Rethinking Ancient Egypt - On Cataclysms, Ancient Technology and Identity Theft

Despite the existing theories related to the construction of the pyramids and other megalithic structures in Egypt, why is it that we sometimes feel that a crucial part of our history is still shrouded in mystery and has yet to be uncovered? I recently came across a video that attempts to explore this issue and as far as I know it hasn't been posted on ATS before, so here it goes:

Alex Mott visits Egypt, researching the pyramids and claims of ancient technology. The Darwinian theory of linear evolution struggles to accommodate some of these artefacts and human history - it needs rethinking.

The video essentially discusses the following main topics:
- Use of tools (potentially power tools) and stoneworking methods in ancient Egypt
- Questioning the origin of some of the hieroglyphs/cartouches found on artifacts
- Ancient cataclysm: did a major catastrophe cause the fall of megalithic cultures in the remote past?

The style is similar to "Secrets of the Egyptian Pyramids" which had been posted in various threads before, but goes into detail regarding the above mentioned issues to provide a slightly different angle.

Here go some impressions illustrating some of the mysteries that (according to Alex Mott) require "rethinking":

Various massive drill holes in granite found at different archaeological sites in Egypt:


Identity theft? Cartouche/hieroglyphs carved into older statue:


Serapeum: poorly crafted hieroglyphs vs. superior craftmanship (granite boxes with planar surfaces of extreme precision):



I think it was Brian Foerster who said grafiti/hieroglyphs are proof of "association" not proof of construction. One would think that throughout the dynasties and kingdoms of ancient Egypt the repurposing of older material was not unusual and I think it was Ramses II who had his cartouche carved on many existing statues and artifacts (even though the base material was much older). But who, then, were the original creators of these monuments and masterpieces who didn't need to mark their constructions with glyphs (eg. inside the Great Pyramid)?

Regarding the construction methods: Denys A. Stocks has done a lot to try and prove how some of the marvellous stone structures and artifacts found in Egypt could have been accomplished using contemporary tools of the time, but this still hasn't convinced everyone. Of course the video leaves many questions open, especially the most important one: why haven't we found any direct evidence for a lost advanced civilization that might have existed in Egypt prior to the ancient Egyptians?

Personally, I think the debate about the true origins of our megalithic heritage is far from being settled and I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days something came to light that may shatter our current paradigms. Perhaps via the ScanPyramids project? Or alternative researchers? Or will we even find a "missing link" when we finally dig into the Labyrinth of Hawara? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and thanks a lot for reading up to here...




SOURCES AND LINKS:
------------------------------------------
01. Rethinking Egypt (Video)
02. Secrets of the Pyramids (Video)
03. Denys Stocks: Stoneworking technology in Ancient Egypt
04. List of ancient Egyptian dynasties

originally posted by: jeep3r
Despite the existing theories related to the construction of the pyramids and other megalithic structures in Egypt, why is it that we sometimes feel that a crucial part of our history is still shrouded in mystery and has yet to be uncovered?]

Its called being credulous, for some reason people can't understand how to carve a stone block made of the softest stone available and then stacking them on top of each other...
Because obviously they never tried it themselves and decided to ignore the evidence of archaeologists who have easily shown how it was done...
They fail to see the progress made by the cultures concerned over millennia to get to that point and they always, always fail to realise that mans ancestors started working with stone during the Palaeolithic some 3 million years earlier

3 million years of experience and they can't see how one of the most inefficient buildings of the ancient world could be constructed without power tools, despite the quarries where the rock was known to have come from being filled with broken copper tools


Take a look at a gothic cathedral sometime, you'll be amazed at what skilled workers can really achieve without power tools..

originally posted by: jeep3r
I think it was Brian Foerster who said grafiti/hieroglyphs are proof of "association" not proof of construction.

I think this is spot on. No one has the real answers. Some people speculate. Other people re-wrote history a long time ago.

I believe megalithic construction was something that occurred tens of thousands of years back. I believe there are too many unexplainable/coincidental issues for the archaeologists to have even been in the right ballpark. I think their pride won't allow them to admit mistakes were made.

Considering there's a new textbook required every year for college students, you'd think it'd be okay to update the group-think ... but for some reason they won't do it.

LOL

Thanks for the upload, this subject is something I have not look at for what must be 10 years,

I agree that man could produce some awesome things through history but some of what I have seen truly is beyond belief, that is simply my own view of it nothing more.


Was there ever any more research or information put out regarding the "weathering" of the Sphinx and if it's age was ever thought to be much older than commonly told by egyptologist?. I believe the ball park that people where claiming was around 15000 years?. That would have put climate in the region into a far more wetter and lush environment to help explain the features seen.

There have been a number of books by well known authors that cover or touch the subject matter in the upload well, it is something that has been spoken of for decades.


RA

originally posted by: slider1982

Was there ever any more research or information put out regarding the "weathering" of the Sphinx and if it's age was ever thought to be much older than commonly told by egyptologist?. I believe the ball park that people where claiming was around 15000 years?. That would have put climate in the region into a far more wetter and lush environment to help explain the features seen.

IMO there's a reason why the question of an earlier advanced civilization keeps popping up and it's not because the public gets exposed to series like AA and other non-scientific sources. Megalithic cultures are obviously a global phenomenon and the global link is not being accepted by mainstream science other than that similar stoneworking techniques evolved independently.

Regarding the age of the Sphinx: I don't think this has been investigated any further since Robert Schoch put forth his claims and evidence. Egyptologists and mainstream researchers remain sceptical of his findings. But it would indeed be helpful if other geologists could also take a closer look at that Mokattam formation in order to substantiate (or refute) his claims.

originally posted by: Marduk


Take a look at a gothic cathedral sometime, you'll be amazed at what skilled workers can really achieve without power tools..

My God, isn't that the truth.

I wonder why they used stone .Surely trees would have been more abundant ...easier worked ,moved, fitted and,finished .All of the old growth are gone now where I live but they must of had old growth stands . Immanuel Velikovsky - The Bonds Of The Past Stephen J. Gould and Immanuel Velikovsky Essays in the Continuing Velikovsky Affair immanuelvelikovsky.com...

Also, we know there are pyramids in China and other places. Supposedly these ancient civilizations had no contact. However, there are similar building methods used like the metal bars that held wall stones in place.

I have seen many, many documentaries and it is fascinating. Personally I believe there was a master stone carving race of people here. The giants spoken of in the bible may explain how some of the stones were moved. But, the coffins the apis bulls were supposedly buried in I have issues with. The lids are something like 7 tons and boxes like 30 tons if I recall correctly. The fact they were brought in through tunnels and then lowered in to the lower resting place is just not logical for man to have done. Why not just keep the same level as the floor. As the narrator suggests it would have taken up to 2,000 people to move them there and there is no room.

To me this is just one example that screams some type of levitation technology where just a few could move these into place. I like the idea of the Egyptians putting their mark on older ruins the came to posses for whatever reason.

Here is something to consider. In Genesis in the bible, before God put man in the garden of eden:

[2:10] A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divides and becomes four branches.
[2:11] The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
[2:12] and the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there.
[2:13] The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Cush.
[2:14] The name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
[2:15] The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it.

Who was over there mining gold before Adam was created? Annunaki? Also, when Adam and Eve's son Cain was banished from Eden he went East to the land of Nod and married a woman and built a city. Where did those people come from if Adam and Eve were the first humans?

I am not trying to get into anything bible, but just pointing out another civilization seemed to be present before man was created. Certainly there are differing opinions on this but if true they could have been from anywhere and built a lot of the megalithic ruins in the region.

Just an idea.

Rethinking is good .

3 milyon years of existence coupled with the state of collective amnesia explains the dilemma almost perfectly.

They were built to broadcast hyper-sonic sound signals a.k.a sonic booms.

Pyramits are Sound-Guns designed to shoot at the firmament .

Opps wrong thread

originally posted by: jeep3r
Despite the existing theories related to the construction of the pyramids and other megalithic structures in Egypt, why is it that we sometimes feel that a crucial part of our history is still shrouded in mystery and has yet to be uncovered?

Because you haven't studied Egyptian history in any depth.

Nor has Alex. There's VAST amounts of material that you cover in an Egyptology course that aren't easily findable on the Internet.

The video essentially discusses the following main topics:
- Use of tools (potentially power tools) and stoneworking methods in ancient Egypt

Which Alex would know about if he actually studied them in depth, along with trade routes and technology of the time. Slayer and Spider and Kanzvelt have all made excellent threads on some of these.

- Questioning the origin of some of the hieroglyphs/cartouches found on artifacts

He really doesn't know much about this. It's clear that he's no expert in artifacts and apparently may not read hieroglyphs well.

- Ancient cataclysm: did a major catastrophe cause the fall of megalithic cultures in the remote past?

Nor does he know anything about geology and apparently his only contact with archaeology is reading about it and not actually going to field school.


In addition, there's a lot of mixing of objects, locations, and dynasties. The Serapeum is from 300 BC - 200 years before Julius Caesar and the same time as the rise of Rome.

Ramesses II is 1200 BC, at the beginning of widespread iron age technology in ancient Egypt - and a thousand years before Caesar and the Serapeum.

A. Thousand. Years. Four times as long as the USA has been in existence. Longer than the time between William the Conqueror and this year.

Looking at the two in perspective, it's as if you were looking at British/Celtic artwork and trying to compare the wonderful precision of something made today with modern machinery and something made at the time of William the Conqueror. Yes, modern tools can cut things more precisely and more smoothly and you can make tinier objects (or lettering) with modern tools. Yes, the hardened copper/bronze tools produced artwork that wasn't the same as the ones produced by iron tools.

This shouldn't surprise anyone.

The drill holes are hard to date and may have been made any time in the past 4,000 years. Some were done in the 1800's by people like Belzoni, trying to drill holes to blast artifacts out of walls and chambers. It's hard to say which ones he's going after... but in any case, they actually had bow drills and were drilling tiny holes in small beads for thousands of years.

In short, you're being sold this by someone who's not telling you the whole history of Egypt, who's mixing things and only things from royal workshops and who is playing fast and loose with evidence and who's leaving out ... a whole library full of material in order to sell you on his cherry-picked notions.

originally posted by: Snarl
Considering there's a new textbook required every year for college students, you'd think it'd be okay to update the group-think ... but for some reason they won't do it.

You probably aren't buying Egyptology textbooks.

I am.

I'm in my junior year of a 4 year degree from the University of Manchester. Yes, the textbooks get updated. Yes we have a number of yearly conferences with new material (I hope to present by my senior year.)

a reply to: Byrd

So are there any controversial parts to your studies or is it just text book ? Any missing gaps from the past filled and any new gaps ? Velikovsky mentions a document that corroborates the plagues of the Bible at the time of the exodus .Is that a real document ? Is Mount Sinai Egypt the Mount Sinai of the Exodus ?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I wonder why they used stone .Surely trees would have been more abundant ...easier worked ,moved, fitted and,finished .All of the old growth are gone now where I live but they must of had old growth stands .

It's a desert. Very small scrubby trees along the Nile. Good wood was only used in the most expensive items and many times wood was used and recarved and recarved again until it was just scraps that then went into the fire.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Byrd

So are there any controversial parts to your studies or is it just text book ? Any missing gaps from the past filled and any new gaps ? Velikovsky mentions a document that corroborates the plagues of the Bible at the time of the exodus .Is that a real document ? Is Mount Sinai Egypt the Mount Sinai of the Exodus ?

There are a lot of questions that are unanswered - I've got two that I'm interested in but there are many more. There are a lot of new discoveries being made each month (to learn about them, you have to be on the Egyptologist mailing list. They announce some of them but American papers don't carry much about Egypt unless someone mentions Tut or Nefertiti.

There's lots of controversial things, but what's controversial isn't the things presented in these videos. The Amarna period (Akhenaten through Tutankamen) - who reigned after who is a big bone of contention and so is the issue of who's related to who. There's disagreements over translations (but not any of the ones shown here) and so forth.

No, there's no document that corroborates the plagues of the Bible during Exodus. Sometimes people try to turn the Tempest Stele into proof and other times they use other documents describing the plague. The only match between them and the Bible is that someone is mentioning a contagious illness in the land.

Jews really didn't enter in any numbers at all until after the era of the Hyksos. They were far more common in the New Kingdom (though as craftsmen and not slaves), but most of them lived in Egypt during the time of the Ptolemys (300 AD)

There isn't a Mount Sinai in Egypt.

a reply to: Byrd

It's a desert

Yes today it is ...Isnt there prof that it was not always a desert ? Where I live today is nothing like it was 10,000 years ago .There was 2 to 3 miles thick ice here . I wonder what put it here and what took it away . Did climate change or was that just local weather ?

a reply to: Byrd

In the vid above I posted at the 14:14 mark he mentions the document .Give its location and name . Are you saying that this document does not exist ? And how do you account for this Har Sinai‎), also known as Mount Horeb or Gabal Musa, is a mountain in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt that is a possible location of the biblical Mount Sinai. ... According to Jewish, Christian, and Islamic tradition, the biblical Mount Sinai was the place where Moses received the Ten Commandments.
Mount Sinai - Wikipedia I hear they even have a gift shop :>)

this thread is quite a hoot for ignoring scientific fact

how do you explain this

journals.uair.arizona.edu...

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Byrd

In the vid above I posted at the 14:14 mark he mentions the document .Give its location and name .

At 14:14 (when I look at it) he's looking at the exterior of a black granite sarcophagus in the Serapeum and doesn't seem to be able to read the hieroglyphs... and does not mention a document at all.

Are you saying that this document does not exist ?

Right now, I'm saying that the video doesn't talk about it at 14:14. Perhaps you could help me out and transcribe the name and location when you find it?

And how do you account for this Har Sinai‎), also known as Mount Horeb or Gabal Musa, is a mountain in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt that is a possible location of the biblical Mount Sinai. ... According to Jewish, Christian, and Islamic tradition, the biblical Mount Sinai was the place where Moses received the Ten Commandments.
Mount Sinai - Wikipedia I hear they even have a gift shop :>)

As a scholar, I'm aware that the identification was made before 100 BC... but there's some debate about how much earlier than that. Biblical evidence is inconclusive and the term may have been applied to more than one mountain. I'm not a Biblical scholar, though.

As to its being in Egypt... that depends on what time period you're talking about. Egypt traded with the Sinai peninsula but didn't acquire it as territory until the New Kingdom... and lost it, too.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Byrd

It's a desert

Yes today it is ...Isnt there prof that it was not always a desert ? Where I live today is nothing like it was 10,000 years ago .There was 2 to 3 miles thick ice here . I wonder what put it here and what took it away . Did climate change or was that just local weather ?

Gradual desertification of the Sahara occurred after the end of the Ice Age (10,000 BC) and by 5,000 BC it was pretty much solid desert out there. And yes, t was climate change.