the british military

It was a defeat... so admitted by the president himself

I'd say they're both pretty powerful:

For technology and sheer size: America - Navy/Infantry/Fire Power
For ground combat and special ops: UK - marines/SAS.

Also I wouldn't really compare both countries anymore. I mean we work together a hell of a lot more now - I'd even go as far as to say we could be 'one army'. Because when we are together, we're extremely powerful - which gets the job done. Something I really admire about the British and the Americans working together.

Originally posted by Lucretius
hmm... pearl harbour is springing to mind

right...docked ships caught by surprise by japanese aircraft you call a lost battle even though no japanese plane survived?

Training america has a good level, same with britain has a good tech too.
Mind you the US is ahead in some areas but we are ahead in others, america has the only active stealth aircraft in the world, where we have the first stealthy ship.
The US has the fastest jet in the world , we have the fastest helicopter in the world.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Lucretius
hmm... pearl harbour is springing to mind

right...docked ships caught by surprise by japanese aircraft you call a lost battle even though no japanese plane survived?

yes... in the same way the british sank the spanish armada...

supprise is a tactic of war

And you got your facts wrong... only twenty-nine Japanese planes were brought down out of 353 (183 in the first wave and 170 in the second)

Japan didn't "surprise-attack" the United States; the gov't most likely knew that Japan was going to attack the U.S., which logically would be the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, and even if for some reason they were too stupid to know that, they knew that an attack from Japan was probably imminent. They had broken the Japanese code, but also the Japanese directly warned the United States of their coming. They were even shocked that there were no planes over Pearl Harbor to defend it.

As for defeats, Pearl Harbor wasn't really a "naval battle," it was more of a massacre. Only a few U.S. planes managed to get into the air to fight the Japanese planes, and there were no ships involved directly with the fighting from the American side. The Battle of Midway, that was a naval battle.

Originally posted by matlo noss

Originally posted by Cjwinnit


Bah. Couldn't you have got a pretty picture of a Type 22 setting off a few Sea Darts?

And HERESY! The Eurofighter doesn't exist, it's a trick conjured up by the stonecutters

type 42s for the sea wolf matey and by the way american friends, the Royal Navy hasnt lost a major engagement in about 300 years. yes i was in RN so im biast but the facts stand.

t22's have sea wolf, 42's have upgraded seadart

Also i seem to remember HMS Rodney and HMS Prince of Wales getting a good spanking!!! Hardly call it a great victory.

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
Also i seem to remember HMS Rodney and HMS Prince of Wales getting a good spanking!!! Hardly call it a great victory.

Did they do what they set out to do?
Damage the enemy ship...forgot name......?
Yes, so i would say mission acomplished.
But you have to remember what other navy in the world on accident creates the worlds first stealthly ship?
Also what other navy can force the USS nimitz off course and shout over the loud speaker; "bang your dead"

[edit on 5-2-2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by namehere


the US navy has not lost either in the history of its existence, about the same time span.

we havent lost any ground conflicts since we gave you America either, or correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
Also i seem to remember HMS Rodney and HMS Prince of Wales getting a good spanking!!! Hardly call it a great victory.

Did they do what they set out to do?
Damage the enemy ship...forgot name......?
Yes, so i would say mission acomplished.
But you have to remember what other navy in the world on accident creates the worlds first stealthly ship?
Also what other navy can force the USS nimitz off course and shout over the loud speaker; "bang your dead"

[edit on 5-2-2005 by devilwasp]

December 10th 1941 (3 days after pearl Harbour) they set sail from singapore to destroy a Japanese invasion fleet. Unfortunatly due to a mixture of delusions of invincibility (the RN still believed planes couldnt sink battleships at sea) and a lack of their own air cover (ark Royal was delayed joining the fleet) they were destryed by Japanese bombers a long time before they got anywhere near the invading ships. So NO they did not do what they set out to do.

Exactly what accident creating the worlds first stealth ship are you talking about? If you mean the type 23's there was no accident, the original designs were modified to take into account lessons learnt during the falklands, including angling all the vertical surfaces over to 7 degs from vertical to reduce the radar signature. Even in the early and mid 80's (remember the F117 first flew in 1984 and have blue before that) Stealth was impacting on naval design. In the last few years 2nd generation naval stealth is appearing with the much cleaner flat sided vessel e.g. Type 45 etc.

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
December 10th 1941 (3 days after pearl Harbour) they set sail from singapore to destroy a Japanese invasion fleet. Unfortunatly due to a mixture of delusions of invincibility (the RN still believed planes couldnt sink battleships at sea) and a lack of their own air cover (ark Royal was delayed joining the fleet) they were destryed by Japanese bombers a long time before they got anywhere near the invading ships. So NO they did not do what they set out to do.

Oh, your talking about against the japanese?

I thought you where on about that german ship...bismark...

Well then yeah, that is kind of a big screw up...

Exactly what accident creating the worlds first stealth ship are you talking about? If you mean the type 23's there was no accident, the original designs were modified to take into account lessons learnt during the falklands, including angling all the vertical surfaces over to 7 degs from vertical to reduce the radar signature.

Really?
Wow, cool.

Even in the early and mid 80's (remember the F117 first flew in 1984 and have blue before that) Stealth was impacting on naval design. In the last few years 2nd generation naval stealth is appearing with the much cleaner flat sided vessel e.g. Type 45 etc.

Wow, thanks for the info...

If you think the Type 45's look good you should see the concept design work being done at the moment for ships 15-20 years away!!!!

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
If you think the Type 45's look good you should see the concept design work being done at the moment for ships 15-20 years away!!!!

I thought i seen one in HMS rosyth but acording to one of the people who works in the buisness they arent built yet.....hmm

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
If you think the Type 45's look good you should see the concept design work being done at the moment for ships 15-20 years away!!!!

I thought i seen one in HMS rosyth but acording to one of the people who works in the buisness they arent built yet.....hmm

The first one is currently on the blocks at BAE Systems at Yarrow (Was there last week). Due to be launched either late this year or early next and in service by 2007.

[edit on 5-2-2005 by paperplane_uk]

The US Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines are pretty good. Numbers are endless, technology is almost second to none. Their yearly budget in blank ammunition alone, could keep the UK going for a couple of years.

Professionalism - absolute crap! I've been on exercises with the so called elite US Marines and have seen them fighting harder to get to a PX than achieve an objective in the pouring rain.

When my unit held an exchange with some squids, we went out on patrol with bergens half full [about 60 pounds] and after 200 metres those guys were fcuked and moaning for their 'choppers'! Fcuking crap hats!

'Peace through superior firepower!', 'Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!' are just but two examples of the intelligence of your average US citizen.

UK's Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force are just brilliant. Under-manned, under-paid, ill-equipped, over-worked, badly led and often let down by those who employ them [Hoon take note!]

BUT they manage to get the job done, with the minimum of fuss, with the minimum of casualties, using what little kit they've got at a fraction of the cost to the taxpayer.

OK you could argue that the US has the best of everything but then again, the British Army has never lost a war in modern histrory, whereas the yanks lost Viet Nam.

But b4 u armchair warriors start reaching for your history books, yup! We did loose a few battles in the early days of WWII. But we turned defeat on the battlefield into victory.

We, almost single handedly, destroyed the most powerful air force in the world in just 32 days, above the fields of Kent, Surrey and Sussex in 1940.

That was called the 'Battle of Britain' and now fcuking Hollywood wants to rewrite one of our most famous of victories as being american, just like they highjacked The Great Escape, the capture of the 'enigma machine' and believe it or not, they even rewrote a film script about a Lancaster bomber crew's last mission over Germany. U probably remember watching the 'Memphis Belle'.

Now, in Iraq, we've been called to help pull the yanks out of the siht! And we'll do it to. Not we believe that the war is a just war or that the Bush/Blair double act was right to topple Saddam.

No. We'll get the job done without shouting about it and without making a fuss about it because we are the professionals. Because we're British and we are the best!

Originally posted by fritz
Because we're British and we are the best!

Very well said.
To change the topic, who here thinks that Benedict Arnord is a ignorant Tit?

I do! He's a complete tit! First he creates a thread about Europe not being powerful, and doesnt like the reaction he gets (mainly from Britain) and then has a go at the Britain army saying they are crap!

Sure America has NUMBERS... but Great Britain has better trained Soldiers and Special Forces than American ones, You Ignorant tit

Hang on guys - have I missed something here?

Wasn't he that yank who betrayed his country during the war of indepenance over in the colonies -AND if he is, how come he's learnt how to use a 'puter? Buggar should've been dead for at least a couple of hundred years!

Now I know I'm losing it!

Benedict Arnold can't be a real person - he's a fcuking omlette - isn't he?