Surya 1 and 2 : India's ICBM's

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
And ironically, the only map showing the area as part of the Quing dynasty, is that first alf-assed MS paint job map you posted.

Man oh man.... cognitive dissonance don't begin to describe this...

i Ms paint job..??????

heres the link
www.mnsu.edu...

all three of the maps show chinas territory of nearly the of Arunachal Pradesh. if you still cant see look at the brahmaputra river

Lordy, its like trying to reason with a brick wall...


Let me just do this:
If there is anyone here other than Chinawhite who are at odds with, dispute, or need clarification on any claims I posted, let yourself be known and I'll do my best to address them.

There is no point wasting my time with someone fundamentally dishonest in their arguments.

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
Lordy, its like trying to reason with a brick wall...

i know what you mean

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004

Let me just do this:
If there is anyone here other than Chinawhite who are at odds with, dispute, or need clarification on any claims I posted, let yourself be known and I'll do my best to address them.

There is no point wasting my time with someone fundamentally dishonest in their arguments.

when i posted the map of the qing dynasty you came up with some stupid excuss saying that i MS painted it.

your a dishonest person. saying that i dont know what im talking about even if i posted links and sources showed you my maps.

while you havent given any edvidence of ethnic groups of the area, any maps, any historic links to an indian government. (you have even given one after 1914).

Do you think posting your opinion without any edvidence is going to make me change my mind.

Dont waste your breath it you dont have any edvidence in your arguements.

How pathetic

heres some more maps.



external image


www.lib.utexas.edu...
here is the land im talking about

It seems to me that your not refering to Arunachal Pradesh but to Assam. am i right in saying this. because you seem confused. Arunachal Pradesh was only made a state of india in 1987. it was known as the North-eastern forntier agency.

rajkhalsa2004 do some reading on the subject then get back to me

start with these articles
www.rediff.com...
www.rediff.com...
www.rediff.com...

i havent seen any maps that include Arunachal Pradesh in them before 20th centuary

even the mughal empire didn't include it.



british india early 20th century


www.mdx.ac.uk...

[edit on 29-5-2005 by chinawhite]

the qing maps claim sakhalin island as well!!
And Include korea as a tributary state...... didn't know that..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
the qing maps claim sakhalin island as well!!
And Include korea as a tributary state....

.. didn't know that..

seriously back in 1850. no country in asia could afford not to give tribut to the qing dynasty.

This is pointless but I'll say it anyway...

Stop debating who was the aggressor during the 1962 Sino-Indian War. Both sides claimed the other was the aggressor! I don't care how many Chinese sources one guy can pull up claiming India was the aggressor or how many Indian sources the other guy can pull up claiming China was the aggressor because, quite simply, both sides think the other initiated the attack.

There. Now stop debating it.

where the hell did you come from

anyway thxs for your opinion

Originally posted by chinawhite
where the hell did you come from

anyway thxs for your opinion

Well that was quite rude imo. I haven't been on ATS much lately because I've been busy with my life, but isn't it the nature of forums for people to just randomly pop in and voice their thoughts?

And you're welcome for the opinion.

my post was ment to be friendly

My apologies for having taken it the wrong way then.

By GREGORY CLARK

China's successful moves to improve ties with India have done more than sabotage Tokyo's hopes for an anti-China alliance with New Delhi. They have also put an end to the myth that China's alleged aggressions against India since the 1960s would prevent any rapprochement between the two countries.

The key to this strange belief was the claim that China in 1962 had launched an unprovoked border attack against India. That claim was a blatant lie -- and one of the brighter and shinier variety. It was a classic example of the ease with which Western governments and intelligence agencies, together with their friends in academic, media and research organs, combine to distort information and blacken China's reputation in Asia.

In 1962 I was China desk officer in Canberra's Department of External Affairs. For much of the year there had been reports of Indian troops pushing into Chinese positions along the Sino-Indian border. On Oct. 20 we had a further report about clashes between Chinese and Indian troops at the Thag La ridge near the NEFA (North East Frontier Area) border, which was to lead to a Chinese counterattack into northern India.

New Delhi claimed unprovoked Chinese aggression. But the maps in front of me showed the Thag La ridge to be north of even the Indian-claimed frontier. So India must have attacked China first, and in an area where China had already offered major territory concessions (condemned, incidentally, by Taipei as a sellout to India).

When my cables to London and Washington confirmed this rather important fact, I assumed I could suggest to my superiors to ease up on their instant denunciations of Chinese "aggression" and their promises of immediate arms to India. Their response was swift: "We fail to see that it is not in the Western interest to have the Chinese and the Indians at each other's throats." London and Washington went along with this grubby realpolitik. Soon the commentators and experts in the Western media and elsewhere were retailing ominous tales about China's aggressive intentions throughout Asia.

The myth of Chinese aggression against peaceful India was to distort Asian affairs for more than 40 years. With the help of Western black-information agencies -- British especially -- it was to provide much of the justification later for Western intervention in Indochina. Detailed documentation from Beijing proving the location of the Thag La ridge was ignored.

Even the 1972 publication of "India's China War," the irrefutably detailed book by Neville Maxwell, the London Times New Delhi correspondent at the time, proving how Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru had ordered the attack across the frontier, largely because of national pride and angst over the way China had consolidated control over Tibet, did little to change things. My own book on the subject, "In Fear of China," published four years earlier, had done even less.

Now, finally, with last month's historic meeting between the Chinese and Indian prime ministers in New Delhi, the myth is being buried. Both sides have agreed to settle frontier differences -- something China has long been able to do with all its other contiguous neighbors, often generously. India has dropped any challenge to China's sovereignty in Tibet. China has recognized Indian sovereignty over the once semiautonomous Himalayan region of Sikkim. A strategic partnership has been promised.

But hopes of Japan-India cooperation to oppose China still smolder in the hearts of many Japanese hawks. For years the goal was a tripartite Japan- India-Australia alliance against Beijing in Asia. That began to fall apart as Canberra belatedly realized its economic future lay with China.

Now the hawks are making much of Japan and India's alleged democracy vs. China's alleged totalitarianism, hoping to link into U.S. neocon plans to use the democracy issue to inspire change not just in the Middle East but eventually to force confusion and breakup in China. Leading hawk Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara has now come out openly in the latest issue of Bungei Shunju magazine calling for such a breakup. With the Yasukuni Shrine issue back in the headlines, others will want to follow.

Yasukuni is an especially fertile source of continued anti-China claims. Tokyo's insistence that Beijing's protests over Yasukuni amount to intervention in Japan's domestic affairs rings hollow when one considers how the shrine and its notorious museum celebrate a Japanese intervention in China's domestic affairs that left some 20 million people dead. And Article 11 of the 1952 San Francisco Peace Treaty specifically obliges Japan to accept Beijing's key point, namely that the 14 wartime leaders enshrined at Yasukuni were in fact A-class war criminals. You can't get more international than that.

Talk about Japan's 60 year postwar record of peaceful behavior in Asia and official development assistance to China is also meaningless when it is clear that Tokyo wants to be involved in U.S. plans for military action against North Korea and China. ODA was simply a cheap way for Japan to avoid having to pay war reparations to China.

The claims that Japan has already apologized to China more than 20 times are also meaningless, given Tokyo's stubborn refusals to admit to former atrocities in China and to compensate Chinese and Korean individuals enslaved during the war years. As both the Chinese and South Korean leadership have pointed out, actions are more important than words, and so far Tokyo's actions have not been impressive.

That the Western media have largely gone along with Tokyo's claims over Yasukuni is further proof of just how easily they accept distorted views of China. Other examples include the Tiananmen massacre myth (check the now declassified cables from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing at the time for the true story), the claim that China's claims over Taiwan are expansionist (check the terms on which every major power has accepted Beijing's sovereignty over the island), or Beijing's constant reference to Taiwan as a "renegade province" (check the English-language Web sites for the main Chinese newspapers to find the reality). And so on.

It's time this important nation was taken more seriously.

www.japantimes.co.jp...

dude you're posting that like on ALL the threads..

and whats up with the signature??.. relax... its peace time now...

lol i found this article very interesting. i had to post.

im using some guys u2u because it sounds so funny. he doesn't have a clue what his talking about.

Peace

notice i dont post any Anti-indian anymore.

chinawhite


Where

theres a link there. its from japan today

Originally posted by COWlan
Tibetans are now a minority in Tibet, Han Chinese is the majority of the population in Tibet now. Persecuted? Do you not kill the insurgents?

Read this : link

There are some bloody grusome pics of killings in a seperate link with warning. Hell, even osama dose'nt deserve such a death. Those pics are SICKENING to say the least.

China can have a great economy, and be economically faaar ahead of India or another nation and have a larger army and more nukes,etc or beat another nation in war but this is SICK.

Hell do you guys have any sense of humaneness....how can you kill someone like that? and what's the offence ? ..organising a rally against persecution.

and how can you complain about japanese atrocities after looking at what the state does to its own people ?

Hell think of driving tanks on protestors..your own people. and that too these are state sponsored.

China can have the best GDP numbers or the best economy or the best missile or the best nuke, but how it treats its people defines the quality of a state.

Read these BBC documentries . :

Inside China's sweatshops : Chinese factory workers endure gruelling conditions

China 'abusing' workers, says Amnesty

i can understand if these were private companies or irresponsible individuals but these acts done by the state are not good.

and the state controlled media drives me sick. Think of it ...1.5 billion websites are banned in China.

China's penal code drives me nuts :

Ye Guozhu, 49, was found guilty of "picking quarrels and stirring up trouble", and jailed for 4 years

news.bbc.co.uk...

China's intolerance of dissent

news.bbc.co.uk...

And how all is brushed under the carpet by one single statement " Chinese communism flows from the barrel of the gun"...hell drives me sick

and this www.uhrp.org...

I have a great deal of respect for china's rich history and culture, but the present state of affairs disgusts me.

What is a country wihout its people i ask.

EDIT : edited to remove certain foul words, because i was sooooooooo upset after seeing those pics.




[edit on 26-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

LOL STEALTHSPY you talk about peace while you hate gandhi.

[edit on 26-6-2005 by chinawhite]