack is. In my eyes the goverment already has enough fuel to attack Iran due to they are an enemy of Iraq now and doing terroist acts and endangering our troops. (I don't agree at all we should attack Iran I am just saying the goverment would pull something like that)

A terrorist attack sponsored by the US gov already happened at a place called WACO Texas. Janet Reno, Hillary, and Bill all planned the murder of 80 children in an inferno. That is a crime against humanity...........

I dont think they need to create a faux attack to excuse invading iran, they were successful enough pumping up the patriotic grenade polishers over iraq and 911 so i think dubya will just keep running with that, probably say iraq sold the missing WMD to iran
The jarheads will love it, must be running out of things to blow up and folk to shoot in iraq, off to greener pastures!

Originally posted by instar
I dont think they need to create a faux attack to excuse invading iran, they were successful enough pumping up the patriotic grenade polishers over iraq and 911 so i think dubya will just keep running with that, probably say iraq sold the missing WMD to iran

The jarheads will love it, must be running out of things to blow up and folk to shoot in iraq, off to greener pastures!

Question about WMD, its been a while since I brushed up on my facts. Does the US have a stock pile of WMD?

If government agencies can set-up, fund and arm terrorist/guerilla groups to fight on foreign soil, to help their political aspirations and corporate interests in that particular geographic location, then why should we believe they would never do the same on their own soil?

If innocent lives lost to these "proxy" groups mean so little to them as long as they help their aims then why should they care any more about the lives of the people whose interests they are in office to represent. It needn't be Americans commiting terrorist acts on American soil or against the American people but proxy groups are deniable and expendable once the deed is done. And hey, if you then shoot it out with the "terrorists" and kill them all, you score more brownie points in the eyes of the people for swift retribution.
A terrorist cell carrying out an act may not even know who is ultimately behind that act and who set-up and funded it. Simple false-flag ops.

Hasn't it always been that way?

Qualification Check

Originally posted by Clandestine
This is a question for those who are sceptical about government involvement in terror attacks around the globe:

I'm skeptical of everything, especially claims made without any credible foundation. If that qualifies me to answer the question, then read on.

Applying Reason Where Histrionics Fail

Originally posted by Clandestine
If another Terrorist attack, on the same scale (or bigger) than 9/11, occured on US soil and is used a pretext for declaring war on Iran (or another middle-eastern nation), would you believe it was actually terrorists or would you be of the belief it was the government attempting to sway public opinion in favour of an invasion?

I would examine whatever evidence was available to me before drawing any conclusions.

However, that would seem to put me in the minority around here, and most of the time there isn't enough credible evidence to draw any conclusions.

Rather, I'm usually forced to work with information that is so massaged and vetted before I ever see it that the best I can hope for is some sort of loose corroboration. Not exactly a solid basis for confident assertions.

What I believe about all this is that the truth is out there, somewhere, but with all the bullfeces being thrown around, good luck ever figuring out what it is.

When Size Really Doesn't Matter

Originally posted by Clandestine
What would the scale of the attack have to be to sway your opinion firmly in favour of another invasion (assuming you are currently not sure)?

The scale of a terrorist attack has no connection in my mind to a decision to invade anyone.

I'm more interested in preventing them, personally, and hope the U.S. is successful in doing so – although I am skeptical about that, too.

The real War on Terrorism is not a game of tit for tat, and in my estimation it is far more subtle and far-reaching than anything I have seen published on the Internet even hints at.

But that's the way secret wars have always worked, so I don't see any reason why the combatants would change their tactics now.

Meanwhile, on forums like this one, we can amuse ourselves discussing the broken candy dish while the elephant stomps around the room unnoticed.

Well said Majic, quite.

However, I've never been one for resisting the urge to offer up conjecture in response to a post like this.

If a nuke goes off, and is blamed on North Korea, be very skeptical.

If a nuke goes off and is blamed on Iran be very, very skeptical.

We know for a FACT that America is conducting covert, terrorist operations in at least 10 countries. That number could be much higher. I'd say it's pretty clear who the terrorists are.

Originally posted by Huria86

Originally posted by instar
I dont think they need to create a faux attack to excuse invading iran, they were successful enough pumping up the patriotic grenade polishers over iraq and 911 so i think dubya will just keep running with that, probably say iraq sold the missing WMD to iran

The jarheads will love it, must be running out of things to blow up and folk to shoot in iraq, off to greener pastures!

Question about WMD, its been a while since I brushed up on my facts. Does the US have a stock pile of WMD?

ROFLMAO ya know, come to think of it, I beleive they do! But thats different, cause their Americans!

Sure, like we armed Japan military and let them have at it on Pearl Harbor in WWII, not. I do not see hard evidence either way. Paranoid and fear are the worst enemy, inside yourself. Speculation of theories that has not been founded as true because not enough research. I am not going out to buy a book of someone who claims to know what happened. If this person did, than why publish a book to reveal? Money is the underlined agenda for this person. Like someone writing a Sci-Fi book to publish for money. So there are a lot of theories, but which one can you believe? Ya, I suppose John Blow down the street has the truth, he says. I would wonder if so called secret sources can be valid of what is going on. These methods also have been proven to be lies as well. Worry to much of what if, is the key of fear and control. I don't worry about it because it creats paranoia that will limit your common sense to reality and living life.

Question about WMD, its been a while since I brushed up on my facts. Does the US have a stock pile of WMD?

ROFLMAO ya know, come to think of it, I beleive they do! But thats different, cause their Americans!


I can't even comment on this, if a country was planning to invade the US over WMD it would be intresting as to what they would say.

They might say the US was a threat to peace.
They might say the proliferation of US WMD cannot be allowed to continue unchecked.
They might say the US was a dangerous rogue nation, hell bent on removing freedom and liberty from others while proclaiming to do the opposit!

You never know what they might say.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
A terrorist attack sponsored by the US gov already happened at a place called WACO Texas. Janet Reno, Hillary, and Bill all planned the murder of 80 children in an inferno. That is a crime against humanity...........

No doubt, but that’s not what I’m after.

I don't want to get into the whole Bush vs. Clinton, Rep. vs. Dem, left vs. right BS, because lets face it, does it really make a difference? They're all crooks in some form or another.

I believe the threat of a terror attack on US soil is very real. Our government did not create 9/11, they may have screwed up and underestimated some people, and they bit us in the ass.

Waco, that is not terrorism, what Koresh did to those kids was horrible, and he was not a prophet, he was a con . Those people choose to make a final stand, and there were extreme and horrible consequences. Remember Ruby Ridge, now that was wrong.
Oklahoma City is another that comes to mind. That was pulled off by our own countrymen, beneath our noses.

I think NK wants us dead, as does Iran, as does AQ, as does a very large part of the world. This is not a battle against one foe, but many that will come at us from many fronts, The next 20 years of history that will be written will change our lives for centuries. The US is not the safe and secure ploace it used to be. The bottom line is money, and what it will buy. If it took 20 bucks in Chechnya to sneak a few bombers on board(yeah,remmeber that???) here it will be a few Plasma TV's and hUmmer, and you can get anything in this country.

Fear you neighbor and his own greed, not the poor schmuck who runs the gas station from 6 to midnight each day.

Originally posted by esdad71
I believe the threat of a terror attack on US soil is very real. Our government did not create 9/11, they may have screwed up and underestimated some people, and they bit us in the ass.

Oklahoma City is another that comes to mind. That was pulled off by our own countrymen, beneath our noses.

Interesting that you believe the government was involved in the Oklahoma bombing but not in 9/11.

Will you never entertain the idea or are you yet to be convinced?

What exactly do you think happened to those kids? Not one of them claimed any molestation. Not one of them claimed any abuse. Regardless, using a tank to shoot fire into the compound is not the way to liberate captive children. Waco was a sacrifice, a sort of ritual.

McVeigh was probably a patsy, seeing as there's no compelling evidence to implicate him.

Ruby Ridge was a disgrace. They shot the man's dog, his child, his wife. FBI bastards deserve a long slow roasting in hell.

9/11 was odd for a whole host of reasons. The radio beacons in the towers, the damage to the Pentagon, the catastrophic and complete failure of the Pentagon's SAM batteries, the convenient evidence found laying around everywhere (things like passports that should have been burned in that hellfire that supposedly vaporized steel), etc. etc..

However I don't believe Israelis had anything to do with 9/11. They were using the CIA facilities underneath the WTC if I remember, and lost quite a bit of Gold and a good number of personell in the attacks. The story about Jews missing work that day were initially put out by the incredibly biased Arab press, and substantiated by hate mongers the world over. I don't know who caused 9/11, but I'm pretty sure the Jews didn't stand to benefit. Make no mistake, they found a way to prosper regardless, but I don't think they caused the events.

You know why fully three quarters of the world hates us? It's because of our actions, not because of jealousy. Imperialism breeds resentment. We should have learned the lesson of Rome, but here we are, banging our head on the same damned nail.

Clarification on Oklahoma City- Sorry, not by our own governement, but our own citizens.

I entertain all ideas. Sometimes when you take a bit from one story, and a little from this one and a bit from a third, you can get a clearer picture of where the world is headed. I do not think our gov't had a hand in 9/11. COuld it have been prevented, who knows, but it wasn't. THere is no one to blame but those who commited the act. and they are not done.

We came together after 9/11, but if you have simitaneous strikes in a few major cities now, and supply lines to the local Wal-Mart are cut, rioting would break out... where does the government stand to win in such a situation?

If there is something to gain, then create diversion, such as Riechstag. Hitler wanted global power and needed a push. I feel we would be in Iraq now even without 9/11. It is not only about Oil, but our impending war with Iran.

However, when, not if, we attack Iran, I think there will be bloodshed bought to the American shores, and there will be nothing we can do but defend ourselves.


PS...How about those elections, huh

Originally posted by DrHoracid
A terrorist attack sponsored by the US gov already happened at a place called WACO Texas. Janet Reno, Hillary, and Bill all planned the murder of 80 children in an inferno. That is a crime against humanity...........

who stays in a burning building? regardless of who started the fire, it was their choice (not the children's, but the adults) to stay, and therefore, that makes those adults murderes and the children victims of their parents shortsightedness and neglect.

They killed the children.....

Independent autopsy reports indicated many Davidians killed one another inside the burning compound. The autopsies showed that many of the gunshots that killed 19 Davidians, including four children, were fired from pointblank range. A 3-year-old was stabbed to death, and Koresh was killed by a shot to the exact center of his forehead.

THe children did not claim molestation, however it is known (google it) that he had 'wives' as young as 12, and that some parents let their kids 'marry' him at 14, making him a polygamist. I don't care who you are, it is not right for a grown man to be with children, and that is what they are.

There was abundant evidence from witnesses that Koresh did sleep with girls as young as 12 after preparing them for years for their encounter with "the Lamb of God." These girls allegedly were given special "star of David" necklaces to wear that designated their status as future Koresh "wives." And Gifford’s statement notwithstanding, officials did not rule the molestation allegations were unfounded. Instead, they were unable to document them in the one visit paid by a social worker to the compound.

They had also amassed a large amount of weapons

The investigation of the Davidians began only after a UPS delivery of empty grenade hulls was accidentally discovered. The lengthy search warrant affidavit contained detailed evidence of amassing of machine gun parts and explosives ingredients. Even lawyers for the Davidians never challenged the affidavit’s legality. After the compound burned, officials found that the Davidians had purchased more than $242,000 in weapons and ammunition. In the ashes of the compound, they found grenades, silencers, more than 1 million bullets and 48 illegal machine guns.

[edit on 1-2-2005 by esdad71]