Will the europeans ever be powerful?

Originally posted by Lonestar24-People in general refer to europe as a whole and then several countries in particual just as it fits the needs of their argumentation. Ok I dont claim to understand the subtle details of USA state system either but the view many Americans in here seem to have on europe and particularly the EU, what they think it works like and what it should do and not do shows a decent lack of knowledge of what is going on here.

We do the same here m8, we don't like Massachusetts and probably a few more turdblossom states, you know just like you feel about France.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by benedict arnold
i dont think they ever will. THeir days are over. The british ditched india 60 years ago. The french are busy eating crepes and snails and the germans cant get over sauerkraut. Ok seriously they just cant get project any power nowadays. India could whip the French.

But do you think the europeans wil ever have an important part to play in world affairs in the next 100 years. I got nothing to do so please respond.

HA HA!
OMG man!

Do you know how much of the forces in iraq the british service men and women made up?
1/4th of the forces there.
And britain is one of the smallest forces in the world and in europe.
Europe has the best tech , yes thats right yanks we have equal tech, and better training.

You really have no clue as to what you're talking about, do you?

Britain is in the Top 5 of the world's most powerful countries. And European military technology (with the exception of Britain) is old and obsolete.

Britain has the 2nd biggest force in Iraq. Only the Americans have more soldiers there.

The EU will NEVER be a superpower. At the moment, it's economy is the sick man of the world. It's population is DECLINING (unlike America's), and it's share of the world economy will be SMALLER in 2030 than it is now.

At best, its economy will only be the 4th largest in the world by 2050, after China, the US and India.

And as for it's military power - the less said about that, the better. Britain is the only country in the EU with any significant military power.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Oh please, Europe is still going down hill with a low growth rate. The economy is in the toilet and the EU isn't helping any. Maybe the U.S. isn't that much better off long-term since we have some of our own problems, but Europe certainly isn't going to surpass the U.S. in either military or economic power unless they lose their socialist welfare state mentality.

I agree. It's an economic deadbeat. Britain get the pound, so our economy is booming. The countries that have the Euro are suffering low growth and high unemployment.

The Continental countries also don't seem to want to be militarily power. Germany only spends 1.5% of its GDP on its military. The EU will never be militarily powerful, because its member states seem to like being military impotent, except Britain.

The Greeks even prefer US military fighters over the European competitors. I believe they just bought 40 some odd F-16 over the Eurofighter and Typhoon.

See, the thing I don't get is France has one of the most powerful armed forces in the world. Infact, some of the European powers have on par technology to the US according to their size. Individually though, they just don't have much force projection power. I think they just aren't perceived as "powerful" because they have no need to act out in a major military way. For national defense, however, i'd say most European nations have sufficient capabilites.

Originally posted by Frosty
The Greeks even prefer US military fighters over the European competitors. I believe they just bought 40 some odd F-16 over the Eurofighter and Typhoon.

- Jayzuss wept is this pissing competition still going? :lol

Just so as you know the Greeks bought cheap because they saw no need to buy the high tech Typhoon, for now.
They may return to Typhoon later, apparantly.

(BTW the Typhoon is the Eurofighter; that's its' name.)

Originally posted by AdamB
The EU will NEVER be a superpower. At the moment, it's economy is the sick man of the world.

- Yeah right, the 2nd richest economy in the world is a "sick man of the world" and "dead beat".

And as for it's military power - the less said about that, the better. Britain is the only country in the EU with any significant military power.

- Go look up the world 'league tables' (and see all the European countries near the top of total capability - as opposed to whining about how they won't play the US's ridiculous wang waving one-man arms race).

You really have a hard-on for bashing Europe and blow-harding over Britain and the US at every opportuinity all over the site don't you Adam?
Is that all you come here for?

Reg'd 28/7........is that a sock puppet/troll I see before me?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Naah, I don't think so... But then again remember wich countries have been the most powerful nations... 1900-1945...

AS one and even stand alone the europeans ARE quite powerful..

UK and France MUST figure in the top 5 of any world military ranking..
I gather Germany ain't so bad either..

"Not sure where you're getting your history from, but the most powerful Navy in 1939 was the Royal Navy. For shear power, none came close.

As for your assumptions that the German Navy was powerful, I think you are confusing a few excellent battlecrusiers with an almighty fleet.

Nazi Germany placed no emphasis on building a massive fleet, as it knew it could not compete with the RN.

They made a few great, modern b/cruisers, but they all got sunk or captured in the end. The Germans focused their Naval power on U-Boats, which all got sunk as well. "

@stumason.

You're absolutely right there.

The german surface fleet, although modern and efficient, was small compared to the british home fleet.
Apart from some engagements that turned out pretty well for the german navy (the destruction of the Hood for example) most battleships/heavy cruisers remained at port for the best part of the war.
I'm pretty sure that a 'superior' german surface fleet would've jumped at the chance to take on the Royal Navy head on. They were just told not to because germany couldn't afford to lose to many of their heavy cruisers/battleships and pocket battleships (scharnhorst, gneisenau, bismarck, tirpitz and admiral grafspee to name but a few)

Not really sure about your comment about the german U-boats though.
The germans subs were pretty close to breaking englands back. (food supplies and raw materials shipped from the good ol' USA)


* if you're interested about that part of WO2 consider reading Larry Forresters' The last battle of HMS Glowworm *

"The Greeks even prefer US military fighters over the European competitors. I believe they just bought 40 some odd F-16 over the Eurofighter and Typhoon.
"
@frosty.

You might want to look into some of the reasons why Greece bought F16's.

They already operate F16 fighters...perhaps it's easier using existing infrastructures that have already proven their worth. It might also be a good plan to use the same kind of munition for every fighter you operate.
(eurofighters are equipped with different kinds of missiles, a different caliber munition for the cannon and of course different spare parts)

It would cost Greece a fortune to buy, operate and maintain some 30+ eurofighters. It so much cheaper to buy some planes that you already use than to incorporate a small number of 'other' planes in your inventory.

I'n definitely not saying the F16 and all its variants are bad planes.(F16-J fighter operated by JASDF for example)
On the contrary, they are still formidable planes, but compared to a more advanced eurofighter....hmmm My money is on eurofighter.

Originally posted by AdamB
The EU will NEVER be a superpower. At the moment, it's economy is the sick man of the world. It's population is DECLINING (unlike America's), and it's share of the world economy will be SMALLER in 2030 than it is now.

At best, its economy will only be the 4th largest in the world by 2050, after China, the US and India.

And as for it's military power - the less said about that, the better. Britain is the only country in the EU with any significant military power.

Idiot. None of what you have written is true.

The EU's economy is stronger than that of any country in the world. Germany is the world's 3rd economic power, France the 4th. 4 of EU countries - Germany, France, Italy and GB - belong to the G8.

By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.

Regarding military, the more is said about it, the better. Germany, France and Italy all have a good military (however the US and Israel's military are better). GB does not have a good military.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by AtheiX]

Originally posted by AtheiX
The EU's economy is stronger than that of any country in the world. Germany is the world's 3rd economic power, France the 4th. 4 of EU countries - Germany, France, Italy and GB - belong to the G8.

By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.

Regarding military, the more is said about it, the better. Germany, France and Italy all have a good military (however the US and Israel's military are better). GB does not have a good military.

Would you like to back up the following statements with evidence:
- The EU's economy is stronger than that of any country in the world.
- By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.
- GB does not have a good military.


Thank you very much and have a nice day

[edit on 30-7-2005 by UK Wizard]

Originally posted by UK Wizard

- By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.

- Er, the EU is already the 2nd largest/richest/most powerful economy.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Er, the EU is already the 2nd largest/richest/most powerful economy.

I'm not questioning that fact, I'm questioning whether it will be in 2050, with the rise of India and China.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by UK Wizard

- By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.

- Er, the EU is already the 2nd largest/richest/most powerful economy.

I said that it will be AT LEAST the 2nd largest economy.

I'm questioning whether it will be in 2050, with the rise of India and China.

India has a slower economic growth than the EU. China's economic growth is by far faster than that of the EU, but ours isn't slow either.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by AtheiX]

Originally posted by pantsir
They already operate F16 fighters...perhaps it's easier using existing infrastructures that have already proven their worth.

- True.
It also helps that there is absolutely no credible opposition on the horizon that would require a plane more capable than the F16 for Greece.

(although apparantly the Greeks have said they may look again at Typhoon later at some unspecified date.

the Greek government decided to bring the even more important acquisition of 30 plus ten combat aircraft of the latest-generation type on the agenda of one of the next National Security Council (KYSEA) meetings, which are expected to take place later this year.

EADS is convinced that on one of the forthcoming KYSEA meeting the most modern combat aircraft Eurofighter will be the number one for the HAF, as this aircraft is seen as the perfect weapon system to increase the defence capabilities for Greece. Johann Heitzmann, President and CEO of EADS Military Aircraft, stated that - in contradiction to misleading news agency reports - the decision of the Greek government does not pre-empt anything in terms of an Eurofighter procurement in this country. “In contrary, we and our partners within the programme feel ourselves to be in a very good position, as the European product Eurofighter not only offers unique operational capabilities for the Hellenic Air Force, but also is the key for numerous political and industrial advantages for Greece.” Heitzmann said that the Eurofighter procurement will also strengthen the close link between Athens and its European partners.

www.noticias.info...
)

As is evident across the Typhoon buying and manufacturing countries there is a sizeable opposition to the cost this project entails given that it is unlikely that it will ever go 1 on 1 with anything remotely close to its' capabilities.

IMO the main reason why the manufacturing nations have, quite rightly, persisted with and sustained the Typhoon project is for sound strategic reasons to maintain leading edge research and manufacturing capacity in Europe.

Originally posted by AtheiX
I said that it will be AT LEAST the 2nd largest economy.

Which would mean its either going to be 1st or 2nd, I want the proof...that and the proof for your other statements.

Would you like to back up the following statements with evidence:
- The EU's economy is stronger than that of any country in the world.
- By 2050, the EU will be at least the world's 2nd economic power.
- GB does not have a good military.