Well, I need help circumventing the local government. Need some legal advice

a reply to: deadlyhope


Try talking to them a little, if you keep that attitude towards them you will get nowhere there, like I said, they want people who will work with them, not take over their area. I live in the U.P. I see what these big chain motels have done to the place, they come and go.

Do the people in your area have a hard time finding a job there? Do these businessmen pay their workers a half way decent wage? I have been friends with many small business owners most of my life, most of them lost their businesses because of competition and the competition did not raise wages in the area. Also after the small businesses quit, the jobs lost within three years outmatched the jobs gained by the new superstore.

I can see both sides of the issue here, having seen what these big corporations have done to the local economies of areas.

a reply to: rickymouse



Rodney D has some tips on how to handle the local government.

You gotta grease the politicians for the sudden zoning problems.

Maybe a weekend at the cabin for the guy handling building/zoning. With drinks included and some female entertainment.
Maybe a few secret video recorders.

I don't know.

This thread and this question is proof that the U.S.A. is done.

I've always considered that it was beyond authoritarian for a government to tell you that you can't build on your own land.

I'll be 35 in 2 years and a month. I'm going to make noise, God willing.

I would suggest that you take them head on, tell them outright that you know they all have a stake in the market but that you would like to follow your own dream, too. If you are adding extra cabins to an area that could use a few more but not going to saturate the area then they should not have issues. Don't forget to remind them that it will bring more tax revenue in as well as give folks that make it their destination another way to spend money in their town. Indirectly, they will benefit from this.

As far as the land buying goes, you could try to purchase the land with a contingency on the sale that your zoning and use permits get approved prior to closing. Depending on who owns the land you seek, you may get a little help from them if they are connected in business with the right channels.

Good Luck!

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BlueAjah

I have not - I actually don't own land there yet, I want to, though.

But it seems a bad investment idea to buy first, ask later...

And it seems like a very likely "No" to ask first, buy later...

Based on the experience of my cousins, who simply wanted to expand an existing business ( 13 cabins turn into 20 )

originally posted by: deadlyhope
So, I live in a very high tourism area and the local government is a thorn in the side.

They make attempts to stop people from creating more business in the area, including even renting their own house as a vacation rental.

My cousins actually had to sue the locals to be able to expand their business - The town board all own businesses themselves, and they don't want competition.

I'm wondering if I could reference the outcome of that lawsuit and be able to possibly start a business myself on this premise, or would have to possibly file another lawsuit? ( which I really don't want to do ) Or if anyone knows any clauses or laws that help a person be able to do as they please with their own property - or are we really at the mercy of the stick-up-their-asses local board who wants to thwart the competition through Bureaucracy?

Mainly I either want to build some cabins to rent out, or buy/build a house to rent out. I believe this to be my best bet at supporting my family, as we live in an area in which a huge amount of the money comes from tourism.

I guess you have to try to see both sides of the issue.

Areas have building regulations for a reason. It is one thing to do as you please on your own property, but there is a fine line where it can also affect your neighbors. Unless you are in a situation where you are on 50 acres in the middle of nowhere, you are likely going to need to get the buy in from the local powers that be.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
This thread and this question is proof that the U.S.A. is done.

I've always considered that it was beyond authoritarian for a government to tell you that you can't build on your own land.

I'll be 35 in 2 years and a month. I'm going to make noise, God willing.

When you live in a community, there is a responsibility of the community leaders to make sure that things are for the best interest of the majority of people in the community. You can't have too much competition making it so nobody makes money and workers can't get a decent wage because of competition. The tide can turn the other way too, the business owners make monopolies. It all depends on the business owners contribution to the local community. If they are creating a lot of jobs, and paying decent wages with decent work conditions it is good for the community.

No, if you own your land you should not always be able to do what you want with it. Why, because you do not own land in America, the government is the real owner. Just don't pay your taxes for four years and see what happens. There are procedures and regulations most times for a reason. Often competition is good, but if it gets to where the money is just subtracted from the community, then it is not good. That is why I would rather see a mix of different kinds of businesses in the community and not many big stores replacing small stores.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
This thread and this question is proof that the U.S.A. is done.

I've always considered that it was beyond authoritarian for a government to tell you that you can't build on your own land.

I'll be 35 in 2 years and a month. I'm going to make noise, God willing.

When you live in a community, there is a responsibility of the community leaders to make sure that things are for the best interest of the majority of people in the community. You can't have too much competition making it so nobody makes money and workers can't get a decent wage because of competition. The tide can turn the other way too, the business owners make monopolies. It all depends on the business owners contribution to the local community. If they are creating a lot of jobs, and paying decent wages with decent work conditions it is good for the community.

No, if you own your land you should not always be able to do what you want with it. Why, because you do not own land in America, the government is the real owner. Just don't pay your taxes for four years and see what happens. There are procedures and regulations most times for a reason. Often competition is good, but if it gets to where the money is just subtracted from the community, then it is not good. That is why I would rather see a mix of different kinds of businesses in the community and not many big stores replacing small stores.

And a conservative turns communist.

No.

Business owners can't make monopolies unless everyone wants what they offer. That's the fault of desire.

If I want to build a second home on my land, it's not your business. If it's an armory, then you should be prepared.

The government claims to own that which belongs to people, but then they should be responsible for the bills. Pay me for mowing the grass and keeping the house and then you might have a point.

Until then, back off. And even then, back off.

I am just curious, if you are seeking to purchase a home/property in a residential zone? If that is the case, often it is the actual residents in that area who do NOT want their neighborhood disrupted by temporary renters who don't fully appreciate their neighborhood. Nor during off season, having empty homes beckoning to undesirables coming into their neighborhoods to break and enter into these rental properties.

Don't assume it is just the board members, there may have been neighborhood initiatives that had passed to ensure that the real year round residents can have a viable community for their families.

There is no sense paying for anything that other people have a say in.

So I gave the town office a call, just to look into things - The main place where business can be done is absolutely packed, I don't think there's one piece of land for sale. On the other hand, the lady was rather chatty and didn't mind giving me the number of a guy who had been wanting to sell some land in an area a little bit out of town they are considering making into a commercial zone - So, I guess I might follow this where it goes.

The land is pretty cheap and has all the utilities to it already.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Yes, I was thinking of a residential zone and after talking with the lady from the town office, I understand a little more.

It's possible they are willing to make an area outside of the neighborhoods a commercial zone, and I could get in on that.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
This thread and this question is proof that the U.S.A. is done.

I've always considered that it was beyond authoritarian for a government to tell you that you can't build on your own land.

I'll be 35 in 2 years and a month. I'm going to make noise, God willing.

When you live in a community, there is a responsibility of the community leaders to make sure that things are for the best interest of the majority of people in the community. You can't have too much competition making it so nobody makes money and workers can't get a decent wage because of competition. The tide can turn the other way too, the business owners make monopolies. It all depends on the business owners contribution to the local community. If they are creating a lot of jobs, and paying decent wages with decent work conditions it is good for the community.

No, if you own your land you should not always be able to do what you want with it. Why, because you do not own land in America, the government is the real owner. Just don't pay your taxes for four years and see what happens. There are procedures and regulations most times for a reason. Often competition is good, but if it gets to where the money is just subtracted from the community, then it is not good. That is why I would rather see a mix of different kinds of businesses in the community and not many big stores replacing small stores.

And a conservative turns communist.

No.

Business owners can't make monopolies unless everyone wants what they offer. That's the fault of desire.

If I want to build a second home on my land, it's not your business. If it's an armory, then you should be prepared.

The government claims to own that which belongs to people, but then they should be responsible for the bills. Pay me for mowing the grass and keeping the house and then you might have a point.

Until then, back off. And even then, back off.

If you build a second home on your land here without the proper permits, they can make yourself miserable. There are state regulations governing that. I could build a second home on my other lot, but cannot build one on this lot which is connected to my second lot.

If you tried to build a house on your land and do not follow the law, they can condemn your home and take it away. Even the banks are not supposed to lend money to build without a permit. Go ahead, do what you want, this is one of my expertise, I am a licensed residential builder and knew the inspectors well, they can make your life a living hell if you try to go against them. They will bend over backwards to help people with the right attitude too, giving you information on how to do things.

I'd hate to see anything you build, it would probably be torn down at the taxpayers expense.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
So I gave the town office a call, just to look into things - The main place where business can be done is absolutely packed, I don't think there's one piece of land for sale. On the other hand, the lady was rather chatty and didn't mind giving me the number of a guy who had been wanting to sell some land in an area a little bit out of town they are considering making into a commercial zone - So, I guess I might follow this where it goes.

The land is pretty cheap and has all the utilities to it already.

That sounds like some great inside knowledge.

Getting good utilities is half the battle.

Good Luck

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: DISRAELI

USA - State Of Utah.

Utah? UTAH!?! Who the heck wants to visit Utah??

Sorry OP, I couldn't resist and mean no disrespect. I can't say that wasn't my first thought though. Other than people who like to look at rocks or those who want to see what Mormons are like for some reason, I don't know why one would visit.

Other than that, my experience with high tourist locations(Myrtle Beach) would indicate you're fighting a losing battle as long as you stick to the main city areas, which is, of course, vital to profiting from tourism. The town board you speak of is quite possibly owned/ran by one or two families. In your case, it could be the church, which is worse.

Either way, they fill their coffers from big money investors and those investors simply will not allow competition to eat at their profits. It's all very corporate and therefore, all very "legal". This is the same kind of thing I heard about from folks in the main Myrtle Beach area.

I would hesitate before pursuing a lawsuit for the one reason that there are ... other ways.. for them to stop competition in the area. So even if you succeed in your goal, they may find a way to make you sorry you did later on.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: seasonal

So, that work has already been done, kinda.

My cousins sued them to be able to build more cabins - I'm wondering if that lawsuit could be referenced and used against them, or if a whole new case is likely to be required? ( I don't know anything about legal matters )

The other suit would not be res judicata but, depending on a lot of things, might act to collaterally estopp the town. You need a lawyer in Utah, not a bunch of conspiracy posters on a website.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
There is no sense paying for anything that other people have a say in.

The flip side to that is that there's not much point in me spending a ton of money on property and renovating an old home only to have my neighbor decide to turn his yard into a cesspool by filling it with broke down cars or some other eyesore that has a negative impact on my own property value. People seem to forget that their personal rights often cease once they encroach upon the rights of others. Trust me, you'll change our mind when someone purchases property adjoining yours with zero regard for the improvements you've done to your own home and property.


If you don't believe me, purchase a few acres and then go in front of the Town of Ballston and try to get your zoning changed. It's not going to happen unless your old money from Saratoga.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
So, I live in a very high tourism area and the local government is a thorn in the side.

If you can afford what you suggest, you could afford a lawyer to guide you.
Perhaps the laws are to keep the town from being trashed/trailerparked by everyone who wants to open a McDonalds, and rent out their converted garage?

a reply to: gottaknow

Lol,

Grand Canyon
Bryce Canyon
Arches
Capitol Reef
Canyonlands
Zions.....

There's many national and state parks here, not to mention it borders the Grand Canyon - Known as one of the "Seven natural wonders of the world "

Plenty of reasons to come here.

I happened to find a little area outside of the town, somewhere that might be turned into commercial zoning. I kinda like it and will have to see how things pan out.

a reply to: namelesss

I cannot afford what I suggest.

A vacation rental/house would be more simple because I don't have a mortgage loan yet, and I have a way to rent cheap in the area.

Cabins/Other forms of hospitality would require investors - Which I do have family members that have done so before.

A word of warning.
Don't put all this on the web.
Opposing counsel probably have it all by now and will use it against you.


Buck