How the USA's healthcare system outperform's Norway.

a reply to: daskakik

Not even a rebuttal?

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Shamrock6

Not really. The parameters of your study determine the final rankings. If I'm looking for the most coverage, my parameters reflect that. If I'm looking for the best outcomes, my parameters reflect that. If I'm looking for the quickest care, my parameters reflect that.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.

No, rather I think it's the irony of what you said that's sailing over your head.

You posted numbers that support your assertion, and you're ignoring ones that don't. That makes your comment that it all depends on the "goals" of your "study" (which lets be honest: you sure as hell didn't do a comprehensive study on the issue) incredibly ironic.

Seriously though, why Norway? Why not France? They share the US' love of fatty foods and alcohol. They have an immigration problem. They even had their own revolution modeled after our own. That seems like a more apt comparison.

One of these countries consistently tops the WHO's ranking of healthcare systems. The other consistently does considerably worse. I'll leave it up to you too figure out which is which.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Pointing out that the argument is a strawman is a rebuttal.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: noonebutme

This is why I used norway. It's one of the best systems in the world. Yet it hasn't been able to keep pace with the advances the US system has made in outcomes.

I have never, ever read a report saying the US health care system was on par with *any* of the Scandinavian countries.

And you likely never will.

You're making assumptions that health and one's quality of health is directly linked to the health care service provided by that country.

I'm actually making the exact opposite claim. America's health outcomes are bad, not because of the system, but because of the lifestyle of Americans. Universal healthcare won't fix those outcomes and will actually make them worse. I don't expect those outside of the US to understand this.

Exactly... the US is a country in which obesity is a problem concentrated in lowest income class! Poor people are so poor, they are fat. What kind of Alice in Wonderland reality is this? So much cheap food around poor people can't help but be fat.

a reply to: daskakik

Wow, that's just a flat out lie. The US tops the charts in obesity and sugar consumption. Those are killers. The next closest western countries, aren't even close.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: daskakik

Not even a rebuttal?

Nah, that would mean he'd have to actually post something logical with facts and figures. Much easier to just claim something is a strawman without actually forming an argument to support the position.

The fact of the matter is you cannot compare a country with 65 million to a country with 325 million and also ignore many of the other structural issues too that might result in numbers favoring one country over another. Many of the Scandanavian countries and others are much more homogenous racially and culturally. In addition, their governments are also not playing world police, so they have money available to spend on these government healthplans (but still are going broke). Finally, you cannot ignore the difference between healthcare and health insurance. What good is being covered by a governmetn plan if it takes you 8 months to get an MRI?

a reply to: Dfairlite

I don't expect those outside of the US to understand this.

Actually just comparing food ingredients says a lot. Not sure how true it is, because it's just stuff I've seen pop up on social media of sorts, but it seems that many foods that contain sugar in Canada, pop, coffee creamers, and even some soups, and things where you wouldn't expect sugars, use high fructose corn syrup in the states, which is worse for your health. More chemical preservatives as well.

Both our countries have a junk food problem though. 😕

a reply to: Shamrock6

No, I get what you're saying. I just disagree, and as the person who got the data, I think I know my motives better than you. But hey, you'll believe what you wanna believe. I'm OK with that.

a reply to: snowspirit

It's so delicious.

Look at all the people we have living to a ripe old age in Nursing homes here in the USA, all doped up on meds so they can't complain. That raises the life expectancy. You have to consider quality of life too, not just figures that are distorted. Maybe we have a lot more babies surviving, that raises the life expectancy rate.

The US healthcare is an expensive joke, riddled with people trying to profit extensively from it. Norways has a good life expectancy, better than the USA. www.worldlifeexpectancy.com... Now, just because the United states is improving has nothing to do with medicine, it has to do with promoting healthy eating. Doctors seem to push pills, I have never had a doctor give me advice on what to eat. I should start going to a holistic doctor, they advise people like that. Here is the US ranking, overall Norway has an 81 yr life expectancy, the US has 79. www.worldlifeexpectancy.com...

You can't credit healthcare for bringing up the life expectancy here in the USA, you have to give the credit to the people promoting people to eat healthier.

This thread is misinformation, evidence that has been steered in the wrong direction. The Norwegean people live a healthier lifestyle, their doctors seem to have been promoting healthy life style all along. Our doctors looked the other way for too long, just giving people pills.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Say that to someone with no med insurance and cancer

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: daskakik

Wow, that's just a flat out lie. The US tops the charts in obesity and sugar consumption. Those are killers. The next closest western countries, aren't even close.

I will agree with that. Last time I crossed the border was just over 30 years ago, and I was really surprised at how huge many of the women were. This was only in Washington state, but 😳 they were really large. Memorably large. Although, I will admit, I haven't been elsewhere in the states.
I've heard it's only gotten worse.
Maybe if the health care gets fixed so that it's not so profitable to the insurance agencies, people will be encouraged to prevent addictive eating 🤔
Then the US will see better stats on health issues.

a reply to: Shamrock6


It was talked about in college for me.

a reply to: rickymouse

Now, just because the United states is improving has nothing to do with medicine, it has to do with promoting healthy eating.

LOL, you're joking, right? Our obesity rate has tripled in that time frame. Our sugar consumption is off the charts. Americans are less healthy today than at any time in our history.

Ok, so which is it?

Look at all the people we have living to a ripe old age in Nursing homes here in the USA, all doped up on meds so they can't complain.

You can't credit healthcare for bringing up the life expectancy here in the USA

a reply to: snowspirit

Obesity is 36%. Not overweight, OBESITY. It's absolute insanity.

originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: Dfairlite

I don't expect those outside of the US to understand this.

Actually just comparing food ingredients says a lot. Not sure how true it is, because it's just stuff I've seen pop up on social media of sorts, but it seems that many foods that contain sugar in Canada, pop, coffee creamers, and even some soups, and things where you wouldn't expect sugars, use high fructose corn syrup in the states, which is worse for your health. More chemical preservatives as well.

Both our countries have a junk food problem though. 😕

Have you ever tasted the rotted fish they eat in Norway? en.wikipedia.org...

My dad used to buy this when I was a kid. I ate just a little bit, he liked it. I like salt cod and other salted and smoked fish but that stuff turned my stomach.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
www.nejm.org...=article

But no, it's not by accident. The free market outperforms every master planned society.