I Propose A New Concept - Time Loops Undergo Evaporation

Time travel is something every physicists love to ponder upon. However, until now physicists were so caught up with the questions of causality (can an effect precede a cause?) and determinism (is fate already written for us?), they forgot an important variable: Quantum Uncertainty principle.

I have reasons to believe that due to quantum mechanics itself, if a person (or even a particle) travels back in time, then the history around him cannot repeat itself exactly the same way.

Here's why. Heisenberg has described how you can't know both the position and momentum of a particle - knowing one would prevent you from knowing about the other.

Now, let's say I decide to measure a particle's property tomorrow at exactly noon. I'd then know its position, which I'd note. Then, let's say I jump in the time machine and go back in time, to tomorrow at 11:59 a.m. - just in time to make another measurement of the same particle at noon. This time I only memorise its momentum. Though its other property cannot be currently known because I measured its momentum, I'd still have the information about its other property from my first time frame measurement. Now I'd know both its position and momentum simultaneously, of the same particle at exactly noon - cheating Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle!

The only way to solve this paradox is by introducing Time Loop Evaporation. Basically, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would make sure that the properties of a particle randomly differs everytime you go back in time, so that you can't cheat and record properties you shouldn't know.

This means that using the Butterfly Effect, it can be demonstrated that a Time Loop (causal chain reaction in which the time traveller is forced to go back in time only to repeat history and ultimately go back in time) will actually evaporate over time. Since physical history is influenced by the particles composing it, then everytime you'll go back in time, the particles composing the reality you see will always become more and more different, until they eventually change the very nature of matter and thus history - which will ultimately break the causality loop. You can think of it as a Thermal Death applied to a Looped Time iteration instead of a Linearly-Timed Universe.

Time Loop Evaporation may actually solve the causality problems some physicists are having with Time Travel. Going back in Time would now basically be equivalent to going into a different Universe (since the particles building it are different at the quantum level), which means that its effects will form a different future, parallel to (and not replacing) your original universe history. In other words, the Grandfather Paradox would now be solved since there would now be two grandfathers, in two different universes - the one you meet by going back in time being different, at the quantum level, from the one who actually generated your lineage.

And this concludes my presentation of my new, Time Loop Evaporation theory.

******


At Time's End,

Swan

originally posted by: swanne


Now, let's say I decide to measure a particle's property tomorrow at exactly noon. I'd then know its position, which I'd note. Then, let's say I jump in the time machine and go back in time, to tomorrow at 11:59 a.m. - just in time to make another measurement of the same particle at noon. This time I only memorise its momentum. Though its other property cannot be currently known because I measured its momentum, I'd still have the information about its other property from my first time frame measurement. Now I'd know both its position and momentum simultaneously, of the same particle at exactly noon - cheating Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle!

This is all assuming that time is constant across all of the universe. If you travel through time here on earth and the other side of the universe experiences a lesser effect of time shift then there is no way to create the exact same universal condition. No paradox? Not sure and I would need a whole lot more time to figure on it.

a reply to: ThoughtIsMadness

Hehe, you've successfully crossed my eyes!

Hehe seriously though: You have a good point, however since time dilation is a property of spacetime itself, and since spacetime permeates all of the universe (some could argue that spacetime itself is the universe, since the latter cannot exist without the former), then time dilation (and therefore travel) will have the same effect on all universes, no matter their position in Time. The only condition for it to work will be the presence of an universe.

I've really enjoyed reading your threads. Thanks for the brain food!

If you quite literally leave your own universe and go into another, doesn't your universe lose energy? Can energy just disappear?

Or are you suggesting the first law of thermodynamics applies to this multiverse as an isolated system? Universes can exchange information but in this exchange the law of conservation of energy can be broken for each particular universe. In which case black holes should be able to destroy information and so on.

Am I understanding it?

a reply to: Kharron

Actually that's a different issue altogether, although thermodynamics may also bring additional proof that Time Loops evaporate. Since entropy always increases, then the body that travels in the time loop will slowly be overcome by entropy (in other words, decay or rust or disintegrate) as its proper time passes by, and eventually become unable to perform time travel.

Wow, you've actually given a pretty good evidence in favour of Time Loop evaporation, thanks!

a reply to: swanne

Glad to help.

One more question, how can entropy affect a time loop when entropy is a product of time?

edit: fun topic, nice change from all my Trump reading.

originally posted by: Kharron

One more question, how can entropy affect a time loop when entropy is a product of time?

Hm, it's pretty simple actually. Imagine you're locked in the TARDIS and she's stuck on a Time Loop. As soon as you reach 2017, the TARDIS malfunctions and brings you back to 1963. Although exterior time seems to have gone backwards, your own watch keeps on going forward; your own body keeps on aging at the same rate as usual, and the TARDIS keeps on getting older too. And at some point, the whole machine will eventually break down. When that happens, the machine can't take you back to 1963 anymore, and you break the loop.

I see what you meant, if you just keep time traveling without upkeep on the machine, you'll eventually get stuck somewhere.

But I meant how would entropy affect the actual act of time travel. Or not actually travel. We imagine it as getting into or onto a machine and traveling, moving forward somehow as we have for millennia. But the act of time travel would most likely be instantaneous. Time is a dimension that we cannot currently traverse. But if we did learn how to traverse it, it would mean we would become unaffected by it. Since we know that we could not NOT be affected by it, it leaves us with time travel being instantaneous.

Something that's instantaneous is unaffected by entropy, since entropy is a construct of time... it needs time to pass in order to have effect.

I'm probably way off, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around it.

originally posted by: Kharron
if you just keep time traveling without upkeep on the machine, you'll eventually get stuck somewhere.

Actually I mean the opposite: if you just keep going through the loop without upkeep on the machine, the machine will break down and you'll stop the loop, since going back in time will become impossible without the machine.

But the act of time travel would most likely be instantaneous.

Based on Einstein's works and on other stuff, I'm able to imagine exactly how time travel (well, at least the kind which is using time dilation) would look like. It would actually look pretty trippy, since your environment would start running backwards, like a movie on rewind, until you reach you destination in space and time - in which case your environment time would resume running normally (like pressing "play" on your movie).

So it would take time to travel through time? Trippy!

originally posted by: swanne
Time travel is something every physicists love to ponder upon. However, until now physicists were so caught up with the questions of causality (can an effect precede a cause?) and determinism (is fate already written for us?), they forgot an important variable: Quantum Uncertainty principle.

I have reasons to believe that due to quantum mechanics itself, if a person (or even a particle) travels back in time, then the history around him cannot repeat itself exactly the same way.

Here's why. Heisenberg has described how you can't know both the position and momentum of a particle - knowing one would prevent you from knowing about the other.

Now, let's say I decide to measure a particle's property tomorrow at exactly noon. I'd then know its position, which I'd note. Then, let's say I jump in the time machine and go back in time, to tomorrow at 11:59 a.m. - just in time to make another measurement of the same particle at noon. This time I only memorise its momentum. Though its other property cannot be currently known because I measured its momentum, I'd still have the information about its other property from my first time frame measurement. Now I'd know both its position and momentum simultaneously, of the same particle at exactly noon - cheating Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle!

The only way to solve this paradox is by introducing Time Loop Evaporation. Basically, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would make sure that the properties of a particle randomly differs everytime you go back in time, so that you can't cheat and record properties you shouldn't know.

This means that using the Butterfly Effect, it can be demonstrated that a Time Loop (causal chain reaction in which the time traveller is forced to go back in time only to repeat history and ultimately go back in time) will actually evaporate over time. Since physical history is influenced by the particles composing it, then everytime you'll go back in time, the particles composing the reality you see will always become more and more different, until they eventually change the very nature of matter and thus history - which will ultimately break the causality loop. You can think of it as a Thermal Death applied to a Looped Time iteration instead of a Linearly-Timed Universe.

Time Loop Evaporation may actually solve the causality problems some physicists are having with Time Travel. Going back in Time would now basically be equivalent to going into a different Universe (since the particles building it are different at the quantum level), which means that its effects will form a different future, parallel to (and not replacing) your original universe history. In other words, the Grandfather Paradox would now be solved since there would now be two grandfathers, in two different universes - the one you meet by going back in time being different, at the quantum level, from the one who actually generated your lineage.

And this concludes my presentation of my new, Time Loop Evaporation theory.

******


At Time's End,

Swan

First time you travel to 11.59 , you have not arrived at the universe you've left ?

Different particle , different universe ?

I once died and SWANNE*s explanation :It would actually look pretty trippy, since your environment would start running backwards, like a movie on rewind, until you reach you destination in space and time - in which case your environment time would resume running normally (like pressing "play" on your movie).

This Is how i experienced it, my life was passing in front of my eyes backwards starting with present time it was crystal clear with sound but like looking like a 8mm, gradually faster while a white dot on my left side became bigger and more like a tube as i closed in on it, but luckily a loud voice in my head told me it was not my time. Snap i was back.

Looking into this quantum mystery it seems harder and more limited to go back in time than forward,
and i see they are proving this in the gyroscopic effect. (less weight)

originally posted by: 23432


First time you travel to 11.59 , you have not arrived at the universe you've left ?

Different particle , different universe ?

Exactly. And how do you know it's different? Simple - the particle has changed its properties. The past is subject to the Uncertainty Principle, therefore time loops never repeat themselves the exact same way, and, thus, the loop eventually breaks.

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: 23432


First time you travel to 11.59 , you have not arrived at the universe you've left ?

Different particle , different universe ?

Exactly. And how do you know it's different? Simple - the particle has changed its properties. The past is subject to the Uncertainty Principle, therefore time loops never repeat themselves the exact same way, and, thus, the loop eventually breaks.

Not to be too pedantic but your first jump is more likely to be judged as a " space " travel as oppose to time " travel" .
Of course space-time used interchangebly would solve it though .