Should President Trump end the War on Drugs?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: underwerks

Actually there are a lot of good reasons to legalize heroin, or at least decriminalize it enough to get rid of the parts of the addiction that make it as dangerous as it is. The majority of bad things people associate with heroin addiction like overdoses and the spread of infectious disease are a product of the illegality of heroin.

As stated in my first post, decriminalise all the drugs as far as possession is concerned. Legalising for recreational use however, is another story.

There is no benefit to Heroin. We have better synthetic drugs for what uses it did have, and on he recreational side, well we know the science of what heroin does to you. Even a cleaner version of that drug would serve no real purpose in today's world.

There hasn't been one fatal overdose at a safe injection site in the history of safe injection sites around the world.

And I am more safe sites as well, as long as they are coupled with available treatment programs to help people kick their addiction.

But a common sense drug policy, a rational one as you put it, would realise that favoring people's freedom, over the general welfare of society at large is wrong. ONLY however, when the science shows you that without a doubt, that there is no basis for having something available to the general public such as Heroin.

So I agree in principle, but that's still not a good reason to let people buy Heroin at a pharmacy.

~Tenth

Heroin users when not having to deal with the hustle of it being illegal live long, and productive lives. Look at the heroin maintenance program in the U.K. for an example.

From a pharmacological standpoint, heroin (diacetylmorphine) is surprisingly not as harmful as people think it is. Alcohol is way worse for the body, physically and in terms of withdrawal. You can die from alcohol withdrawal, not so with heroin.

I realize it has a huge stigma attached to it, but I believe we should do what's best for the addict and society, and in this case they're the same thing.

You can't have decriminalization without legalization of sale. By doing that you only empower and enrich the criminals who sell it. Who in theory you're fighting against.

originally posted by: musicismagic

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Shall we start with suicide because you can't get a job at Mc Donalds for the rest of your life with a MJ charge.

Is that really true?

Yes, I almost committed suicide over it because I wouldn't do illegal stuff to survive after that point.

I had a garden, and my neighbor made rape-a-hol in his garage. My garden was deemed serious enough of a unapproved plant to try and wreck my employment chances for life.

Ironically, I am now making 6 figures because of it, so f em, I went my own way and almost thank em now.

Others wont be as lucky as I was, or have a family support system I did to keep them from becoming cattle for the prison system.

originally posted by: Mandroid7

originally posted by: musicismagic

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Shall we start with suicide because you can't get a job at Mc Donalds for the rest of your life with a MJ charge.

Is that really true?

Yes, I almost committed suicide over it because I wouldn't do illegal stuff to survive after that point.

I had a garden, and my neighbor made rape-a-hol in his garage. My garden was deemed serious enough of a unapproved plant to try and wreck my employment chances for life.

Ironically, I am now making 6 figures because of it, so f em, I went my own way and almost thank em now.

Others wont be as lucky as I was, or have a family support system I did to keep them from becoming cattle for the prison system.

I'm happy to hear you are still with us and more important, you 've got the spirit of a happy individual. Congrats!

Trump is about Law and Order. Ending the war on drugs is a leftist agenda.

a reply to: musicismagic

Thanks buddy, appreciate it.

Trying to fight the good fight.

It scares me to see kids that will be dealing with these same issues as they progress through high school and college.

Your life, in a free country shouldn't hinge on getting caught ingesting something into your body that someone else disagrees with.

Caught=done vs not caught=could be the president is insane.

originally posted by: Mark08
Trump is about Law and Order. Ending the war on drugs is a leftist agenda.

He is also a businessman, so I'm not attacking him on this yet.


He will weigh the profitability vs cost.

Law enforcement is sick of filling jails over MJ, and he likes law enforcement, not lawmakers so much.

He would be the bold pres to do it, Clinton surely wouldn't have.

I think his stance was Federal legalization and leave decision up to the state, but don't quote me yet.

Trump is a business man, and as an increasingly conservative business man he will institute a program
of private run prisons for drug offences with his new found conservative religious right supporters as the
owners, guards, stockholders, all under Session's New and energized War on Drugs task force.

Business will always win out over civil rights. Believe me....you have been warned!

During the Trump administration, Private prisons will be a growth industry. Invest now....

Seriously, if it doesn't harm anybody else, make it legal.

People should have the freedom to destroy their own lives. There is violence because there's laws against personal choices.

#landofthefree

50 years of drug policy wiped out. Let's look back at its' achievements.

Completely demolished black communities.
Propped up black markets.
Provoked violence in poverty stricken parts of the world.
Failed to provide any measures to help end addiction.

Judging by the thread, it has also manipulated the people into stigmatizing everything in association with these illicit substances. To make matters worse, most of these people are quick to trust anything a pharmacist will give them. Why so many people are offering up an opinion for something that they have no understanding of is contradictory to ATS' creed.

Somebody should end the War on drugs because it is a war on the people and the
constitution.

Not that either one of these things has ever really mattered to any one in power.

It would be amazing if trump did anything to undue the war on drugs and I would be happy if he did.

But I'm not holding my breath.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm curious about this stance? Do we really even need a reason to have MJ illegal as a recreational substance?

We have alcohol, which by all accounts is very harmful for a host of different reasons, some even argue worse than MJ would be. Colorado has shown little to no effect really after a few years of legalization.

I'm just curious about where your'e coming from.

~Tenth

I think while many people can enjoy things without a problem, overall we would be better off without tobacco and alcohol. But they are here. Why add more to the list?

MOST people can enjoy MJ and be fine, not all can.It should not be criminal though.

a in a truly free society, we should need reasons for something to be criminalized. Not the other way around.

I'm not from the US but instead from the Uk the war on drugs here has been a pointless waste of cash, cash that could go back into our NHS. Dealers get raided yet are selling again as soon as they are bailed, some I know keep a "just in case I'm raided stash" so they can get back to selling the same day

Iv been a cannabis user since I was 16 (over half my life now) with no problems, I'm a full time worker, home owner, happily married with 1 daughter, I'm a totally normal person (well almost lol). I used to be a heavy cigarette smoker but used cannabis to fight the nicotine addiction which helped alot

In 2011 I was diagnosed with an illness that left me riddled with arthritis and osteoporosis. The medication I take for pain is worthless high dosages make me vomit, the doctors answer was to put me on anti vomit meds but they've caused me to have stomach ulcers yay fun.
In 2013 I increased my cannabis dosage to 6-8 grams a day and it is the only way I can work full time, from 2011-2013 I only used prescription meds and almost lost my job as I couldn't always make it to work or would need to leave early.
Roughly 6 months after i started a higher dose of cannabis my boss asked if my illness had calmed down as I hadn't had a day off in a while, I told him the truth and he told me "well id never have guessed you was smoking weed, keep it up if it helping this much" although i had to promise not to be off my face during work times but they will let me have a little at lunch time if I'm in pain

The thing I hate the most is that IM a criminal for trying to self medicate, I have to go to drug dealers to get my meds who are only in it for the cash so quality isn't always the best and if I try to grow my own I could be arrested as a cultivator even if I never ever sell a single gram. Luckily most police in the UK turn a blind eye to it as long as you haven't got a ton of plants going and aren't sat in the park with your biggest bong blowing clouds at kids lol

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: gmoneystunt

Yes, the majority of possession infractions should be reduced to misdemeanours with no jail time for non violent offenders. Jack up the sentences for traffickers of narcotics that hold no medicinal value, as in Cocaine and Heroin etc.

Completely remove the restrictions from MJ, create a framework for selling/growing it for recreation as well as medicinally.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm curious about this stance? Do we really even need a reason to have MJ illegal as a recreational substance?

We have alcohol, which by all accounts is very harmful for a host of different reasons, some even argue worse than MJ would be. Colorado has shown little to no effect really after a few years of legalization.

I'm just curious about where your'e coming from.

~Tenth

Alcohol causes more harm in the world than all other drugs combined... Just an FYI.. But the way reality is distorted by the media makes it easy to forget, or to not even know.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: snowspirit

While I see no reason to legalize MJ for recreational use, it should be decriminalized for smaller amounts and legal for medical use, with stiff fines for people abusing medicinal use.

Why?

I can go eat a cactus, and it's legal.

why the disparity?

And hey, I'll shout you a beer if you come up with a reasonable argument.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I think while many people can enjoy things without a problem, overall we would be better off without tobacco and alcohol. But they are here. Why add more to the list?

Has keeping it illegal prevented people use it? Or has it simply kept criminals out of people who are otherwise decent law abiding citizens?

Adding more?

no... it's not making more. You cannot legislate vice. and this current situation simply ruins lives, despite the average person being able to use something for recreational value.

We have people jumping out of perfectly good planes, and off bridges. I think more harm comes from that, than imbibing a plant with zero death toll.

Congress needs to change the law.
The President approves the change in a law, but Congress needs to initiate it and process the change first.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Congress needs to change the law.
The President approves the change in a law, but Congress needs to initiate it and process the change first.

Not gonna happen. We need to keep those private prisons filled with nonviolent stoners so the corps. can reap even more profits at taxpayers expense!

www.newyorker.com...

www.thedailybeast.com...

What sweet irony it would be to see some Trump supporters locked up on drug charges.

You reap what you sow....

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Can you tell me why it should not be legal for recreational use?

a reply to: Mark08

I think the Libertarian Party would disagree with you.

a reply to: gmoneystunt

yes, end that sh1t and let people do what they want to themselves as long as it doesnt hurt others.

then take all those resources and money and start the war against pizza, violent sex crimes,abductions, , and the sex trade with minors.