Secret courts are Un-American

Secret courts are Un-American




This is about open society vs closed.

In other words Terrorism cannot be fostered where an atmosphere of mutual distrust does not already previously exist.


Mike Grouchy

Secret courts are un-American.



Shall we look at the long lineage of secret courts that the NSA has decided to be a part of?

The illicit organization became notorious for its revival of the horrors of the medieval Femegerichte – secret courts – which dealt arbitrary death sentences against Germans who revealed the activities of the 'Black Reichswehr' to the Allied Control Commission.

- The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

Hmmm, secret courts arbitrary.


Mike Grouchy

Hmmmm, secret courts have been used to conceal discrimination.


Mike Grouchy

Document showing King Henry VII sitting in the Star Chamber.

The Star Chamber (Latin: Camera stellata) was an English court of law that sat at the royal Palace of Westminster from the late 15th century until 1641. It was made up of Privy Councillors, as well as common-law judges and supplemented the activities of the common-law and equity courts in both civil and criminal matters. The court was set up to ensure the fair enforcement of laws against prominent people, those so powerful that ordinary courts would never convict them of their crimes. Court sessions were held in secret, with no indictments, and no witnesses. Evidence was presented in writing. Over time it evolved into a political weapon, a symbol of the misuse and abuse of power by the English monarchy and courts.

Hmmmmm, secret courts have evolve into political weapons.


Mike Grouchy

===================================================

fascist clandistocracy

Fascist: a bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade projecting, borne before Roman magistrates as an emblem of official power.

clandestinus -a -um [secret , clandestine]; Adv. clandestino.

===================================================

It's unfortunate too,
as official power is supposed to be with "We The People",
and I can think of nothing more UN-American than secret courts and Judges.

Like the ones presiding over the NSA’s prism operations.

Can we please stop all the NSA bashing?
Believe it or not, the NSA is an integral part of the USA's security, and they are doing a mighty fine job in keeping us safe. Whilst Snowden has revealed a lot about their operations, much of it has been misinterpreted, either by the media or the gullible folks out there. If you think the NSA is out to get you and doing everything in its power to get to know you, you are quite simply wrong. First, the NSA focuses on foreign intelligence work, their work rarely reaches within the US borders. Second, do you have an idea of how many terrorist groups are out there? Insane individuals, fanatical religious groups, Mafia, Drug Cartels (imo the biggest enemy to our safety and well-being) and lastly cyber criminals.
Think for once, you are not and never will be the target of an investigation if you are not part of one of the above mentioned groups/individuals.
I know that many of you would love to see the NSA being disintegrated, but little do you know how often they actually saved and defended out rights, freedoms and lives.


www.abovetopsecret.com... 17337532
posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 06:17 PM

You say that the NSA is "doing a mighty fine job" and that "they keep us safe"...

The Nazi's, the Dean of Harvard, and King Henry VII said the same things.

The NSA is on the wrong side of history.


If the NSA wants to be legit,
they would openly cover and report on how our
American tourists and businessmen were being treated in other countries.
Uploading footage to Youtube, showing businessmen being kidnapped for ransom,
or their family members, showing corrupt police in other countries shaking people
down for bribes.

You know. Actually helping us.


Mike Grouchy

Member xuenchen just posted this.

Surprise: At the End, Obama Administration Gave NSA Broad New Powers

So no only do we have secret courts in America,
but the last administration broadened their powers.


Mike Grouchy

In my opinion the deceivers, or as most know them the secret keepers, have already started to eat each other.

Television viewership has crashed, more people stream shows than watch them, the channels are being sold to infomercials in the off hours, and advertisers are sieging the internet. Political donors are looking for anonymous avenues, and authorities fear internal investigations more than any crime or failure.


Those television channels. The old ones. That actually belong to We The People, but were sold to corporations on the caveat that one hour a night be dedicated to news. When they all went digital. Don't they all require special decoders now? So in effect our own frequencies have been encrypted against us, and we have to pay to see them.

Our goddamn frequencies. Being charged against us. Transmitted by a nation wide network of microwave transmitters, cooking our atmosphere. They are literally eradiating our cities with secrets. High speed digital code, diced up, mixed together, and simulcast twelve conversations deep. But who cares as long as we have 4 bars of signal strength. Right?

And since the telcom companies are a very powerful lobby, have been in bed with the signal service since the war, and controls the waves of communication, hardly does anyone even hear about the great microwave oven our cities have become.

Even our judicial system is more interested in _how_ information was obtained, and if it is admissible than exonerating the innocent.

/sarcasm

But hay who cares about global warming right! It has nothing to do with cell towers, its all the fault of those red necks and their trucks! Who's with me!

/end sarcasm

The dust was still flowing down the streets of New York City that day,
and I thought to myself,
"now, maybe, we will declassify all the intelligence agencies and find out exactly who they have been pissing off and for how long."

Instead they reinvented the word patriot and passed a new book of laws.

About secrecy.

A whole new book of laws. Ready for just that moment. And a lot of publicity to go with it.

And to this day, some talking heads on the media still dare to call conspiracy theorists un-American.

I can think of nothing more unAmerican than secret courts and Judges. Like the ones presiding over the NSA's prism operations.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I'm going to comment before watching the video, just as a personal test to see how consistent I am when I see how the sides stack up.

Secret courts are a terrible idea, unless we're referring to military courts ruling on their own (maybe that doesn't qualify as secret?). I think terrorists should be treated like serial killers at the minimum, but I'm not against measures that protect the court to an extent so the proceeding can move smoothly. I still think there needs to be some public facing info because everybody makes mistakes and it would be a shame to secretly prosecute someone wrongly.

Ok, I'll comment in a second if my view has changed...

POST VIDEO
How was that about secret courts? Sounds like rogue elements within the intelligence community.

PRISM is a secret code name for a program under which the United States National Security Agency (NSA) collects internet communications from at least nine major US internet companies.

wiki / PRISM (surveillance program)

PRISM has secret courts,
where the person being surveilled has zero opportunity to face their accuser, provide a defense, or even have adequate representation.

A PRISM judge could have ruled on one of us, and we would never know it.


If General Flynn was leaked on by a PRISM operation it will remain classified, and beyond open Judicial review.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
PRISM is a secret code name for a program under which the United States National Security Agency (NSA) collects internet communications from at least nine major US internet companies.

wiki / PRISM (surveillance program)

PRISM has secret courts,
where the person being surveilled has zero opportunity to face their accuser, provide a defense, or even have adequate representation.

A PRISM judge could have ruled on one of us, and we would never know it.

If General Flynn was leaked on by a PRISM operation it will remain classified, and beyond open Judicial review.

Ah, I see. That's the rationale behind secret courts. Possible I guess.

The issue I have with this is it takes a leap of faith to assume a secret court would rule on Flynn and execute some kind of action independent of Trumps knowledge, or even Flynn's for that matter.

For them to be acting as a rogue entity seems risky at best. Maybe that's what happened, but I feel like there are probably better explanations for what happened.

America is an open society.

Open courts.

Secret courts are Un-American.

The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by "intelligence" like candy. Very un-American!

twitter/realDonaldTrump

I said it back in 2013, here on ATS

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and again in 2015, here on ATS

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And now President Trump is saying it.




Un-American

World War II
Secrecy posters








A more modern one.

A police officer standing guard outside the unit where the Duchess of Cambridge is giving birth accidentally showed off a confidential briefing note in full view of hundreds of cameras.

pinterest.com / about four years ago

Now the press teaches everyone for us.

Be careful what you say, and who you say it to.

Myself, I can't be bothered. I focus my efforts on saying what I mean, and meaning what I say. If this makes anyone uncomfortable because I'm too open, at least I know I'm being understood.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: swedy13

POST VIDEO
How was that about secret courts? Sounds like rogue elements within the intelligence community.

Thus it begins...






The minimizing.

The blame shifting.

"oh, oh, oh, it was _just_ one bad apple, blah blah blah."



Secret courts made this possible.



Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I didn't mean that as an attack. I just didn't hear anything about secret courts in the video. You are presenting a hypothesis, so it's up to you to provide a case for your claim.

I commented on a post you made right after mine because you clarified where you got the concept of secret courts from. You should respond to that instead.

Neither was I attacking you.

I was complaining about the so-called "Intelligence agencies", and how they dribble out their confessions.



As to the rest.

I don't owe the deep state a goddamn thing.

They have secret courts.

And now, according to your post "it is up to me to provide a case for my claim".

That would be #ing hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that THE GODDAMN COURTS ARE SECRET so I can neither provide a CASE or make a CLAIM.

Very Un-American.


Again.
Not directed at you.
We are standing shoulder to shoulder as I shout at the deep state,
and the secret courts in this country.


They will find themselves "the nobility" on the day we liberate the new "Bastille".


Mike Grouchy

Apparently the deep state is also tapping President Trump's phone calls.


This article was posted on Breitbart.com

EXCLUSIVE - NSA wistleblower: Agency 'Absolutely' Tapping Trump's Calls

William Binney was an architect of the NSA’s surveillance program. He became a famed whistleblower when he resigned on October 31, 2001 after spending more than 30 years with the agency.



Regarding Flynn’s case, Binney stated of the NSA:

If they weren’t behind it, they certainly had the data. Now the difference here is that FBI and CIA have direct access inside the NSA databases. So, they may be able to go directly in there and see that material there. And NSA doesn’t monitor that. They don’t even monitor their own people going into databases.

So, they don’t monitor what CIA and FBI do. And there’s no oversight or attempted oversight by any of the committees or even the FISA court. So, any way you look at it, ultimately the NSA is responsible because they are doing the collection on everybody inside the United States. Phone calls. Emails. All of that stuff.

Four days ago the deep state recommended that if President Trump wants to reinstate the Travel Ban, he should just take his case to the "secret court".

(KTXL) Attorney Ken Rosenfeld is in the studio to talk with Mae and Simone about the latest legal cases in the media.

The “travel ban” arguments in Court were fascinating. As a legal expert, Rosenfeld is puzzled as to why the Administration is even wasting their time in the Circuit Court.

The Government has a “secret” Court that has authority to overrule the Judge in this case. The Court is known as the FISA Court and many have no idea that this Court exists. The Court has more Federal Authority than any Court and it can be argued that its authority exceeds the US Sup Ct.

www.wnd.com...

Breaking news.

Wall Street Journal tries to justify undermining President Trump, while admitting that spy agencies with held information from him.

WSJ: Spies keep intelligence from Donald Trump

Notice that the title of the article calls him Donald, and not President.
The whole thing is full of psychological undermining like that.


Mike Grouchy