Trump to approve Dakota Access Pipeline next week

a reply to: namelesss

Go visit ND and inform us how the wildlife are doing. They seem to be thriving to me. I don't see how these little pumps spread miles apart on existing roadways could possibly be destroying much of anything.

Alternatives are developing, just be patient and don't worry. I would say 20 years to transition, but that won't be a problem.

I'm not going to debate the legality of the pipeline or the potential economic impact. You can't drink oil.

If Trump reverses this order it could result in an outright civil conflict. Obama didn't stop the building of the pipeline until 2 000 veterans showed up to stand with the water protectors. I feel that he didn't want the optics of militarized police and a bunch of veterans trading blows.

I can't see how anyone that perhaps supported the occupation at the Malheure Reserve isn't in support of the water protectors. Government overreach is government overreach. This stuff is effed up:

a reply to: PistolPete

You can't drink oil.

Did you learn this the hard way?

Obama didn't stop the building of the pipeline until 2 000 veterans showed up to stand with the water protectors. I feel that he didn't want the optics of militarized police and a bunch of veterans trading blows.

This new administration will follow the law, it won't be ruled by emotion.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: PistolPete

You can't drink oil.

Did you learn this the hard way?

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Are you insulting me because I have a different opinion than you? lol

This new administration will follow the law,

The Army Corp of Engineers denied their easement. That is the law. Now that he's the Commander and Chief he can change that law. And he will because the CEO of Energy Transfer Partners gave him a bunch of money.

it won't be ruled by emotion.

He's already proven that's not true.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

This is only because those invested in the market are both greedy and stubborn and sadly for the most part are far too greedy to invest in clean energy to replace the need for fossil fuels....

We are not capable of moving to alternative forms of energy as fast as some would like. It's going to take time to transition. You don't think those same 'greedy and stubborn people' would jump in and switch over if it was economical? They are in charge right? They could still generate income no matter what source of energy is developed. It just isn't happening on your timetable so you are angry.

Way to put words in my mouth

I am not angry, i am simply pointing out that the time and energy needed for change are not really in the best interest of those that make the $$$. As you point out they make money either way...

Your point that i replied to is that it is nothing more than shortsightedness that has led us to this point, to argue that we need fossil fuels is as short sighted

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet
a reply to: namelesss

Go visit ND and inform us how the wildlife are doing. They seem to be thriving to me. I don't see how these little pumps spread miles apart on existing roadways could possibly be destroying much of anything.

Alternatives are developing, just be patient and don't worry. I would say 20 years to transition, but that won't be a problem.

Any chance you can elaborate what you mean by to you ?...Have you lived long in the area, what do you do to make yourself aware of the wildlife and their environment in your area ?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Nyiah

Oh my god, has it actually happened? Are Neo and I actually on the same page about something for once? Dear lawd, what strange alternate universe did I wake up in today?

It's actually kind of funny.

I am as far from a tree hugger as one can get.

Someone alert the Mods that Neo's account has been hacked.

On Topic: This does not end well...

It has already been crazy there..

Reporter randomly shot with rubber bullet..for reporting?


Water cannons


They also are using dogs and pepper spray.

a reply to: PistolPete

The Army Corp of Engineers denied their easement.

Have you read the court documents? I have.
9/9/2016
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Conclusion
As it has previously mentioned, this Court does not lightly countenance any depredation of lands that hold significance to the Standing Rock Sioux. Aware of the indignities visited upon the Tribe over the last centuries, the Court scrutinizes the permitting process here with particular care. Having done so, the Court must nonetheless conclude that the Tribe has not demonstrated that an injunction is warranted here. The Court, therefore, will issue a contemporaneous Order denying the Plaintiffs’ Motion for Preliminary Injunction.

but....

Mere minutes after a federal judge declined the Tribe’s request for an injunction to stop construction on the pipeline, the Obama administration made a surprise announcement that it would not permit the project to continue for now.

a reply to: PistolPete

The Army Corp of Engineers denied their easement. That is the law. Now that he's the Commander and Chief he can change that law. And he will because the CEO of Energy Transfer Partners gave him a bunch of money.

You are barking up the wrong tree. This has nothing to do with Trump and any ties he had to DAPL. Look instead at how Warren Buffet, Obama's buddy profits from the rail transport of oil.

It IS their land even the land off of the reservation. This goes back to a court battle in 1980 United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians. The courts sided with the natives but refused to give them their land back and instead forced them to take the money. The natives to this day refuse to accept the money because it basically means they accept payment for land they were forced to be sold out on.

Seriously some of you trump fanatics can see no wrong in the man. I agree with some of his decisions but this is not one of them. Stop being so blinded by fanatacism and cult following and be critical of the man like any other president. Dont let bi partisan politics blind you.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The first and the main issue in the case, was whether Congress transgressed against the separation of powers by directing the Claims Court to reconsider the Sioux claim, this time without regard to res judicata.[22] The Supreme Court concluded Congress could indeed waive res judicata and resurrect an adjudicated claim against the government, under its constitutionally conferred power to "pay the nation's debts," including "moral debts."[23]

The second issue was whether the Sioux had already received just compensation for their land, and the Court affirmed the Claims Court's decision that they never had.[24] The Court recognized a tension between Congress's duty to serve as a benevolent trustee for Indians, and the power to take their land.[25] "Congress can own two hats, but it cannot wear them both at the same time," said the opinion.[26] While reaffirming earlier decisions that Congress has "paramount authority over the property of the Indians," the Court concluded that Congress acts properly only if it "makes a good faith effort to give the Indians the full value of the land," which here it had failed to do.[27] In conclusion the Supreme Court ordered "just compensation to the Sioux Nation, and that obligation, including an award of interest, must now, at last, be paid."

The Sioux have declined to accept the money,[33] because acceptance would legally terminate Sioux demands for return of the Black Hills. The money remains in a Bureau of Indian Affairs account accruing compound interest. As of 24 August 2011 the Sioux interest on their money has compounded to over 1 billion dollars.[34]

The state overeaches, breaks treaties and strong arms the sale of land, I find it odd that suddenly Trumps supposed conservatives would stand by such transgression. Leave the partisan politics behind and realise this is wrong no matter what side of politics your on.

a reply to: unfor54k3n

It IS their land even the land off of the reservation.

It is not their land, they don't get to claim 'wherever the buffalo roamed'. Say, for the sake of arguement, if it is their land, there are provisions in the treaty for eminent domain.

6th. They withdraw all pretence of opposition to the construction of the railroad now being built along the Platte River and westward to the Pacific Ocean, and they will not in future object to the construction of railroads, wagon-roads, mail-stations, or other works of utility or necessity, which may be ordered or permitted by the laws of the United States.

standingrock.org...
That is from Standing Rocks official website, they exist under the Fort Laramie treaty.

IIRC there were TWO treaties, and technically the pipeline is running thru UNCEEDED lands still under dispute. Just because the US says the issue is over and done with doesn't make it so.

Because the Tribe/Nation did not cash that check, no agreement is actually in place.

The reason the oil company can say it's running thru private lands, ignores the fact the people who gave right of way or sold their lands had NO CLEAR TITLE to it to begin with.

Last I saw was in the last judicial judgement it was also stated the evidence put forth by lawyers from the Sioux Nation wasn't inclusive enough so the Judge had no option but to rule in favor FOR NOW in favor of the oil company, it did not say however that no further action would not be entertained by the court.

These are clear and nuanced reasons the whole issue is still ongoing.

a reply to: Caver78

I'm well aware there are two treaties. The first treaty was broken. Both treaties had provisions for eminent domain.
Regardless, this dispute is not about land ownership.
Read the court decision. What part in there says anything about the band disputing who's land the DAPL is on?

1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

The land they are claiming rightfully belongs to them spans 7 States. It's about the size of Texas, I don't see this working out in their favor.

a reply to: Bramble Iceshimmer

Energy independence? This is Canadian oil that will flow through this pipeline. The oil will be refined then shipped back to Canada.

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet
a reply to: namelesss

Go visit ND and inform us how the wildlife are doing. They seem to be thriving to me. I don't see how these little pumps spread miles apart on existing roadways could possibly be destroying much of anything.

Alternatives are developing, just be patient and don't worry. I would say 20 years to transition, but that won't be a problem.

Perhaps it's just me, but those darned pipelines are always making the headlines with spills here and 'accidents' there...
It's a never ending live streaming drama.
Some care about the planet and their progeny, and some care for profit, and some don't care at all.
And some are damned malicious.
I was glad that the protest had resolved just the moment a son hit the road to join them.
Perhaps he'll still get a chance.
(Doesn't Trump own part of the pipeline that he's rubber stamping? Ethics committee? *__- )

I see what's coming, and all is well as far as I am concerned, but there is going to be a lot of pain all over the world.
These 'captains of industry' all coming together like some holy planetary convergence, and dismantling any and every environmental law passed to hold their unbridled greed in some sort of check.
We're 'ass-to-the-wind', now...
Hang On and Stay Tuned! *__-

The obvious solution is force the companies who want to build controversial lines to use hemp crete catchment half-pipe and an water proofing resin like cannabis extract to seal it against the weather and rain.

If we can keep the stoners from scraping it up and smoking it that should run the entire distance of the line and act as a deep catchment system right under the line.



Sensors are cheap and plentiful these days so use them to get to the breaks faster.

That should stop most of the spray and flow and certainly simulations could show the best design parameters.

Everyone wants to go out and cry around about too expensive to be safely implemented!......Too dirty and dangerous to be near our reservation. We have the smartest people in the world in this country and we cannot find a simple solution that is cost effective?

Fine the bastards if they refuse...that's not regulations that's protecting the environment on a budget.

Build a water pipeline....I have lived on reservations and they need water sure but what about the jets flying overhead daily spewing crap down into watersheds and aquifers etc.

Everyone tribes included want to help piss away fuel into the atmosphere for survival and to have a good time in life but that means making sacrifices and finding other ways to do things.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
a reply to: D8Tee

This is great. We need to maximize the use of our natural resources. This and other projects will create jobs, energy independence and help Make America Great Again.

Really, close all national parks and wildlife preserves, screw the animals and the planet and the people and make jobs digging holes all over for oil and destroying our planet for the quick buck ignorant greedy pigs!
Yay!
Help Make Amerikkka..... makes me want to puke!

Do you live in a cave and make a fire to keep warm? OOOOOO, carbon tax!

Kill animals for their pelts with sticks for your clothes? PETA!

So, what do I do now, attempt to give you a lesson in logic and fallacies?
Point out the logical absurdity of your argument?
I haven't the 'right' to point out that 'you' are selfish greedy and ignorant for poisoning the Earth for profit, because I farted this morning, thus adding pollution and greenhouse gasses of my own?!?
That's how you plan to refute the truth that I offer?
Naaaah...

Oh, and if all the elite weren't sucking on our bones, and all that money from the drilling and the subsidies and the cleanups and, and, and... had been spent on research, perhaps we wouldn't be having this conversation, because energy will be Universal and free!

And STFU (silver twinkling fish underwater) to you, too. *__-

Eminent Domain is for Public Benefit not for Private Business.

This isn't for Public Use or Profit but Private Profit.

You're just someone who doesn't mind the idea of Profit being made through lying, dishonoring agreements, bypassing law or regulation, or the suffering of innocent people for Private Greed. Much like your new leader.

a reply to: stabstab

They won't pay for all that crap. Sensors and weed barriers or whatever you said. They don't give a crap about spills man. They have spills all the time but pay the fines do some cleanup pay millions in PR deflection, waste more money in a million other ways and still make more profit than they can spend.

Why would they pay for all that innovated crap and research?? That will just cost more money. They don't want to spend money, but apparently it's still cheaper to pay the fines and spend for clean up and media etc. etc. and it's cheaper than making it secure or they'd have done it already. You don't think they thought about that one???

I mean they have teams of people balancing their books and legal requirements all the time I'm sure they've worked the numbers and know if there is a way to save money. Because they don't care one bit about peoples lives or the environment. Even those who do within the company or share holders can't make a corporation like that just be nice all of a sudden. It's a juggernaut of capitalist greed we've created and let get so massive and so strong you can't stop it.