Churches increasingly feel need to offer sanctuary to undocumented migrants

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: FHomerK

Dude, folks around here know that I'm a rabid atheist.

I'm quoting Bible at some of our more religious members because I love to see the conniptions to make it mean something other than what it says.

I don't agree with the concept of "sanctuary" ... sometimes I like to play Devil's Advocate.

You know ... kinda what you're trying to do.

Right? And I didn't last even two hours!! But, I'm ever so grateful that you, windword, BubbaJoe, and Abysha have chimed in.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You think maybe, just maybe, the person who started the thread may have been championing simple human compassion rather than advocating for ignoring the laws?

It's not the churches responsibility to enforce the laws. It is, however, a tacit if not explicit responsibility that they help those in need ...

Couldn't it be that, for some, the sense of compassion overwhelms the sense of legalism?

Every. Time. Thank you.
Simple human compassion. That was all. Applauding the efforts of those few brave souls who understand what JC meant (also all the other sages). The Golden Rule.

I think that, lamentably, they just see my name attached to a thread and get all mouth-foamy and sweaty.....without even reading.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Except God has told them to follow the law. It's not an and/or situation. Follow the law, send them back, and offer them support back home.

I think your god sucks rocks

I like the god that these churches follow better - I think they get it

Which god is that? The one who says help criminals evade authorities and commit crimes?

Are you saying the only way to help people is for them to come to America illegally? You didn't actually say what was wrong with sending them back and giving them aid in their home country.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
God hates lawbreakers seems like - more than he hates bad laws

So any law that does not allow any person into any country they choose is a bad law? The only good law is one of "no borders"?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This thread was a bright spot for me Buzzy :-)

How Jews and Christians in This Texas Town Are Helping Muslims Whose Mosque Burned Down

American Muslims raise money to repair vandalized Jewish cemetery

NYPD Won't Help Deport Immigrants As Trump Admin Ramps Up Enforcement

New York Police Department Commissioner James O'Neill on Wednesday indicated that the department will ignore new Department of Homeland Security memos that increase the number of undocumented immigrants prioritized for deportation and call on local law enforcement to help federal agents.

In an internal memo, O'Neill reminded officers of the department's policies on undocumented immigrants and tells officers not to carry out federal immigration enforcement.

So much more out there - so, this thread will need updating :-)

We're either for each other - or we're for The State

Some rules were meant to be broken

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
What about all the homeless people in the US?

What are churches doing about that problem?

I imagine those same 400-800 are doing things about that problem. I know of LOTS of churches (in my area there is one every half mile, sometimes more than one!) that do have clothing drives, and rummage sales, and don't go about shouting and condemning people.

Also on my very block are people who came here as refugees, as defectors, as the descendants of slaves, of despotic countries --

and I live right next door to a church.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Bubba, I appreciate you so much! And Gryph, I know --- here I am defending churches!

See, that's what so many don't realize about me. I am pretty even-handed. Being attacked right out of the gate is par for the course. But then, there are people like you and others who actually like to talk things out.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

*redacted*

ahem.

Dude, I am a liberal. I am a Social Worker. I am a volunteer. I think everyone needs to have a house and food and clothing and an education and health care. There is not one cell in my body that has not fought for that very thing. Did I ever say anything about not helping people right here? I don't see nationality or ethnicity or skin color as a reason to deny anyone the basic necessities of life.




NO. I never said that. Because that is who I am.

A helper. A social worker. A compassionate human who sees that we are all connected. The Golden Rule.
Meanwhile, in domestic news, our legislature (of KS) just passed a bill thought to be dead in the water that allows for EXPANSION OF MEDICAID!! After all these long years!

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

Its helping people who are in need of it at the moment. Of course helping in their own home country would be ideal, but what if bombs are being dropped on their home country, what if they have no freedom of religion in their home country, what if they get raped in their home country.

What you are implying is ideal and only happens in a perfect world, we can dream. But compassion is very important.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Which god is that?

Whichever god supports Man's inhumanity to man sounds like a crappy excuse for a god to me

Are you saying the only way to help people is for them to come to America illegally? You didn't actually say what was wrong with sending them back and giving them aid in their home country.

When our new fascist pig lays out a plan for helping people in their home country - you let me know

Meantime - this is happening now. If we're actually going to address the problems that come with illegal immigration - then let's do that. The way it's happening now is inhumane and unacceptable

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

Its helping people who are in need of it at the moment. Of course helping in their own home country would be ideal, but what if bombs are being dropped on their home country, what if they have no freedom of religion in their home country, what if they get raped in their home country.

What you are implying is ideal and only happens in a perfect world, we can dream. But compassion is very important.

So everyone from certain countries HAS to be allowed into the US?
If you don't like where you came from, change it.

Where did I say don't help them in the moment? Help them every step of the way as they get deported and keep helping them once they get back home.

Help =/= Opening my door and letting people live in my house. It's a false argument.
Compassion =/= Opening my door and letting people live in my house. It's a false argument.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Which god is that?

Whichever god supports Man's inhumanity to man sounds like a crappy excuse for a god to me

Are you saying the only way to help people is for them to come to America illegally? You didn't actually say what was wrong with sending them back and giving them aid in their home country.

When our new fascist pig lays out a plan for helping people in their home country - you let me know

Meantime - this is happening now. If we're actually going to address the problems that come with illegal immigration - then let's do that. The way it's happening now is inhumane and unacceptable

If they don't like the country they came from they should change it. Now what does that have to do with God? Are you suggesting churches need to change ruling governments? You seem to be switching from the church to Trump, so I really have no clue what you are answering. Or is the church leader a fascist pig?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard on here.

Dude, I am a liberal. I am also a Social Worker. And a volunteer. I think everyone needs to have a house and food and clothing and an education and health care. There is not one cell in my body that has not fought for that very thing. Did I ever say anything about not helping people right here?


NO. I never said that. Because that is who I am.

A helper. A social worker. A compassionate human who sees that we are all connected. The Golden Rule.

Awesome, I'm a social worker too, and not just a job title, it's my actual degree. Compassionately send them home. You literally refused to address my point. Compassion =/= open borders. False argument.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If they don't like the country they came from they should change it. Now what does that have to do with God? Are you suggesting churches need to change ruling governments? You seem to be switching from the church to Trump, so I really have no clue what you are answering. Or is the church leader a fascist pig?

If you want to pretend you can't follow along - that's up to you

:-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

So I have to follow along as you move the goal posts and change topics?

Just because I can follow along doesn't mean you shouldn't stay on topic.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's my actual degree too! A Master's level! It was my "job" for 30 years --- and it remains my "calling!"

So - now ---- you having shared that makes it even more bizarre that you would deny the women and children and men who are the victims of NATO bombing from having refuge....the people who want to work, to provide for their families, the people who are fleeing famine NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE FROM --- or anyone who doesn't speak English and isn't a "Christian."

dp

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Just because I can follow along doesn't mean you shouldn't stay on topic.

I am on topic. No goal posts were moved

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No one except you is moving the goalposts, friend.
The thread is about churches offering sanctuary and common decency to refugees. It isn't about "why are they cutting Social Programs?"

That would be a very worthy thread, though ---- I encourage you to start it.

Because I don't hear Trump doing ANYTHING right now to ensure that "no one will fall through the cracks" like he promised on the campaign trail.