Tide Pools in California are DEAD!

It's probably hypoxia from all the nitrates in agricultural fertilizers washing down. It happens in the mouth of the Mississippi, the dead zone grows and shrinks depending on the growing season. California is a large agricultural state, but that is only one factor.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

There is also no evidence connecting ocean life die offs to climate change.

Nothing substantial.

We have no idea if the difference in pH from 8.2 to 8.1 or 8.0 or if its a measurement error.

Yeah, we know you don't like data which contradicts your paradigm. See, the thing is, as long as you use the same method the absolute value is irrelevant. It's the trend that is the thing. The trend that ocean CO2 levels are rising. The trend is that ocean pH is falling. The thing is, if CO2 levels rise it is chemistry that pH will fall.

a reply to: Phage

Phage, you're exactly right.

The problem I have with this is a lack of real information. We have no water samples, no sediment samples, no analysis, no local temperature record, no isotope testing, no anything... except two guys talking without saying anything. Well, anything other than El Nino's don't exist.

We can't even really document there's a problem. Apparently there's previous videos that would help with that, but they are mentioned and never included. How would I find these videos?

If there's an issue, and I am not saying there isn't, there is no way to know if the problem is caused by radioactive isotopes, temperature swings, acidification, or ray beams from aliens living on Nibiru hiding in the shadow of Jupiter. I really don't expect expert documentation, but ranting and raving and denying facts instead of trying to include real data doesn't help their cause.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Phage

A 10th of a pH unit (there is not units) is a trend????? A sample from an ocean that covers 73 of the planet is something to rely on?????

I know you like your data.....got any?

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Yes.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

But you will reject it because it does not conform to your paradigm. Too bad.

Maybe it's just a cyclical thing.. like all the Honey Bees dying. People were freaking out over this 4 years ago. But they came back.. didn't they?

a reply to: Phage

Gee everything so simple huh....

I pity these scientists who are very obviously carefully told how to think and how to do everything...ensuring total disaster as it is certainly far too slow and meaningless.....

a reply to: Rezlooper

Personally id be looking closer to home.... i doubt fuku is to blaim

a reply to: Phage

As I suspected, there is natural variability in pH and I submit that there is very very little difference in practical terms. However did sea life manage to continue existing in the past when CO2 was almost 1000 ppm? I don't think a variation from 8.18 to 8.08 over a period of 20 years is significant at all.

You act as if the pH of ocean varied from 8.18 at all, every form of sea life would just roll over an die.

You know that the lowering of pH in the spring is often the signal to sea life that spring has arrived and it is time to start breeding.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Rezlooper

Why isn't this going viral? Why isn't this in the news? Our oceans are dying and no one is paying attention!

Whatever the cause may be... Fukushima or climate change, it's very real and very concerning.

Because most folks are worried about just paying the bills, drinking on off time, watching dancing with the stars and sports. The "Rat Race" has blinders on.

We seem to be a reactionary society instead of a forethought one.

People don't seem to care as long as they have bling, food, alcohol, and sports. Take those 2 of those away and people will start to pay attention, take all of them away and they'll want a war.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly. Or tax them! I've never been one that supports carbon tax. I believe government needs to interact with regulations. It goes against my conservative philosophy, but regardless of what is causing it, climate change is happening and it's changing at a rapid pace... and it does threaten mankind, whether we want to admit it or not. The evidence of this lies right before us and yet, like you point out, we are only worried about our daily selves, not the future.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: rickymouse
I think this is more about the new fire fighting chemicals they have been using to fight the fires, the new more expensive patented chemicals seem to have a worse effect on the fish than the old type. That is what I read in a scientific research article about a year and a half ago.

The large amount of medicines peed out of the people taking them also go into the sewers and these meds are not destroyed by the water treatment plants. They also have an effect on the sea life. They are causing them to do stupid things and wind up dead. The unnatural medicine chemistry is a problem.

I totally agree with you here, Ricky, that these chemicals play a part, but the oceans are very vast and I'm not sure that this could have such a large scale drastic change on the oceans, or this quickly at least. IMO, probably more to do with warming water temps, especially the deeper depths.

The quantity of the sewage going into the ocean is insane, all filled with antidepressants and all sorts of settling chemistry. The sewage plants do not take out nearly as much of these meds as people think, in fact the present systems take out very little. They are working on a way to remove them and have found a viable way but are having a little problem with cost and ability to treat a huge cities waste. You can drink the water leaving the sewer plant they say, but you will get buzzed if you do.

That is totally insane. And very disturbing. There has to be another safer viable option rather than dispose of sewage in the ocean. Unreal. So, the idea is that we think it's only our human waste that goes in, so it was okay to do?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Rezlooper

your fair share

I HATE that phrase.

While we are at it I have some pet projects that you need to help fund...

What a load of crap.

I was just using the phrase to express that this problem involves all of us. It doesn't matter what causes it, because that seems to be what everyone wants to focus the debate on, whether it's manmade or not. My point is, our actions must play a role at this point, regardless of the cause. Putting dangerous and toxic chemicals into our environment surely can't help. I'm not a proponent of taxing anyone. And, at this point, with Trump being elected, I know the United States isn't going to take any action because he doesn't believe in global warming and he is an advocate for oil and gas. So, what next?

a reply to: Rezlooper

What is next Rezlooper is that money now diverted to trying to "prevent" catastrophic anthropogenic climate change and "reducing carbon emissions" can be diverted to reducing real pollution. By real, I mean that carbon dioxide is a normal, integral and necessary component of our environment.

Now we can put money into scrubbing nitrous oxides and sulphurous oxides from our air discharges. We can put money into building more and better sewage treatment plants. We can put money into building reservoirs to meet water demands.

Instead of taxing carbon, we can tax plastic bottles and use the money to proper disposal of plastics etc.

Many of the medicines people take are excreted unchanged in the Urine or poop. They alter the chemistry of our body by blocking or promoting enzymes. They are sort of like catalysts.

They are telling people now not to flush old medicines or to bring them to special disposal sites yet they do not mention too much as to the medicines passing right through us and getting into the sewers where they are not broken down. Some also get participated out by the sewage plant and end up in the Humus they create which gets put into top soil bags and sold to people. They use corexit or other similar chemistries to accomplish this in the sewer plants. Either way these chemistries enter the environment. These medicines do effect the fish and microorganisms in the oceans and lakes.

Those are not the only things that are a problem though, the plastic nano particles they put into cosmetics and the antimicrobials they put into soaps are in no way good for our ecosystem. Back in the sixties, the majority of stuff going into the landfills was paper or metal cans. There was some plastic, but not even close to the amounts we now use. We almost killed the great lakes back then and I do see a need for environmental concern. Right now we are getting toxic algae blooms in one of the great lakes because of all the corn being grown for corn gas. Corn gas is far from environmentally friendly and the soils to do the corn are severely depleted, the glyphosate use is making them so they cannot support anything but GMO. But even the corn cannot grow if it is gmo if the soil is burnt out. My nephew bought a house built on one of these old farms, the dust blowing around from the rest of the burnt out corn field gets on his house, nothing grows there.

With flooding, the dumps chemicals can be brought to the surface and enter the rivers. We have to stop making so much unnatural chemistry and dumping it into the environment, we are ruining it. Trying to fix the mess is much more of a problem than just doing away with the cause. Go to the store and have butchers wrap your steak in some paper. We can recycle that and we do not need to worry about cutting all the trees down.

Some technology has gotten better, we could make all of this work if people just learned not to waste and not to buy things they really do not need. We have to start by fixing our economy so we can learn to live simpler and humans will live symbiotically on this earth for a very long time. We are supposed to take care of this garden of Eden we live on, not trash it.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Rezlooper

What is next Rezlooper is that money now diverted to trying to "prevent" catastrophic anthropogenic climate change and "reducing carbon emissions" can be diverted to reducing real pollution. By real, I mean that carbon dioxide is a normal, integral and necessary component of our environment.

Now we can put money into scrubbing nitrous oxides and sulphurous oxides from our air discharges. We can put money into building more and better sewage treatment plants. We can put money into building reservoirs to meet water demands.

Instead of taxing carbon, we can tax plastic bottles and use the money to proper disposal of plastics etc.

Yep. You're right, we need to scrub these toxins, and taxing plastic bottles is a great idea. But, to ignore carbon dioxide (and methane) and the rapid increase of these gases in our atmosphere as if they aren't causing our temperatures to warm, is not the right approach.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
It's probably hypoxia from all the nitrates in agricultural fertilizers washing down. It happens in the mouth of the Mississippi, the dead zone grows and shrinks depending on the growing season. California is a large agricultural state, but that is only one factor.

Definitely a contributing factor. The dead zone in the Gulf has, on average, grown steadily, and can certainly be contributed to fertilizer run off from the Mississippi River. But, not so sure on the West Coast and their dead zones. Here's a good article associating these dead zones with climate change.

Climate change could mean massive ocean dead zones

Look , everyone just give up and send all your hard earned money to the UN and Al Gore. Once they have every single penny from every single person on earth , climate change will be healed . The earth will live again. And there will be a chicken in every pot. Free drinks for all. Aliens will visit us and bring peace.
Making out my check now....

Why do we always look for one thing to blame for everything? The world is bound to be in trouble when a single species, humans, has been able to multiply in such huge numbers, and pretty much become the dominant species in virtually every habitat you can think of. We have such a vast influence on everything and produce such dangerous waste products, not just the biological side of things!
We kill everything that moves for fun and think we can chuck plastics etc into oceans, landfill etc and DON'T CARE! Until it starts going wrong of course - then the blame game starts!
We are like a bunch of toddlers - loads of ability but not an ounce of sense to go with it!

a reply to: Rezlooper

Tide pools look alive and well in this vid. Along with dumb a$$ tourist who like to poke at sea anemones and torture crabs.


It's not often I find a video that perfectly illustrates my point.

1. It's not as bad as the guy in your Video says. Never take a single perspective as fact.
2. The decline could be from the fact that these pools are very accessible to the public. The pool life takes a beating all summer long from yahoo like these in the video.

Personal perspective:
I grew up with Bette Middler telling me how it used to be and now it's "all my fault" just like the guy in your video did. But...."it's not too late. There still a chance we can bring it back to life.

That is such a load, make up a fear assigns guilt and then provide a way to absolve guilt.

Checkout this lovely piece of Earth Day brainwashing

Edit: Earth Day video has a young Robin Williams. Miss that guy.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Look , everyone just give up and send all your hard earned money to the UN and Al Gore. Once they have every single penny from every single person on earth , climate change will be healed . The earth will live again. And there will be a chicken in every pot. Free drinks for all. Aliens will visit us and bring peace.
Making out my check now....

Glad you said that as clear example because this rejection of the cause of climate change because some solutions involve tax penalties (a weak political solution btw DUH!) is utterly pathetic. The rejection of the science because according to the skeptics they are all funded by government when they are NOT is pathetic. This focussing on Al Gore all the time (and thus politicising climate change) and ignoring the hundreds of thousands of other people around the global across all political views all religions across many scientific disciplines is pathetic.

The evidence mounts but the BS excuses and total denial keeps on coming, were screwed.
The world is dumbing down, were screwed.