Belief in free will is equivalent to believing in Santa Claus

a reply to: Itisnowagain

YES.

The universe is self organizing omg.

And everything in the universe played a part in my response to you right now, cause everything is connected.

I think people are just resistant to let go of the whole fake accountability thing which is just an excuse to point the finger at others anyhow. I understand because I, too, have struggled with that. I have been very angry. But now I think I understand a little better.

And I do believe that the universe is self organizing in a good way. Even our bodies have systems to fight infection and heal and correct itself, because life is our programmed goal. And our governments and communities and laws are not that unlike the bodies internal defense systems, white blood cells. Working to take out infection and prevent it. And it does feel good to trust the universe in that giant way.

I don't have a problem with the idea that we are thought, literally. Or even that we are our bodies. Literally. There's no separate spirit or soul residing within the body... the body is all there is. And the body is not separate from the universe, either. The body is the universe.

We getting deep af up in here.

Our future is already determined, just like we now know that the dinosaurs went exstincked. That was going to happened no mather What.

We dont have free will because our future is predetermined. There is no way we are going to talk our way out of it.

a reply to: Andy1144

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard. You are discounting the very logical accepted reality of quantum uncertainty. There are structures in the brain called microtubules, and it is now reckoned that these are the sites where 'the magic happens', where aspects of quantum uncertainty manifest in connection with our experience of consciousness. These are sites where DECISIONS are made, based on observable, testable conditions of uncertainty, and it is here that our free will is made manifest DESPITE the otherwise mechanical attributes of our physiological brain processes.

You are clearly self-deluded, and highly self-important & self-effacing. You have nothing of value to add to the schools of philosophical thought, and are the equivalent of an uneducated 'shock jock', desperately clinging to pseudo-theories of your own flawed & lazy, short-sighted devising, which have no inherent value other than to prove your deluded, self-important & rather pathetic attempts to deconstruct the value of human life. *$*%&"!!!

Go away & do some free will-inspired thinking. If you believe you are an automaton,, that instruction should cause your neural circuitry to get stuck in a fallacious logic loop of catastrophic self-destruction, and this will mean that thankfully, you don't make any more automatically idiotic threads on ATS ever again. You are deceiving & misdirecting seekers, and so you should be treated in the harshest terms.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
What thoughts and feelings arise when you read what Stephen Hawking says about free will?

Though we feel that we can choose what we do, our understanding of the molecular basis of biology shows that biological processes are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry and therefore are as determined as the orbits of the planets. Recent experiments in neuroscience support the view that it is our physical brain, following the known laws of science, that determines our actions, and not some agency that exists outside those laws. For example, a study of patients undergoing awake brain surgery found that by electrically stimulating the appropriate regions of the brain, one could create in the patient the desire to move the hand, arm, or foot, or to move the lips and talk. It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion.” “
— Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow, The Grand Design, Bantam Books, New York, 2010, p. 32.
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

You are deceiving & misdirecting seekers, and so you should be treated in the harshest terms.

What is being sought? Are you not seeking for peace of mind?

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: Andy1144

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard. You are discounting the very logical accepted reality of quantum uncertainty. There are structures in the brain called microtubules, and it is now reckoned that these are the sites where 'the magic happens', where aspects of quantum uncertainty manifest in connection with our experience of consciousness. These are sites where DECISIONS are made, based on observable, testable conditions of uncertainty, and it is here that our free will is made manifest DESPITE the otherwise mechanical attributes of our physiological brain processes.

The Orch-OR hypothesis of Penrose and Hameroff is not widely accepted by the relevant scientific community (those that are qualified to consider it). There is no "magic". In fact it has been labelled a "pixie dust" solution, a "fringe theory". Penrose himself happily says that he understands the criticisms and acknowledges it has more holes than a sieve (he is still a very good mathematician/scientist though).

While research shouldn't be discouraged and some of the most basic objections have possibly been overcome recently, it's a bit early to be singing it's praises. You make it sound like a done deal, when it is nothing of the sort.

We already know that humans are capable of making decisions. We do so constantly, but there are other problems if your'e claiming this allows for genuine Libertarian "free will". It doesn't. There is no little "self" in there directing things.

If it were to explain consciousness, that doesn't matter, free will doesn't automatically go along for the ride. You would still need to explain what the causa sui is, how it is immune from all forces of physics and chemistry, and how it works. Quantum woo won't do it. No amount of determinism, indeterminism, nor any mixture of the two can = free will. Introducing quantum effects only makes it worse, even if we overlook that the processes involved are considered magnitudes larger than those that would make quantum effects relevant. Randomness can never be willed, by definition, or it wouldn't be random.

The rest of your post is simply ad hominem and seems unnecessary.

originally posted by: spy66
Our future is already determined, just like we now know that the dinosaurs went exstincked. That was going to happened no mather What.

We dont have free will because our future is predetermined. There is no way we are going to talk our way out of it.

Sounds right. If we were to find the universe isn't entirely predetermined (at the macro level), that doesn't help either. Determined = no free will. Random = no free will.