Who is Doing the Forgiving!

Who in the world are those involved in religion asking for forgiveness? From God! Therefore the assumption is, God’s not reconciled when they sin. In their mind they are separating themselves from God by their sin. Justification...Redemption...Propitiation...Remission...and Forbearance...all terms God wants people to acknowledge, to become familiar with, and to come to fully appreciate. Never make the mistake of thinking that these terms all mean the same thing. They do not. Each one has a distinct meaning all its own. Oftentimes, people will look at these terms and sort of lump them all together under a heading called forgiveness. 


To many people are trying to Christianize the flesh. One should never drive the train from emotions, but there are denominations living in the caboose, driving the train from the emotion standpoint, not living it from the doctrinal standpoint. But think about this: Is forgiveness the same thing as being justified or having someone else’s righteousness freely attributed to their account? They are not one and the same. The human race’s sins have all been forgiven, but forgiveness alone does not mean the person having forgiveness is as perfectly and totally righteous as the one who is doing the forgiving.

a reply to: newnature1

I have been praying forgiveness from a huge bear skull for the past weeks, sprinkling beer,booze and honey on it.
I also ask for power to overcome difficulties in my life from it, and to put fear in my enemies.

Does that count?



One edit, salvationism is a plague, is it not?

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: newnature1

I have been praying forgiveness from a huge bear skull for the past weeks, sprinkling beer,booze and honey on it.
I also ask for power to overcome difficulties in my life from it, and to put fear in my enemies.

Does that count?


One edit, salvationism is a plague, is it not?

One of Satan’s ministers of righteousness big time lies is that God is continuing to count new sins against those who are already believers and therefore, those new sins must be forgiven along the pathway of a believer’s life in order that those believers retain, maintain the reconciliation status in God’s mind that Jesus has already achieved.

a reply to: newnature1

Faith as get out of jail free card even if you have done something you should be punished for. People with no sense of righteousness want a religion where you do not have to fix the problems you create and take responsability.

Now what did Yeshua say about people who did use faith as a get out of jail free card.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Paul do not speak for Yeshua. No matter how much you allow him to change/reinterpret Yeshua:s meassage to measure up and sin no more.

Sooner or later we all end up before the mirror.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: newnature1

Faith as get out of jail free card even if you have done something you should be punished for. People with no sense of righteousness want a religion where you do not have to fix the problems you create and take responsability.

Now what did Yeshua say about people who did use faith as a get out of jail free card.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Paul do not speak for Yeshua. No matter how much you allow him to change/reinterpret Yeshua:s meassage to measure up and sin no more.

Sooner or later we all end up before the mirror.

The law gave Paul an inside look at the complexity of sin in that through the law Paul was given insight into the sin that was actually working inside him. (Romans 7:7) The law wasn’t sinful, the law revealed the sin in Paul. It was the law that gave Paul a picture of the depravity of his own heart. It’s more of an attitude than it is an action. You just can’t see dust particles until the light rays of the sun bring those dust particles into focus. And surprisingly enough, the light seems to stir them up and make them even more active. It’s important we know the difference, because the old man and this sin attitude are not one and the same. The old man speaks of your former Identity with Adam. That identity is no longer true of believers. So, the old man is a thing of the past, having been crucified with Jesus, and the new man is the new identity belonging to every believer. The sad news is that this sin attitude is ever present...the battle against this sin attitude that the apostle Paul struggled with himself on a day-by-day basis. Nothing and no one can take your identity in the last Adam away from you. God accomplished that for you.

a reply to: newnature1

Who in the world are those involved in religion asking for forgiveness?

All of them, I think.

Its the standard, bow your head, mutter under breath, then, you're forgiven!

Just believe it.

a reply to: newnature1

Do you believe in the continual use of 1John1:9, by believers, to maintain fellowship with God? I think its a necessary function of our royal priesthood in Christ.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: newnature1

Who in the world are those involved in religion asking for forgiveness?

All of them, I think.

Its the standard, bow your head, mutter under breath, then, you're forgiven!

Just believe it.

Did the apostle Paul know what to pray for as he ought when he was asking God to deliver him from the thorn in his flesh? You see, had Paul known that God’s strength during the dispensation of grace is perfected in the lives of those who are weak, Paul would probably not have asked for deliverance in the first place. However, when Paul did come to understand how God was working in this dispensation, he did an abrupt about face telling us that he now took pleasure in infirmities. The believer’s patient endurance through suffering is a way of demonstrating their hope, and when their hope is put on display in the midst of their suffering that brings glory to God. The grace and strength God gives a person to endure that suffering is the strength of God he wants others to see in that person’s life. That’s when God’s strength is perfected in a believer’s life.

a reply to: newnature1

Pretty complex. Heres my version. If you have wronged someone, wherever possible, seek to make amends or reparations with them.

Doesn't matter if they forgive you or not, what matters is your confession to them your apology to them. Praying to God is a dodge.

a reply to: newnature1

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person. I edited it, but I meant to direct the 1John 1:9 question to you.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: newnature1

Pretty complex. Heres my version. If you have wronged someone, wherever possible, seek to make amends or reparations with them.

Doesn't matter if they forgive you or not, what matters is your confession to them your apology to them. Praying to God is a dodge.

We put on the shoes of peace because we are to forgive as we have been forgiven, and we must base our relationships with others on the same criteria. If we fail to speak the truth in love and manage our emotions, anger which turns to bitterness and unforgiveness is an open invitation to enemy.

The important process of renewing our mind includes managing our emotions by managing our thoughts and perceptions. The enemy are always hurling their fiery darts of fear, doubt and worry in our direction, but the only time they can hit us is when we let our shield of faith down.

a reply to: newnature1

Please forgive me (pun intended), I'm not quite following the reasoning of the thread.

Jesus told us to pray to the Heavenly Father for forgiveness,... he asked the Heavenly Father to forgive his executioners as he hung on the cross,... and he also told people to stop sinning.

“This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts/offenses/sins, as we forgive those who indebt/offend/sin against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 6:9-15

Jesus said, “Father,forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

Luke 23:34

but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

John 8:1-11

Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals. Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie—the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?”

“Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.

The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”

But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”

So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?”

The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well.

John 5:1-15

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: newnature1

Please forgive me (pun intended), I'm not quite following the reasoning of the thread.

Jesus told us to pray to the Heavenly Father for forgiveness,... he asked the Heavenly Father to forgive his executioners as he hung on the cross,... and he also told people to stop sinning.

“This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts/offenses/sins, as we forgive those who indebt/offend/sin against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 6:9-15

Jesus said, “Father,forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

Luke 23:34

but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

John 8:1-11

Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals. Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie—the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?”

“Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.

The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”

But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”

So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?”

The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well.

John 5:1-15

Before that kingdom could be realized, there was a prophetic event that had to take place first. The way Jesus taught has special application to that tribulation period to those people who were being taught to pray in this manner. This will be a very heartfelt prayer during the tribulation period. During the time of Jacob’s trouble, the Israelites will be under tremendous persecution from the antichrist. He will be putting Israelites to death for their faith. The Israelites will be praying at that time, “thy kingdom come” the promised earthly kingdom to be set up right here on earth, because the only hope of deliverance for the believing Israelites at that time, will be the coming of the king and setting up of the earthly kingdom.

“Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” is a divine definition of the millennium. The kingdom is when the will of Yahweh is carried out in the earth to the same degree it is carried out in heaven. The Israelites have an earthly hope, they were promised the earth forever. At the time when Israel will be facing the wrath of Satan - the time that Israel was being prepared for when they were being taught how to pray - Satan will have been kicked out of the heaven and cast down to the earth and Yahweh’s will, will indeed be being done in the realm where Satan has just been cast out.

This prayer is appropriate for the Israelites of that day, they will be praying at that time just as the disciples had been taught to pray. It is recited in churches across the country in our day. It is recited as though it is a prayer for today. While we are not to use vain repetition, it is recited like vain repetition as people stand up and uttering together. At the time this prayer was being taught to pray “our Father” meant that you recognized, if you were an Israelite, that you had a covenant relationship with Yahweh; you were his children.

These saints of the earthly kingdom program will be praying in the day “Give us this day our daily bread.” They will be worrying about that day, not the next day as that earthly kingdom becomes a reality for those Israelites. “Debtors” Israel’s status as a nation above all nations depended on this very thing. The believers of Israel will be seeking forgiveness in respect to their willingness to forgive. Yahweh will not restore that nation to a place of national prominence above all nations of the earth until they adhere to the exhortation, forgive us our sins as WE (corporately) are willing to forgive those who have sinned against us.

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: newnature1

I have been praying forgiveness from a huge bear skull for the past weeks, sprinkling beer,booze and honey on it.
I also ask for power to overcome difficulties in my life from it, and to put fear in my enemies.

Does that count?


One edit, salvationism is a plague, is it not?

That was a creepily-close description of my Saturday nights.

But as far as forgiveness? I'd hate to live a reality where I felt the need to be forgiven for imaginary sins. I've always thought it funny that most evangelical white Christians adamantly oppose the concept of reparations or, as white people call it, "white guilt" because they do not want to be held accountable for the atrocities committed by people long ago. Yet they will allow mythology to rule over them in the same exact way.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: newnature1

I have been praying forgiveness from a huge bear skull for the past weeks, sprinkling beer,booze and honey on it.
I also ask for power to overcome difficulties in my life from it, and to put fear in my enemies.

Does that count?


One edit, salvationism is a plague, is it not?

That was a creepily-close description of my Saturday nights.

But as far as forgiveness? I'd hate to live a reality where I felt the need to be forgiven for imaginary sins. I've always thought it funny that most evangelical white Christians adamantly oppose the concept of reparations or, as white people call it, "white guilt" because they do not want to be held accountable for the atrocities committed by people long ago. Yet they will allow mythology to rule over them in the same exact way.

Prideful arrogance. We can have all the truth in the world, but if we separate ourself from others due to that prideful arrogance, or if we fail to relate to others with agape love that Paul talks about when he talks about speaking the truth in love, who are we going to reach? What good will that knowledge do us? How far will that knowledge get us when it comes to taking the truth of the gospel of the Savior out to others? We’ll without a doubt make many more enemies than we’ll make converts that way. That was the problem with the Israelites. The Israelites were to be a light unto the world but in that lofty position of their own prideful arrogance, they refused to get that light out there where others could see it. They were blinded by the light they thought they had. Put it another way, they had become the light blockers in a very real sense rather than the light sharers. 


Israel supposed they were producing sufficient righteousness through their performance for God to recognize their performance and call them just in his eyes. They thought they were measuring up to God’s standard. How many people think they’re measuring up to God’s standard today? The religious people across the land are doing that very thing. Israel wore their self righteousness like a badge of honor.