Where did all of the bigotry come from? (You are not to blame)

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
a reply to: Tiger5

Looking back to the 60's...almost 60 years ago, is looking forwards?



Like I said, all races can claim discrimination and oppression if the WANT to.

Ok. I have tried to explain that changes really take generations to come into effect. The women are still being paid less than men despite the suffragettes. OK you just do not see it - Fine I am moving on!


All races can claim discrimination. But can all sensible races (individuals) claim an equal amount of discrimination? Are all equally discriminated against or suffer? You seem to be very evasive>

Believe me no one has ever asked me when I wanted to start family! No one has ever photographed my backside and no one has ever flashed me or pressed u to e on the underground. Can you get that?

To respond to your comment on all races... you are correct but surely we should be seeking to eradicate discrimination because it is illogical an obscene unless you enjoy discrimination!

When I was in South London as a teen I learnt to call anyone a C+nt. It was cool and was also used in English literature.. Because of women taking umbrage I learnt to not use it because I honestly did not want to offend or be seen as boorish. I do not use that word anymore. Do you like people using he C -word? DO you want to have the right to call me a N++ger?

Just curious?

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
So - to clarify, i base my views on what I lived and breathed, you base yours apparently on some book you read.

Says it all, really.

FYI the boy I witnessed being stabbed in the throat by a loyalist simply because he was an Irish catholic wearing a football scarf died that day in the street.

We all went down and put out flowers, wraths, football tops and scarves to pay respects...and on the other side of the street stood rows of angry loyalists who were outraged that one of their maniac friends was jailed that day for murder. They spat on us, swors at us, burned the wreaths, scarves and soccer tops. A few days later we went out into the streets and the paving stones had been painted red, white and blue in an act of outright defiance...how dare they persecute a murderer who was brave enough to cut the throat of a young boy!

[Mod note: snipped last sentence.]

Lady you do not know a damn thing about me. I lived it! Growing up in th 60s and 70s was a racist dream! Specialists work for the British Army in the 90s was madness. It was equal opps because a black man with greying hair being driving into visible and invisible military building was a Republican's dream target because I sided with the enemy. The working around the areas where the kerbstones were painted Red white and blue was a loyalist's dream target. What many did not raise was that the loyalists had strong links with the far right English like Column 88, the BNP, etc. At the weekend I read An Phlobact ( Republican news) because I was curious. Did anyone give a damn that I have dual citizenship ??NO!


But please do not let the facts of my life affect your misconceptions.

I am white and I have never felt discriminated against bc of my skin. I think it would be silly to think any white could be discriminated on bc of their color. Whites are the majority and the majority does not get discriminated against. If you are white and do feel discriminated against...it may be for another reason.

I am also a single mother. The first time I ever felt discriminated against was when I was researching sperm banks. I had a couple sperm banks tell me they would not give sperm to a single women. Even though I could get it from other sources if I really wanted to, I felt discriminated against for the first time. Even writing about it today brings back the hurt and uneasiness of this rediculous discrimination. Who is anyone to say that a sound single women would not make a better parent then 2 miserably married people who argue in front of their children all the time? That married couple would have no problem getting the sperm but I could not.

Anyways, with that said, it is easy for any race to claim discrimination , I just find it silly for whites to claim it's bc of the color of their skin.

a reply to: veracity

Come to the ghetto baby.

I am sure I could find multiple situations you'd feel very uncomfortable in(just cause youre the wrong shade), just another day for me. :")

Of course you don't get any flack if you stay in the Ivory Tower.

Gotta come play w the plebs.

Humans are inherently tribal. We are afraid of the other guys. "us and them"

We are also visual creatures, so we tend to separate each other into groups by what we look like.

Add to that powerful people that realize we are easier to control when we are fighting or scared, and you get today's climate.

originally posted by: Tiger5

Ok. I have tried to explain that changes really take generations to come into effect. The women are still being paid less than men despite the suffragettes. OK you just do not see it - Fine I am moving on!

True women are still in many cases being paid less then men .... but its

better than it was 50 years ago. And because of the suffragettes

women can now vote, own property in their own right, get credit own a

business, and take full responsibilities of their own bodies, which didnt

happen 60 yrs ago.

All races can claim discrimination. But can all sensible races (individuals) claim an equal amount of discrimination? Are all equally discriminated against or suffer?

How on earth does one measure discrimination, pain or suffering these things

are subjective. All people have different tolerance levels for the same things!

Believe me no one has ever asked me when I wanted to start family! No one has ever photographed my backside and no one has ever flashed me or pressed u to e on the underground. Can you get that?

I can get that ..... youre not alone ..... No one has asked me either!!

Does that mean I have been discriminated against too?

Is your hurt greater than mine?

To respond to your comment on all races... you are correct but surely we should be seeking to eradicate discrimination because it is illogical an obscene unless you enjoy discrimination!

If you weren't 'looking' for the barbs and jibes it would happen. You need

to hide the chinks in your armour.

When I was in South London as a teen I learnt to call anyone a C+nt. It was cool and was also used in English literature.. Because of women taking umbrage I learnt to not use it because I honestly did not want to offend or be seen as boorish. I do not use that word anymore. Do you like people using he C -word? DO you want to have the right to call me a N++ger?

NO it wasn't cool .... but I suppose being a teen you 'thought it was.'

My family including the teens dont swear, for them it was nipped in the bud,

it stunts the vocabulary, and draws the wrong type of person to you.

We all have names .... I'll call you by yours?? same as I call every one else by

their given name.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
I think economic decline, and even life expectancy decline, is the reason many whites are upset, it doesn't have much to do with racism. Racism is just the deflection the left uses to avoid talking about the real problems.

and yet....democrats and liberals are attacked for this income decline, but republicans are the ones that haven't passed any legislation that helps the poor or middle class...they pass tax cuts for the wealthy, and still want to continue that, and now they want to get rid of the safety net programs for millions of poor white people, as well as for minorities.....anyone want to bet a $1 that some time in the next 2 years, the middleclass and/or poor are going to get screwed?......

a reply to: syrinx high priest

I think humans are multi tribal. So sometimes guys hang out together.. Women also hang out together. Tribes frequently cross differences of sexuality/race/gender and age. Dear god even Americans hang together when abroad!!

I think the 500Ib gorilla in the middle of the room is what do we want to do? Do we want to go back in time regarding social justice (a very conservative concept) or do we want to move forward and continue the present trajectory based on current social justice?

a reply to: Tiger5

Going back is not a reasonable option. But neither is continuing along the current path.

A balanced approach is the best answer: people of all colours, religions, ethnicities and belief systems are granted the same rights and freedoms; no group is made to feel guilty or pay reparations for the actions of their ancestors; racial/gender quotas removed from businesses, politics and the entertainment industry; and the removal of tax-payer funded support for programs that are designed to only help one specific gender, race or group.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

sounds fairly reasonable. can't really logically argue with you on any of these points.

The problem is not having religion and faith from within.

I will use the cake bakers as an example...

We have freedom of religion and also civil rights. Religous people are afraid that we are picking away at their religious freedoms bc we do not let them practice their beliefs in public for example...it is not allowed to infringe on anyones rights...for example a gay at a cake bakery.

The truth is that first of all
1) Jesus would not want you to treat the gay any less than anyone else. To infringe on the gay rights goes against law of the land and law of christian religion.

1)for those who still want to interpret the bible...your religious rights are not being taken away (try thinking about living in china). You still have your right to your belief system in church santuraries and in your own home. In china you are not allowed to even have a cross or buddha in your home...you will disappear. To say your religious beliefs are being infringed upon is simply NOT true.

Solution...if religion came from within (as Jesus intended for christianity) then this would not be an issue. One would not feel their religious rights are being attacked. Even in China...If you have religion and faith from within...you could still believe. However, you are in America where you can put a cross up on the outside of your house and there is a church every 15 miles...safely and sound.

But practice this spirit from within, not from the outside. You will be more in line with your God/Spirit. When this happens, everyone seems to get along just fine.

An article on the subject...
www.npr.org...

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: Tiger5

Going back is not a reasonable option. But neither is continuing along the current path.

A balanced approach is the best answer: people of all colours, religions, ethnicities and belief systems are granted the same rights and freedoms; no group is made to feel guilty or pay reparations for the actions of their ancestors; racial/gender quotas removed from businesses, politics and the entertainment industry; and the removal of tax-payer funded support for programs that are designed to only help one specific gender, race or group.

The realistic solution is that only time will solve this issue as various factions will die of old age. Race mixing will also resolve the issue. With more visible mixed raced the whole white/black divide will be come blurred.

There is considerable distrust on both sides . There is also a very shameful history.

You mentioned reparations. We both know it was not white people demanding reparations... I speak for me. Did you know that the slaveholders were paid reparations. After the American civil war the slaves did not even get their 40 acres and a mule... paid reparations? There you have two moral wrongs. I can never erase that one. Some people can trying to justify that discrepancy and good luck to them. In my opinion all that I want is equality for all especially in the law and in the work place these things at more important than reparations IMO.

There is always a question of hidden agenda. If you have been on ATS you would know that the readership is predominantly white. This is not a problem what is a problem is seeing how they think and write about justifying racism or playing it down. Some people seem to be happy to play down or condone racism. Their is a historical wound in the wet regarding a history of racism. If black and white all became amnesiac that would be fine. 99% of my day is spent considering everything else but racism. If I nailed a job interview I do not think it was because I was black. If I lost a job interview I do not yell racism do I want a prize from ATS?? Hell no!

Something else. I have never raped anyone or even thought about it. I have heard women shout "Al men are rapists". I get what they are getting at but I am not bothered about the slogan. I do NOT feel oppressed. I am not threatened. I can look any of these women in the eye, even the lesbian dykes. The reason is simply because I have ever even thought of raping anyone.

No let us look at the angry whites on ATS... Can their responses parallel mine to the women who shout about rapists???

a reply to: Tiger5

I don't want to call you any names, where did that come from? Why is that even relevant? The point is, and it's quite an obvious point, you seem reasonably intelligent, it really is a shame it has to be pointed out to you...the point is the outrage seems only to exist for certain groups.

I think I've made my position quite clear with regards to insults, abuse, bigotry...you seem to be choosing to deliberately not see that and continue to attempt to try and project these negative qualities onto me based on nothing...nothing except that I haven't agreed with you 100%.

So we can both agree that eradicating bigotry and racism is a good thing...and we both acknowledge and agree that racism and abuse is applied to all people, all races, nationalities, colours. So tell me, why defend one group, or campaign on behalf of one group and willfully ignore others that you, by your own admission - acknowledge the existence of?

This very concept is inherently bigoted...there are two sides to your bigotry. There's the obvious, negative bigotry where you have decided that certain other groups are less deserving of this worthy cause. Then there's the positive bigotry where you've decided another group are somehow more deserving.

The ultimate point is that your position is bigoted and fundamentally flawed. No I don't want to call you any names - I'll tell you what, it's you that wants me to want to call you names. You are absolutely, 100% hoping that I'll give you something....aaaaanything, that you can use to paint me in an unfavourable light simply because I don't stand alongside you on this.

Yes, I would love to see the end of bigotry because it isn't something I want to partake in as either giver or receiver. I don't want to see a black man being called a n****r any more than I want to see an Irishman being called a p***y, or a Scotsman be called a j**k. You seem to think the later two insults are perfectly acceptable, thus you believe Irish and Scots to be inferior to black people?

The truly ironic thing is there are actually black groups out there who OPENLY claim white people are genetically inferior, there have been threads about it right here on ATS. I can go on YouTube now and find videos of black people scream F**K WHITE PEOPLE! Remember the recent kidnapping? If you want to stand up against bigotry and racism...then do it properly. If you focus all of your efforts on one single group you're positively discriminating against them. You're still separating them from everyone else. Can you honestly not see that?

Racism will exist for for as long as people like you make that initial distinction between races - your whole argument is rooted in racism and you can't even see it.

So don't project your nonsense on to me, calling you those things won't help me or you, I think I've made a far more reasoned and considered argument than someone who would simply resort to petty namecalling. Maybe you're judging me by your own standards...what names would you like to call me? You can say what you like, call me a jock or paddy if you like...I honestly don't care, I won't cry about it or report you to the mods. You've gone out of your way to show that not only do you harbour bizarre racist tendencies, but that you're somehow completely and totally ignorant to their existence...so I'll not take it personally for you seem not to know or realise what you actually are.

So no...I won't call you a c**t, nor will I call you a n****r - hell, I don't even know what colour or race you are! that's how absurd that post was. But I will call you a bigot, and a racist... because you've shown us all that you are. It's not important how that racism manifests...as you seem to think - in a positive way. Yes, your message SEEMS positive on first glance...but on closer inspection it's based entirely on making a distinction between groups of people based purely on colour and/or race...so well done.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
a reply to: Tiger5

I don't want to call you any names, where did that come from? Why is that even relevant? The point is, and it's quite an obvious point, you seem reasonably intelligent, it really is a shame it has to be pointed out to you...the point is the outrage seems only to exist for certain groups.

I think I've made my position quite clear with regards to insults, abuse, bigotry...you seem to be choosing to deliberately not see that and continue to attempt to try and project these negative qualities onto me based on nothing...nothing except that I haven't agreed with you 100%.

So we can both agree that eradicating bigotry and racism is a good thing...and we both acknowledge and agree that racism and abuse is applied to all people, all races, nationalities, colours. So tell me, why defend one group, or campaign on behalf of one group and willfully ignore others that you, by your own admission - acknowledge the existence of?

This very concept is inherently bigoted...there are two sides to your bigotry. There's the obvious, negative bigotry where you have decided that certain other groups are less deserving of this worthy cause. Then there's the positive bigotry where you've decided another group are somehow more deserving.

The ultimate point is that your position is bigoted and fundamentally flawed. No I don't want to call you any names - I'll tell you what, it's you that wants me to want to call you names. You are absolutely, 100% hoping that I'll give you something....aaaaanything, that you can use to paint me in an unfavourable light simply because I don't stand alongside you on this.

Yes, I would love to see the end of bigotry because it isn't something I want to partake in as either giver or receiver. I don't want to see a black man being called a n****r any more than I want to see an Irishman being called a p***y, or a Scotsman be called a j**k. You seem to think the later two insults are perfectly acceptable, thus you believe Irish and Scots to be inferior to black people?

The truly ironic thing is there are actually black groups out there who OPENLY claim white people are genetically inferior, there have been threads about it right here on ATS. I can go on YouTube now and find videos of black people scream F**K WHITE PEOPLE! Remember the recent kidnapping? If you want to stand up against bigotry and racism...then do it properly. If you focus all of your efforts on one single group you're positively discriminating against them. You're still separating them from everyone else. Can you honestly not see that?

Racism will exist for for as long as people like you make that initial distinction between races - your whole argument is rooted in racism and you can't even see it.

So don't project your nonsense on to me, calling you those things won't help me or you, I think I've made a far more reasoned and considered argument than someone who would simply resort to petty namecalling. Maybe you're judging me by your own standards...what names would you like to call me? You can say what you like, call me a jock or paddy if you like...I honestly don't care, I won't cry about it or report you to the mods. You've gone out of your way to show that not only do you harbour bizarre racist tendencies, but that you're somehow completely and totally ignorant to their existence...so I'll not take it personally for you seem not to know or realise what you actually are.

So no...I won't call you a c**t, nor will I call you a n****r - hell, I don't even know what colour or race you are! that's how absurd that post was. But I will call you a bigot, and a racist... because you've shown us all that you are. It's not important how that racism manifests...as you seem to think - in a positive way. Yes, your message SEEMS positive on first glance...but on closer inspection it's based entirely on making a distinction between groups of people based purely on colour and/or race...so well done.

lofl

originally posted by: Tiger5
I think the 500Ib gorilla in the middle of the room is what do we want to do? Do we want to go back in time regarding social justice (a very conservative concept) or do we want to move forward and continue the present trajectory based on current social justice?

The craziest thing is you appear to want to fix something that was a problem in the 1960's, but is less of a problem now.

And then you make out like what you actually want is progress...you know what, based on the crap I addressed in my last response and the junk I'm responding to now I've concluded you're either severely warped i the head or you're a troll.

Normally, I'd convince myself you were a troll because it's easier to deal with the notion that trolls actually exist. I'm going with the former theory on this one because you seem to genuinely believe the nonsense you're talking in this thread.

You're worse than a troll...you're dishonest, disingenous and somewhat twisted. I respect trolls more than you.

a reply to: veracity

That response wasn't much better than calling someone a name...you can't argue or dispute what I said in any way, shape or form because the evidence wouldn't support such a fallacy.

So you should have said nothing...but couldn't help yourself and responded with something asinine and pointless.

Thanks.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

it was meant to say that what you wrote is basically a joke and i was laughing bc it was funny. IT does not warrant nor deserve more of a response from myself or any other intelligent poster on this board.

a reply to: veracity

Can you explain why you think it's a joke without coming across as either stupid or racist for us, please?

I reckon this will be the punchline...

You know what, I'll save you the bother.

You can't...you responded with an inane, one-liner because you can't address or rebuke what I said.

You responded with a one-liner because you got triggered when faced with the actual truth, that it's the whingers and SJW's that are the racist ones. You responded with that lame 'lofl' because it was sufficient enough to trick your own mind into thinking you actually responded with a logical argument when you didn't.

You failed to make an effort because you knew it was futile...and went on to make a poor excuse while at the same time tried to profess your self-assessed and proclaimed intelligence.

Your lofl argument was probably the most intelligent thing you've said in this thread...that doesn't make you smart it just means that all the the things you said prior to that were less intelligent than 'lofl'

There...you don't have to respond any more, save you having to try and convince us and yourself directly that you're intelligent.