Churches increasingly feel need to offer sanctuary to undocumented migrants

a reply to: windword

In case you've not noticed, I'm not Jesus.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: FHomerK


Its a sign of desperation. Dragging the church into this. This isnt even a civil rights issue. No its not really.

I couldn't agree more.

a reply to: Logarock

Why is everything a sign of desperation these days?

The churches chose a side. Nobody brought them into it.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Logarock

Why is everything a sign of desperation these days?

The churches chose a side. Nobody brought them into it.

I bet...if you dig deep.... you might just find this as a maneuver to bring in new parishioners.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: queenofswords

The ones being sought and deported are the ones that have committed crimes other than illegal entry.

I don't think God would approve of his houses of worship being used to house criminals that have raped, murdered, thieved, and dealt drugs.

Old Testament law sets up Sanctuary Cities specifically for murderers!

Number 35:6
Six of the towns you give the Levites will be cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone may flee.

Actually it was specifically for those who had unintentionally killed someone, not for murderers.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Psalms 27:4-5
One thing I ask of the LORD, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.

5 For in the day of trouble he will keep me safe in his dwelling; he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle and set me high upon a rock.

The right of asylum (sometimes called right of political asylum, from the ancient Greek word ἄσυλον[1][2]) is an ancient juridical concept, under which a person persecuted by their own country may be protected by another sovereign authority, such as another country or church official, who in medieval times could offer sanctuary. This right was already recognized by the Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Hebrews, from whom it was adopted into Western tradition. René Descartes fled to the Netherlands, Voltaire to England, and Hobbes to France, because each state offered protection to persecuted foreigners.
en.wikipedia.org...

How can a civilized society have no sanctuary or refuge for its most vulnerable? When there is nowhere else to turn, the church/tabernacle/mosque/etc., steps in to provide shelter.

What would Jesus do?

Thank you, I was looking for this information when you posted. Obviously, a lot of so called Christians in this thread, that have failed to read the book.

a reply to: FHomerK

Man, now I am kind of sad. I thought everyone already knew the answer to this one. Money. These 'religious' groups are getting paid a lot of money to bring these people in. I use to believe that as their congregations are cliff diving in population, they are simply trying to find new members. But that didn't make any sense since these people don't convert and they probably view these organization as being weak for bringing them here in the first place.

I wonder how many illegal immigrants would be brought in if the religious group had to pay 'x' amount for every single person that comes here under their banner? I would say this corruption would stop overnight.

What happens if we are actually doing more harm than good. What if these people, that are willing to come here to escape whatever they are leaving behind, are the strong ones of the communities they are leaving? So if they would have stayed and fought for what they believed in, they would have benefited their entire community/city/state/country. Now by tucking tail and running, nothing from their native origin will change and we are directly responsible.

If any church is harboring a criminal (other than illegal entry), ICE should walk right in there and take them. Then, perhaps they should consider charges against the church personnel for aiding and abetting.

a reply to: FHomerK

So?

It still isn't a sign of desperation. It's business as usual.

originally posted by: FHomerK

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Logarock

Why is everything a sign of desperation these days?

The churches chose a side. Nobody brought them into it.

I bet...if you dig deep.... you might just find this as a maneuver to bring in new parishioners.

Only that say most Mexicans are christians of some denomination and brought their churches with them.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Psalms 27:4-5
One thing I ask of the LORD, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.

5 For in the day of trouble he will keep me safe in his dwelling; he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle and set me high upon a rock.

The right of asylum (sometimes called right of political asylum, from the ancient Greek word ἄσυλον[1][2]) is an ancient juridical concept, under which a person persecuted by their own country may be protected by another sovereign authority, such as another country or church official, who in medieval times could offer sanctuary. This right was already recognized by the Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Hebrews, from whom it was adopted into Western tradition. René Descartes fled to the Netherlands, Voltaire to England, and Hobbes to France, because each state offered protection to persecuted foreigners.
en.wikipedia.org...

How can a civilized society have no sanctuary or refuge for its most vulnerable? When there is nowhere else to turn, the church/tabernacle/mosque/etc., steps in to provide shelter.

What would Jesus do?

Thank you, I was looking for this information when you posted. Obviously, a lot of so called Christians in this thread, that have failed to read the book.

Jesus told us to render unto Caesar what is Caesar.

And in the case of the US, immigration law is Caesar's. This is, as we are constantly and loudly reminded by people like the OP, not a Christian nation, so Jesus would have counciled us to render unto Caesar, not to break Caesar's laws.

Those who constantly cite the OT passages on refugees forget that they were given at a time when the Hebrews were a sovereign people and able to self-govern, but there are still also clear laws, rules and expectations for refugees too. So even the Hebrews had their immigration standards that they enforced if you wanted to take asylum among them.

Please don't forget that we are talking about churches who are not self-governing but exist under the legal protection of the US government and that the refugees in question are here in violation of US immigration law thus having broken the standards expected of them as refugees/immigrants.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Logarock

Why is everything a sign of desperation these days?

The churches chose a side. Nobody brought them into it.

Sorry, we'll simply have to disagree. And frankly, even if you are correct, I could not care less. Religion is a crock, and the idea of wanted criminals taking shelter in a church and being protected by that church is a big old steamy and odoriferous pot of crock.

originally posted by: queenofswords
If any church is harboring a criminal (other than illegal entry), ICE should walk right in there and take them. Then, perhaps they should consider charges against the church personnel for aiding and abetting.

So you a perfectly ok with invalidating a tradition that dates back 1000's of years, to satisfy your little snowflake goal of ridding the US of brown people? And to jail church people, damnit this has really gotten out of control.

a reply to: FHomerK

Disagree about what? I just said that even if it was about getting more members then, what is desperate about that?

That is what churches are always doing and they do it on their own. Nobody is dragging them into it.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Psalms 27:4-5
One thing I ask of the LORD, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.

5 For in the day of trouble he will keep me safe in his dwelling; he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle and set me high upon a rock.

The right of asylum (sometimes called right of political asylum, from the ancient Greek word ἄσυλον[1][2]) is an ancient juridical concept, under which a person persecuted by their own country may be protected by another sovereign authority, such as another country or church official, who in medieval times could offer sanctuary. This right was already recognized by the Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Hebrews, from whom it was adopted into Western tradition. René Descartes fled to the Netherlands, Voltaire to England, and Hobbes to France, because each state offered protection to persecuted foreigners.
en.wikipedia.org...

How can a civilized society have no sanctuary or refuge for its most vulnerable? When there is nowhere else to turn, the church/tabernacle/mosque/etc., steps in to provide shelter.

What would Jesus do?

Thank you, I was looking for this information when you posted. Obviously, a lot of so called Christians in this thread, that have failed to read the book.

Jesus told us to render unto Caesar what is Caesar.

And in the case of the US, immigration law is Caesar's. This is, as we are constantly and loudly reminded by people like the OP, not a Christian nation, so Jesus would have counciled us to render unto Caesar, not to break Caesar's laws.

Those who constantly cite the OT passages on refugees forget that they were given at a time when the Hebrews were a sovereign people and able to self-govern, but there are still also clear laws, rules and expectations for refugees too. So even the Hebrews had their immigration standards that they enforced if you wanted to take asylum among them.

Please don't forget that we are talking about churches who are not self-governing but exist under the legal protection of the US government and that the refugees in question are here in violation of US immigration law thus having broken the standards expected of them as refugees/immigrants.

However the tradition of sanctuary and asylum far predate the United States. The idea was to allow time for negotiation, to see that others did not get harmed. I find it hard to believe that people that claim to follow Christ cannot understand this concept.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: queenofswords
If any church is harboring a criminal (other than illegal entry), ICE should walk right in there and take them. Then, perhaps they should consider charges against the church personnel for aiding and abetting.

So you a perfectly ok with invalidating a tradition that dates back 1000's of years, to satisfy your little snowflake goal of ridding the US of brown people? And to jail church people, damnit this has really gotten out of control.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No, it has not.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Well, based off of your statements, we should never have given women equal rights, and we'd still have slaves.

Yeah, that's a world I want to live in. YEAH!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: queenofswords
If any church is harboring a criminal (other than illegal entry), ICE should walk right in there and take them. Then, perhaps they should consider charges against the church personnel for aiding and abetting.

So you a perfectly ok with invalidating a tradition that dates back 1000's of years, to satisfy your little snowflake goal of ridding the US of brown people? And to jail church people, damnit this has really gotten out of control.

It has nothing to do with brown people. If they are criminals (other than illegal entry), then I don't care if they are white, black, brown, yellow, red, or purple. Church people are aiders and abetters if they harbor criminals. We won't even talk about "church people" and their holy "virtues". Some of the biggest sleaze bags I've known were so-called "church people" hiding behind their pulpits and buildings.

a reply to: daskakik



Yepp. I disagree.

dis·a·gree
ˌdisəˈɡrē/
verb
1.
have or express a different opinion.
"no one was willing to disagree with him"
synonyms: take issue with, challenge, contradict, oppose; More
2.
(of statements or accounts) be inconsistent or fail to correspond.
"results that disagree with the findings reported so far"
synonyms: differ, be dissimilar, be different, vary, diverge; More

Matthew 25:34-40

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

James 1:27

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

1 John 3:17-18

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth."