The case of the missing diamonds

So came across this, don't think anyone has posted it, in fact its suspicious by its absence,
No Clovis comet

For the second time in 10 years, Daulton has carefully reviewed the evidence, and found no evidence for a spike in nanodiamond concentration in Younger Dryas sediments. Because nanodiamonds are the strongest piece of evidence for the impact hypothesis, their absence effectively discredits it.

So I guess some of us knew this anyway because of this
www.divediscover.whoi.edu...
Unless its coming round every 100,000 years or so...

Even the name now looks a bit stupid

The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis or Clovis comet hypothesis originally proposed that a large air burst or earth impact of a comet or comets from outer space initiated the Younger Dryas cold period about 12,900 BP calibrated (10,900 14C uncalibrated) years ago. The hypothesis has been largely contradicted by research showing that most of the conclusions cannot be repeated by other scientists, and criticized because of misinterpretation of data and the lack of confirmatory evidence

Can't post images because ATS wants to infect my computer with ads

a reply to: Marduk

Interesting Thread! Gonna keep an eye on this one!

Here ya go. The image first seen at the first link You dropped in here...


Second Image...

a reply to: SyxPak

Thankyou

a reply to: Marduk

You're quite Welcome!

a reply to: Marduk

It hit the icepack. I thought this was known...

originally posted by: gription
a reply to: Marduk

It hit the icepack. I thought this was known...

I thought it was known that it airburst above North America, if it had hit the ice pack most of its energy would have been absorbed.
it didn't exist, the evidence supposedly consisted of

Population decline among the Paleoindians

A study of Paleoindian demography found no evidence of a population decline among the Paleoindians at 12,900 ± 100 BP, which was inconsistent with predictions of an impact event. They suggested that the hypothesis would probably need to be revised. There is also no evidence of continent-wide wildfires at any time during terminal Pleistocene deglaciation, along with evidence that most larger wildfires had a human origin, which calls into question the origin of the "black mat." Iridium, magnetic minerals, microspherules, carbon, and nanodiamonds are all subject to differing interpretations as to their nature and origin, and may be explained in many cases by purely terrestrial or non-catastrophic factors

All extinctions caused by the impact occurred simultaneously

If it is assumed that the hypothesis supposes that all effects of the putative impact on Earth's biota would have been brief, all extinctions caused by the impact should have occurred simultaneously. However, there is much evidence that the megafaunal extinctions that occurred across northern Eurasia, North America and South America at the end of the Pleistocene were not synchronous. The extinctions in South America appear to have occurred at least 400 years after the extinctions in North America. The extinction of woolly mammoths in Siberia also appears to have occurred later than in North America.[35] A greater disparity in extinction timings is apparent in island megafaunal extinctions that lagged nearby continental extinctions by thousands of years; examples include the survival of woolly mammoths on Wrangel Island, Russia, until 3700 BP, and the survival of ground sloths in the Antilles,[39] the Caribbean, until 4700 cal BP. The Australian megafaunal extinctions occurred approximately 30,000 years earlier than the hypothetical Younger Dryas event

Carbon spherules and Nanodiamonds

Scientists have asserted that the carbon spherules originated as fungal structures and/or insect fecal pellets, and contained modern contaminants and that the claimed nanodiamonds are actually misidentified graphene and graphene/graphane oxide aggregates. An analysis of a similar Younger Dryas boundary layer in Belgium yielded carbon crystalline structures such as nanodiamonds, but the authors concluded that also did not show unique evidence for a bolide impact.[44] Researchers have also have not found any extraterrestrial platinum group metals in the boundary layer which would be inconsistent with the hypothesized impact event. Further independent analysis was unable to confirm prior claims of magnetic particles and microspherules, concluding that there was no evidence for a Younger Dryas impact event

Black mats

Research published in 2012 has shown that the so-called "black mats" are easily explained by typical earth processes in wetland environments. The study of black mats, that are common in prehistorical wetland deposits which represent shallow marshlands, that were from 6000 to 40,000 years ago in the southwestern USA and Atacama Desert in Chile, showed elevated concentrations of iridium and magnetic sediments, magnetic spherules and titanomagnetite grains. It was suggested that because these markers are found within or at the base of black mats, irrespective of age or location, suggests that these markers arise from processes common to wetland systems, and probably not as a result of catastrophic bolide impacts

So it now has no supporting evidence left..

a reply to: Marduk

You can quote any source you like. The data trends towards a glacial impact. Show me your data.

originally posted by: gription
a reply to: Marduk

You can quote any source you like. The data trends towards a glacial impact. Show me your data.

The links are all in the OP whereas the only supporting data for your thesis consists of 4 sentences spread over 2 posts and consisting entirely of personal anecdotes. Perhaps you could show something that supports your own assertions? Something more recent than the recently updated data in the OP would be great because the whole point of "new" data is to show the most up to date information possible. So if you are posting a link from 2016 or earlier, it's an outdated anachronism by its very nature.

originally posted by: gription
a reply to: Marduk

You can quote any source you like. The data trends towards a glacial impact. Show me your data.

Which data would that be, you mean the claimed data which was completely debunked years ago, which I listed and linked to above, do you happen to know why it was called the "Younger Dryas impact hypothesis" and not the "Younger Dryas impact theory", do you actually know the difference between a scientific theory and hypothesis ?

A scientific hypothesis is the initial building block in the scientific method. Many describe it as an “educated guess,” based on prior knowledge and observation

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.

So the data wasn't good enough to get it past the opening stages and contrary to what you think you believe as its an unproven hypothesis then the onus is on the believer to prove it. That would be you.

No surprise that it's dead. I talked this over with several paleontologists at the time it was proposed (I didn't think that it was supported since the die-offs were not size specific or econiche specific) and they agreed that the evidence wasn't there.

You would have had to have species-specific fragments that zoomed through the atmosphere and killed off all the members of a species while leaving animals the same size and with the same needs and diets alive in the same area. Killing off the paleocoyotes but leaving the wolves (same size) alive. Killing off North American camels but leaving alive elk, deer, etc.

originally posted by: Byrd
No surprise that it's dead. .

And its not the only thing
www.amazon.co.uk...

a reply to: Marduk

WOW! From Your link here is, in part, this!;
"...The evidence revealed in this book shows beyond reasonable doubt that an advanced civilization that flourished during the Ice Age was destroyed in the global cataclysms between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

Near the end of the last Ice Age 12,800 years ago, a giant comet that had entered the solar system from deep space thousands of years earlier, broke into multiple fragments. Some of these struck the Earth causing a global cataclysm on a scale unseen since the extinction of the dinosaurs. At least eight of the fragments hit the North American ice cap, while further fragments hit the northern European ice cap.

The impacts, from comet fragments a mile wide approaching at more than 60,000 miles an hour, generated huge amounts of heat which instantly liquidized millions of square kilometers of ice, destabilizing the Earth's crust and causing the global Deluge that is remembered in myths all around the world.

A second series of impacts, equally devastating, causing further cataclysmic flooding, occurred 11,600 years ago, the exact date that Plato gives for the destruction and submergence of Atlantis.

But there were survivors - known to later cultures by names such as 'the Sages', 'the Magicians', 'the Shining Ones', and 'the Mystery Teachers of Heaven'. They travelled the world in their great ships doing all in their power to keep the spark of civilization burning. They settled at key locations - Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, Baalbek in the Lebanon, Giza in Egypt, ancient Sumer, Mexico, Peru and across the Pacific where a huge pyramid has recently been discovered in Indonesia. Everywhere they went these 'Magicians of the Gods' brought with them the memory of a time when mankind had fallen out of harmony with the universe and paid a heavy price.

A memory and a warning to the future... For the comet that wrought such destruction between 12,800 and 11,600 years may not be done with us yet. Astronomers believe that a 20-mile wide 'dark' fragment of the original giant comet remains hidden within its debris stream and threatens the Earth. An astronomical message encoded at Gobekli Tepe, and in the Sphinx and the pyramids of Egypt,warns that the 'Great Return' will occur in our time..."

originally posted by: gription
a reply to: Marduk

You can quote any source you like. The data trends towards a glacial impact. Show me your data.

If you read the report, the initial data and theories were based on findings from one site. When the authors of this report (geologists) checked that site (and many others) they found no supporting data.

In other words, the data that the original Younger Dryas theory was formulated from was flawed from the start.

This new report is a very accurate geological perspective which finds NO primary or corroborating evidence to support it. In very simple terms though, the "nanodiamonds" originally found which supported the original hypothesis are not actually nanodiamonds and any geologist would have recognised that.

originally posted by: SyxPak
a reply to: Marduk

WOW! From Your link here is, in part, this!;

His response to this paper was to claim that there is an ideological battle going on and that basically Daulton is wrong. So that's a journalist saying the geology which at no point has he been involved in testing is flawed. Won't consider the original geology was wrong, just the expert refutation. Can we say "in it for the money, not the facts"

a reply to: Marduk

Sadly Yes it appears that , " Can we say "in it for the money, not the facts" " seems to be the way...
Money sucks. A lot of the time it seems to Frak everything up! As seen here!
Plus;
I doubt if there would be many wars if all that was to be gained was a pile of sammiches, instead of a pile of Cash!

Ok, it appears i misled - he is a physicist not a geologist. However, here is a link to an article about Daulton explaining his findings.

Clovis culture, ice age mega fauna weren't wiped out by cosmic impact

Here is the original paper

a reply to: Marduk

Here is the second paper by Daulton , Pinter and Scott;

www.dropbox.com...

ABSTRACT: Fluvial sequences from the late Pleistocene to the Holocene are exposed in Arlington Canyon, Santa
Rosa Island, Northern Channel Islands, California, USA, including one outcrop that features centrally in the
controversial hypothesis of an extra-terrestrial impact at the onset of the Younger Dryas. The fluvial sequence in
Arlington Canyon contains a significant quantity and range of organic material, much of which has been charred.
The purpose of this study was to systematically describe the key outcrop of the Arlington sequence, provide new
radiocarbon age control and analyse organic material in the Arlington sediments within a rigorous palaeobotanical
and palaeo-charcoal context. These analyses provide a test of previous claims for catastrophic impact-induced fire
in Arlington Canyon. Carbonaceous spherular materials were identified as predominantly fungal sclerotia; ‘carbon
elongates’ are predominantly arthropod coprolites, including termite frass. ‘Glassy carbon’ formed from the
precipitation of tars during charcoalification. None of these materials indicate high-temperature formation or
combustion. Charcoal and other materials in Arlington Canyon document widespread and frequent fires both
before and after the onset of the Younger Dryas, recording predominantly low-temperature surface fires. In
summary, we find no evidence in Arlington Canyon for an extra-terrestrial impact or catastrophic impact-induced
fire.

I have been wainting for a professional response to the OP paper, because this groups previous work, which this is really just a rehash of and offers nothing new, was criticized for somewhat sloppy work.



This team is being disingenuous in saying that nano diamonds have not been found in YDB layers, they have by a half dozen independant research groups from institutions worldwide.


Another thing i just love is how the Daulton gang can say with a straight face that carbonaecous sphereules from widely separated locations(mexico, peru, california, new mexico, ohio, pennsylvania, the netherlands) and vastly different environments( coastal temperate redwood rainforest, impossibly arid high desert, woodlands and coastal dunes) would harbor the exact same species of fungus.


Hancock has one thing right, there is a dogmatic debate in this field, which is in rarified air all ready, that is approching the clovisfirst/preclovis levels. I fact some of the very same players are in both debates, with the clovis firsters all on the no mimpact side, Holliday and Pinter are the twon that come to mind right off.
Pinter spent a great deal of effort arguing that certain fire site, now widely recognized as man made hearths on santa rosa island, were natural fires and not the product of an early habitation. Now he argues that fires that produced hi temp melt products(requireing temps higher than can be produced by any natural fire) were produced by regular seasonal burning.
Fires that got so hot as to burn redwood trees to charcoal all the way into the roots. Thats pretty impressive seeing as how redwoods are naturally fire resistant, although they can be killed and severley damaged by fire it is almost unheard of for them to burn to the ground.

So, IMO this lates set of papers is NOT the end of the discussion.

At least one critical author has changed their tune somewhat in Andonikov & Van Hoesel et al,2016

www.dropbox.com...


I would be glad to discuss with anyone willing to read the literature, and i have most of the published literature and am more than willing to share, so others can make an informed opinion of their own.3




BTW, what does Grahmm Asshat have to do with anything, he has glaumed on to the subject in order to lend credability to his early advanced lost civ. hogwash.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
This team is being disingenuous in saying that nano diamonds have not been found in YDB layers, they have by a half dozen independant research groups from institutions worldwide.

That was then, now a better expert has shown that those teams didn't know what they were looking at, and that was the last of the proposed evidence that still stood
now there's nothing left to base the claim on...

So, IMO this lates set of papers is NOT the end of the discussion.

and isn't it interesting how your opinion doesn't change even slightly no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, like right now, when the evidence is overwhelming that there was no Clovis comet, oh yes, sorry, we're not allowed to call it the Clovis comet anymore are we since it was proven that it had zero impact on Clovis culture, laughable, really , just complete pseudoscience and you can't see it
Now
Are you going to post an actual paper that debunks "Daultons gang", or just keep relying on the years old crap that has been debunked already many times, backed up by your unqualified opinion. You're like a kid who's just been told Santa isn't real..
WAAH waaah waah.
Ridiculous approach to science...

BTW, that Asshat Graham is on your side, probably a good idea not to piss on that fire just yet when you have nothing else to rely on whatsoever

So like I said, if anyone wants to have an intelligent discussion on the subject I am more than willing, and again am willing to provide any lit. on the subject i have tucked away, both pro and con, so people can make their own descion.

And since member Marduk is is not interested in any opinion that differs from his own, I'll will comment on the post but not respond to Marduk unless he brings something more substantive other than feeble attempts at being insulting.


My responses will be limited and off and on over the next few days as my mobile is down(its also my internetwebs portal at home).

Black mats



Research published in 2012 has shown that the so-called "black mats" are easily explained by typical earth processes in wetland environments. The study of black mats, that are common in prehistorical wetland deposits which represent shallow marshlands, that were from 6000 to 40,000 years ago in the southwestern USA and Atacama Desert in Chile, showed elevated concentrations of iridium and magnetic sediments, magnetic spherules and titanomagnetite grains. It was suggested that because these markers are found within or at the base of black mats, irrespective of age or location, suggests that these markers arise from processes common to wetland systems, and probably not as a result of catastrophic bolide impacts

Not so fast there Marduk, might help to actually read the lit on the subject.

Impacted black mat sediment is present in the
WesternAlps, where it is found in surface clast rinds
embedded in LG moraine/rockfall sediment and in
paleosols of the western Alps near Mt Viso on the
French/Italian border. The same black mat deposits
are also found in theAndes, displaying glassy Fe/Crich
spherules and the presence of high fractures and
clast brecciation, complete with melted/quenched
and aerodynamically shaped microtextures. The
evidence at both sites is consistent with the sediment
being the product of cosmic airburst/impact. The
relationship with YD till is indisputable, and 14C
dates associated with the black mat beds in the
Andes, place the impact squarely within the YDB
window.
Evidence of cosmic impact in the Western Alps
occurs both in weathering rinds and within surface
paleosol Ah horizons, all of LG age. We report
finding highly fractured and brecciated weathering
rinds, complete with multiple impact-related channels
filled with melted and contorted grains. These
formed from a highly volatile and viscous mass of
molten material, now welded together into chains
of fused grains and coated with thick opaque
carbon, occasionally revealing the presence of Al
plus Cl considered to be impact-produced glass.
Although the relationship between the YDB and
the YD is still under discussion, it is clear that the
black mat extends to the European Alps, and it is
also clear that the evidence for it is found both in
weathering rinds and in resident grains of Ah paleosol
profiles. At the time of impact these Ah horizons
were likely C or Cox (ox = oxidized) soil horizons
undergoing the initial stage of weathering following
deglaciation. This is the first report of black mat
archival evidence recovered from weathering rinds
and from surface paleosol horizons. The spatial
evidence of deposit juxtaposition (the Alps) and
superposition (the Andes), strongly indicates cause
and effect regarding the black mat as related to the
YD. The geomorphological situation in both localities
is such that ice withdrawal during the Bølling
Allerød was interrupted by a glacial resurgence in
two widely separated interhemispheric areas, both
with indisputable evidence of a cosmic impact. In
the Andes,YDB dated beds were overrun byYD ice
while in the Alps cosmic impacted beds were partially
overrun and buried by YD moraines. It would
seem prudent for other workers to analyze rinds and
paleosols in similar venues in both areas to add to
the database presented here.

Recent Developments in the Analysis of the Black Mat Layer and Cosmic Impact at 12.8 ka


www.researchgate.net...

with over three hundred publications in his field i would say Mr. Mahaney is well qualified.