NEWS: Forced Prostitution in Germany

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by Narnia
read the following from www.hrw.org, this is why prostitution is illegal:

That trafficing is already happeing in countries where prostitution is illegal.
I've even heard reports of women getting arrested on prostitution charges after trying to get help.

One of the reasons Germany legalized it was to "help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime."

How "enlightened" of you to support the degradation of women there ACE. I am sure your "mother" would be proud. Instead of prosecuting the crimes, they just legalized slavery..................

Originally posted by DrHoracid
How "enlightened" of you to support the degradation of women there ACE. I am sure your "mother" would be proud. Instead of prosecuting the crimes, they just legalized slavery..................

They did not legalize slavery, they legalized prostitution.
Is there a lot of trafficking in Nevada?
Is it higher than in California where it isn't legal?

[edit on 31-1-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by DrHoracid
How "enlightened" of you to support the degradation of women there ACE. I am sure your "mother" would be proud. Instead of prosecuting the crimes, they just legalized slavery..................

They did not legalize slavery, they legalized prostitution.

How naive.....prostitution "is" slavery.............

From reading the article I believe the word forced is not being used correctly. The lady does not have to take the job, she is not being forced to take the job. If she does not accept a job then she will lose unemployment benefits. She has been out of work for a year, therefore must get a job or lose the free money.

Two things here, I find it hard to believe that someone who wants to work cannot find a job in 12 months and I am sure there are many jobs there that are not related to the sex industry. Resturants, pubs and supermarkets to name a few are always looking for staff. I inderstand she is an IT professional and may not be able to find work in that field, but sometimes you have to do a job you do not want to do. What I mean is that I fail to belive the only jobs avaliable are those in the sex industry.

So I do not see how or where she is being forced to work in the sex industry. One has to wonder how she has not managed to get work, job agancies are always advertising for staff. Maybe she does not want to work. Either way she has had 12 months of free money and according to the rules now must get a job. I will say again that I do not believe the only jobs there are within the sex industry.

No one is being forced to do anything they do not want to do.

"After the assassination of three Brazilian Labor Ministry slavery investigators, abolitionists are needed to stand in solidarity with these fallen anti-slavery heroes and urge the government to continue its fight against the thugs holding Brazilians in debt bondage on farms and in forced prostitution (sex slavery)."

ga0.org...

"From the U.N. Study: "When prostitution is justified by religion or culture it is all the more damaging to women. Deuki, sacred prostitution, still found in Nepal, Devadasi, a variant started 1,500 years ago in South India and ritual slavery in Ghana, where trokosi (slaves of God) girls are offered as appeasement to deities, and to sorcerers who use them as sex slaves."

The organizations listed below address these and other issues on E.1. Prostitution & Slavery. Click on the title of an organization to view an abstract of their work and how to contact them. Click on the news and research buttons to check and see if there is additional information on E.1. Prostitution & Slavery"

www.wunrn.com...

DrHoracid while I understand that forced prostitution like you state does exist and is a huge problem, it is not relevant to this thread. In Germany and indeed Holland it is a career option as it may soon be here in the UK. It is not a sex slave trade.

This woman is not being forced into anything as I explained in my above post. She is certainly not being forced into slavery as you suggest.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Kriz_4]

Originally posted by Kriz_4
DrHoracid while I understand that forced prostitution like you state does exist and is a huge problem, it is not relevant to this thread. In Germany and indeed Holland it is a career option as it may soon be here in the UK. It is not a sex slave trade.

This woman is not being forced into anything as I explained in my above post. She is certainly not being forced into slavery as you suggest.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Kriz_4]

There are many ways to "force" prostitution without using a gun. There are socio-economic pressures that "drive" men and women into such acts of personal degradation.

As I said that is irrelevant to this case and indeed to this thread. She was not being forced into anything.

"Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. "

What part of "forced" don't you understand?

She is not being forced, she can choose not to do the job. Being forced suggests she has no choice, she does. I admit in this case it is a bad choice of word usage. I fail to see that she has been unable to find a job in a year, I think this is more a case of someone who does not want to work at all.

So I must ask you, do you know what the meaning of the word forced is? This is purely a case of the reporter of the original article not using correct language to describe events.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Kriz_4]

Originally posted by Kriz_4
She is not being forced, she can choose not to do the job. Being forced suggests she has no choice, she does. I admit in this case it is a bad choice of word usage. I fail to see that she has been unable to find a job in a year, I think this is more a case of someone who does not want to work at all.

So I must ask you, do you know what the meaning of the word forced is? This is purely a case of the reporter of the original article not using correct language to describe events.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Kriz_4]

OK, since you a putting thing into this article that aren't there its my turn.

This woman, "may" have diminished skills, or just damn near any other excuse in the world, but to be given a choice of "take my body" vs living on the street without income, that is being "Forced".

Yes, she could become "homeless" and live under a bridge that is "her" choice. I think that is a prety "barbaric" choice to be made my ones' government.

Kriz4 - By your logic putting a gun to a womams head and telling her to perform oral sex or die is not forcing her either as you are giving her a choice.
However I dont think anyone else would agree.

Europe, in general, seems to have adopted an amoral position in their world view so we should not be surprised. God has said in the Bible that evil and sin in one generation is cursed and punished to the third and fourth generation. Those whose generational pasts include forcing their fellow citizens into death camps, torture, sexual slavery, and other persecutions of every sort have no problem with this whatsoever.

Dr. Horacid is absolutely correct and I completely agree as are others who have commented that pressure is being applied here. Socio-economic pressure from the threat of reduced unemployment benefits with no opportunity to object on moral grounds is a form of pressure being applied. Correct, everyone has a choice. And I also agree that someone putting a gun to someone's head and saying, "do xyz or die" is also giving the victim a choice, but there are many who would consider that a form of force. Granted, the socio-economic form of pressure is a lower magnitude of pressure, but the principle still applies.

It is profound to me that few in Germany can see the large spiritual picture of what is happening here in that they have allowed themselves to follow the curse of the previous generation from the 1940s just as God had said He would do.

Originally posted by managerie
Europe, in general, seems to have adopted an amoral position in their world view so we should not be surprised.

If the US has such higher morals, why are rates of murder, drug use and underage sex higher in the US than in Europe?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Kriz4 - By your logic putting a gun to a womams head and telling her to perform oral sex or die is not forcing her either as you are giving her a choice.
However I dont think anyone else would agree.

How you came to that conclusion and comparason is beyond me and I find it somewhat bizarre. This is a simple case of having recieved free money for a year, she must now find a job. The same rules apply in the UK. Has she been offered other work placements during her 12 month period, without a doubt. Why she did not go for these jobs is anyones guess. The offer of this job and the ending of her free money period are conincidental.

I think that this has just become a case that you and DrHorracid are against prostitution, not that you are looking at the reality of the facts of the case.

If you are not prepared to actually contribute to this thread, rather than make reactionary fatastical accussing statements such as above, than for the sake of rationality I will stop responding to you.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by managerie
Europe, in general, seems to have adopted an amoral position in their world view so we should not be surprised.

If the US has such higher morals, why are rates of murder, drug use and underage sex higher in the US than in Europe?

Actually the US keeps data on the subject, EU doesn't...........

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Actually the US keeps data on the subject, EU doesn't...........

Europe has extensive data on crime.
You're so totally wrong it's amazing.
It's like you're not even familiar with Europe at all to think they don't keep records.

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by managerie
Europe, in general, seems to have adopted an amoral position in their world view so we should not be surprised.

If the US has such higher morals, why are rates of murder, drug use and underage sex higher in the US than in Europe?

Actually the US keeps data on the subject, EU doesn't...........

Oh no, another Europe does this and the US does that statement. Shame on you for responding Ace and Managerie how you came to that conclusion is again mind blowing.

Actually, the EU does keep such records. It is something you constantly see on the TV and in the newspapers.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Actually the US keeps data on the subject, EU doesn't...........

Europe has extensive data on crime.
You're so totally wrong it's amazing.
It's like you're not even familiar with Europe at all to think they don't keep records.

"AFTER HE BEAT an 80-year-old grandmother, took a mother with a stroller hostage, and robbed 11 London banks in broad daylight, Michael Wheatley was finally nabbed by British police late last month. Dubbed the Skull Cracker for his habit of pistol-whipping victims, Wheatley had transfixed the London tabloid press with a series of dramatic, violent crimes. Scared Londoners, however, had more to worry about than just the Skull Cracker: In April alone, one gang used a battering ram to steal $14,500 of merchandise from a jewelry store near the city's commercial center, another took to ramming cars into storefronts, and teenage thugs robbed pedestrians of their mobile phones all over the city. Last year, London saw more serious assaults, armed robberies, and car thefts than New York; 2002 could see London's murder rate exceed the Big Apple's.

The same pattern can be seen throughout Europe--indeed, in much of the developed world. Crime has recently hit record highs in Paris, Madrid, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Toronto, and a host of other major cities. In a 2001 study, the British Home Office (the equivalent of the U.S. Department of Justice) found violent and property crime increased in the late 1990s in every wealthy country except the United States. American property crime rates have been lower than those in Britain, Canada, and France since the early 1990s, and violent crime rates throughout the E.U., Australia, and Canada have recently begun to equal and even surpass those in the United States. Even Sweden, once the epitome of cosmopolitan
socialist prosperity, now has a crime victimization rate 20 percent higher than the United States"

Shame on you for responding Ace and Managerie how you came to that conclusion is again mind blowing.

Actually, in a few years, when I stand before my Lord at the end of my life, after probably being killed for my faith in Jesus in the coming tribulation, there will not be shame on me. My soul is being prepared ... how's yours?