Belief in free will is equivalent to believing in Santa Claus

a reply to: Itisnowagain

One free will means that there is no control because there is no one separate from the brain processes to be in control. Choices are happening before we are even conscious of them. So this is the free will we lack.

The other free will means that we have the illusion we can do what we want, and we are free to feel that illusion of freedom because on some level it is for functional purposes.

originally posted by: Andy1144
The other free will means that we have the illusion we can do what we want, and we are free to feel that illusion of freedom because on some level it is for functional purposes.

There isn't anyone who has freewill because there isn't anyone!
There is only ever what is happening and no one is doing it - because there isn't anyone.
There is simply what there is.

The illusion is that there is someone. There isn't anyone - so there is no one to have freewill.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes

No one separate from life, all that is happening is being observed under consciousness. No control, just observing. Nothing separate from anything, only in thought. And even thoughts of separation aren't separate.

originally posted by: Andy1144
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes

No one separate from life, all that is happening is being observed under consciousness. No control, just observing. Nothing separate from anything, only in thought. And even thoughts of separation aren't separate.

Really there is nothing being observed and nothing observing - there is just what there is.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Observing and observed are not two, so there is just life being experienced. (By no one)

Just different language pointing to the same truth.

a reply to: Andy1144


What Itisnowagain realy means is that the only thing we ever have is right now. The past is the past. THe future..... well its fiction....we dont know. BUt it will come if we like it or not.

a reply to: Manula

Technically, you can choose to kill everyone you meet, but you can also choose to not kill everyone you meet. It is a choice that each person has to make. See you made a choice to not kill everyone, but you said we don't make such choices.

originally posted by: ConstitutionalPatriot
a reply to: Manula

Technically, you can choose to kill everyone you meet, but you can also choose to not kill everyone you meet. It is a choice that each person has to make. See you made a choice to not kill everyone, but you said we don't make such choices.

To have that Choice you first have to come up With the idea to either kill everyone you meet or not. Cant make a Choice on nothing.

Who came up With the idea? It sure aint you, because you dont controll Your thought.

If Your minds brings it up, you are actually being forced to make a Choice.

a reply to: spy66

I don't think you are really understanding what you are actually saying here. You are saying that every single thing that is decided by you is an idea that is planted in you by another entity. That is not true in several different ways. I already explained about an inventor, so I won't do that again. According to your reasoning, there is not such thing as original thought. If that was the case, we would still be in the same position as a million years ago and that's not true at all. The funny thing is that you don't realize that you are controlling your own thought every time you respond to me. You chose to believe that you don't make your own decisions, but you are doing it right now. You are trying to tell me that we are pre-programmed and we just access what has been pre-planted. When or who pre-planted it?

originally posted by: ConstitutionalPatriot
a reply to: spy66

I don't think you are really understanding what you are actually saying here. You are saying that every single thing that is decided by you is an idea that is planted in you by another entity. That is not true in several different ways. I already explained about an inventor, so I won't do that again. According to your reasoning, there is not such thing as original thought. If that was the case, we would still be in the same position as a million years ago and that's not true at all. The funny thing is that you don't realize that you are controlling your own thought every time you respond to me. You chose to believe that you don't make your own decisions, but you are doing it right now. You are trying to tell me that we are pre-programmed and we just access what has been pre-planted. When or who pre-planted it?

No there is no such thing as Your personal thought. You dont controll what thoughts that enter into Your mind. What you do is that you Select from the thoughts that enters Your mind. You have a free will to Select what matters to you from the thoughts that enters. There is no way you can make a Choice based on anything else.

a reply to: spy66

You just contradicted yourself by saying you select (choose) what thoughts come into your mind. Then you said "You have a free will to Select what matters to you from the thoughts that enters." You can't have both.

originally posted by: ConstitutionalPatriot
a reply to: spy66

You just contradicted yourself by saying you select (choose) what thoughts come into your mind. Then you said "You have a free will to Select what matters to you from the thoughts that enters." You can't have both.

In a few posts abow you stated that we could technically choose to kill everyone we meet. The thing is; it is not true.

No everyone have that Choice. To have that Choice you first have to have the thought. If you dont have the thought, you dont have the Properties present to make a choce if you want to kill everyone you meet on the street. Because it is not on Your mind.

a reply to: spy66

Do you have the thought not to kill someone. Probably not, so your example is insignificant.

originally posted by: ConstitutionalPatriot
a reply to: spy66

Do you have the thought not to kill someone. Probably not, so your example is insignificant.

No it is not. Because Your claime is false. Not even you can walk Down the street at anytime and think about killing everyone or not unless the thought is brought to Your attention. It is only when the thought is brought to Your attention will you have the ability to make a Choice.

This means that technocally you cant freely make the Choice when ever you want.

a reply to: spy66

I give up on this conversation. Every single thing you do except involuntary system function is a choice. You choose to eat what you eat, sleep when you sleep, walk when you walk, and talk when you talk. That is the last thing I am going to say. I choose to end this conversation without the thought being presented to me.

originally posted by: spy66
What you do is that you Select from the thoughts that enters Your mind. You have a free will to Select what matters to you from the thoughts that enters.

There is no chooser and no choice - ever!
There is no one 'in there' that can select.

Did you watch the video?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Is that you on the left?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Did you watch the video?
Any comments?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes I did. It was good, but will you acknowledge that you're the person on the left (it was a joke).

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Btw, I get what you're saying, that everything is an occurrence that's just happening, and that our own experience is just part of that overall occurrence, and thus the idea of a separative self is an illusion of sorts.

Then again, it's nice that there's more than one of us, in order for there to be mutuality, brotherhood, family, friendship, love.

Sometimes you can take this idea a little too far, I think, but it's good to promote the idea of a unitive experience and to let go of the lines that divide and separate.

We are actually a part of one interpenetrating cosmological unity which is an interdependent framework, so at the most fundamental level there is just what is and what's happening, no past or future, no here or there.

Raising awareness is good, but working to annihilate the self, as a free self, isn't helpful I don't think because it's not true that there are no individual persons.